Hi
Does anybody have access to a poetic (English) translation of Jozsef Attila's
works? I am specially interested in the poem starting with "Nincsen apam se
anyam, se istenem se hazam".
Udv.
Bahman

From the <a href="news:bit.listserv.hungary"> bit.listserv.hungary </a> 
group, posted by <a href="mailto:"> Charles Vamossy </a>

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

The New York Hungarian House
213 East 82nd Street
(between 2nd and 3rd Avenues)
New York, N.Y.  10028
Office: 212 249-9360 Lobby: 212 650-1974

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------

*  06:00 PM    06/02/95                  RECEPTION 
****************************************

A New York es kornyeke magyar egyhazai es szervezetei szeretettel
meghivjak Ont es csaladjat

L a s z l o   B a l a z s
New York-i Magyar Fokonzul
tiszteletere a Magyar Hazban 1995 Junius 2.-an, penteken este 6 orai
kezdettel rendezett fogadasara.
Koltseg hozzajarulaskent adomanyokat ($10) koszonettel fogadunk.

*********************

The New York area Hungarian religious and civic organizations cordially
invite you and your family to a reception at the Hungarian House honoring

B a l a z s   L a s z l o
Consul General of Hungary in New York

starting at 6 PM, on June 2., 1995.

Contributions ($10) to defray expenses are gratefully accepted.

*******************************************************************
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

*  06:00 PM    06/10/95                 TALK BY B.A. GILMAN (US CONGRESS)
****************************************
The Hungarian House and 
the Hungarian Human Rights Foundation
announce the continuation of the English language lecture series on

Saturday, June 10, 1995 at 6 PM,

entitled

HUNGARY 2000 -- the view from Washington

by

Congressman Benjamin A. Gilman
Chairman of the U.S. House of Representatives
International Relations Committee

Our guest lecturer is uniquely equipped to speak of the U.S. relationship
with Hungary, the Hungarian minorities and Central Europe.  He is a 22 -
year veteran of the United States Congress from the 20th Congressional
District of New York; he has visited Hungary and the region several times
and he takes a deep interest in its peoples, its problems and aspiration.

Contributions to the Hungarian House:  $15 ($10 seniors/students)

*******************************************************************
 

--
personal email,          mailto:
Hungarian-American list, mailto:  
WWW,                       http://www.glue.umd.edu/~gotthard

In article >,  (Bahman Nobandeg
ani) says:
>
>Hi
>Does anybody have access to a poetic (English) translation of Jozsef Attila's
>works? I am specially interested in the poem starting with "Nincsen apam se
>anyam, se istenem se hazam".
>Udv.
>Bahman

The poem you are asking about is in "Hungarian Anthology: 
A Collection of Poems," translated by Joseph Grosz and 
W. Arthur Boggs (Munich: Griff, 1963).

Here's the English translation:

I have no cradle and no pall,
I have no fatherland at all,
I have no parents and no bliss,
I have no lover and no kiss.

For three days I am famishing,
I eat not much nor anything.
My twenty years are sound and hale,
My twenty years are up for sale.

If none would want to have them, well,
Let Satan carry them to hell.
With a faultless heart I will break in,
And I would kill to save my skin.

They'll catch and hang me on a tree,
With blessed earth men cover me;
And then death-bringing grasses start
To grow out of my pretty heart.

The translation is not very good. The translator seems to have been
hell-bent on keeping the rhyme and the rhythm of the original, which
makes for a few awkward expressions.

You may also find translations of other poems by Attila Jozsef
in the old "Hungarian Poetry" published in Sidney, Australia,
in 1955, containing the Watson Kirkconnell translations; a more recent
collection is the "Poems of Attila Jozsef" trans. by Anton
N. Nyerges (Buffalo, NY: Hungarian Cultural Foundation, 1973).

The above translation is the only one I know of of the 
poem you were asking about.

Sincerely,
Steven C. Scheer

Tamas writes:
> Már megint tévéztem, a fene enné meg... 8-| 

> Valamelyik német csatorna egy éjszakai riportmüsorát
> lattam, amiben a kakasviadal elleni harc részsikereiröl 
> számoltak be -- hangsúlyozva azért, hogy még vannak
> problémak..

Well Tamas, that thesis must be tough if you have time to partake in the 
viewing of the feathered entertainment.
Cockfights are not only the domain of the Mexicanos. In the foothill of the 
Appalachians it is also one of the main entertainment forms. You see all 
these "egg" farms with roosters tied to plastic barrels. Once in a while the 
state (it is NOT a federal case) in its infinite wisdom decides that this 
form of gambling competes too much with its various lottery schemes, so it 
raids the competition. Everybody knows that it is going on and once in a 
while, (in the area I am familiar with about every 10 years) they manage to 
organize a raid particularly if the local judge is from the other party. He 
will be put between the rock and hard place, because he will have to uphold 
the law (cockfights are illegal) and in the process get the a large 
percentage of the local voters pissed at him.

My favorite event was when some group decided to rob one of the gambling 
halls. They collected all the cash, valuables, etc., and those who lost the 
money had difficulty explaining where and how the robbery took place.
If you ever come thru Ohio, I will be your host for a cockfight visit. BTW,
if a raid would be televised, please come for the rehearsals also. 

Down in them there hills, TV crews stand out like a sore thumb, not talking 
about them Ninja customed raiders. But I am sure it looks good on European TV

Regards,Jeliko.

PS. How about some chicken paprikash afterwards?

On 26 May 1995, Miklos Prisznyak wrote:

> Rumanians were indeed DAMN greedy. They demanded Hungary's territory 
> AS FAR AS the river Tisa! (including Debrecen!!) 
> (This claim still regularly pops up in some Vatra Rumanesca-inspired minds.)

Nah, it ain't greed.  I would call this, 'Preventive Medicine', a potential
cure for the revisionist delusions of some of your esteemed compatriots.

Who knows, next time Hungary forgets its place in Geography, may be a good
time for downsizing. 'AS FAR AS the river Tisa' looks good to me !

happy revisionism,
mark cristian

> >by the state even if it is against the law of the specific state ( for 
Dan Pop writes:
> >example gambling casinos, fishing/hunting out of season or beyond the 
> >limits, etc.). I have a sneaky suspicion that many Romanians would be very 
> >upset if the Hungarians of TS would request the same treatment and rights 
as 
> >the American Indians are receiving today.

> Not if the Hungarians in TS would live in reservations, specially created
> for them :-)

Isn't that "regional autonomy"?

Regards,Jeliko.

On 26 May 1995, Miklos Prisznyak wrote:

>  Come on, don't be so shy. Those peace-loving, humble and not at all
>  greedy Rumanians should wipe out agressive, expansionist
>  Hungary  entirely so that Hungarians remember their "place in
>  Geography"

However tempting that may look, I don't think that would be wise !
See once we have deleted  Hungary as a state, most of them poor ol'
Hungarians would not hang around, idle, thieving and stateless as their
Gypsie bretren, but may return to reindeer hearding.

Now that is bad, for lack of Hungarians and God forbid Gypsies, we may
start fighting each other Oltenians against brother Moldovan. Like the
unfortunate Serb and Croat.  No, no that is not good !

m. cristian

In > "JELIKO" > writes:

>> >by the state even if it is against the law of the specific state ( for 
>Dan Pop writes:
>> >example gambling casinos, fishing/hunting out of season or beyond the 
>> >limits, etc.). I have a sneaky suspicion that many Romanians would be very 
>> >upset if the Hungarians of TS would request the same treatment and rights 
>as 
>> >the American Indians are receiving today.
>
>> Not if the Hungarians in TS would live in reservations, specially created
>> for them :-)
>
>Isn't that "regional autonomy"?

Would the Hungarians in TS accept this kind of "regional autonomy"?  :-)

Dan
--
Dan Pop
CERN, CN Division
Email:  
Mail:  CERN - PPE, Bat. 31 R-004, CH-1211 Geneve 23, Switzerland

Dear owner of soc.culture.magyar!
How long is the neo-nazi propaganda posting will appear on our list?
Is it posted every day? I am referring to "Auschwits Gas Chamber Fraud".
The publication of such writing is a crime in many countries, e.g.
Germany.
Peter

Dan Pop ) wrote:
: >
: >About greediness, I've heard that Romanians wanted to go as far as 
: >the Tisza river and claiming cities like Debrecen.   Of course, this
: >was too much even for her allies. 
: >
: Now, you're contradicting yourself 

Me?  Contradicting with what?
 
: (not surprizingly for a hate-driven mind :-)  

Causescu's regime must've been good about  brainwashing.  ;-)

: If the borders have been traced by the allies, the Romanian
: "greediness" cannot be held responsible for the result.  They took what
: they were allowed to take.

Because even her allies saw that big part of Romania's claim was 
completely unfounded and was driven by hate, greed, and revenge.

In article >,
Adrian  > wrote:

>I advise these dopeheads who incite the peacefull minded Romanians
>with their view of Hungary as the excited penis ready to expand when
>manually rubbed to tune down their grandious dreams and come back to
>reality.

High culture, Romanian style...  Attaboy!  What a good PR job!

Joe

In article >,
Peter I. Hidas > wrote:
>Dear owner of soc.culture.magyar!

What owner?  Nobody owns s.c.m.  It's like a public bulletin board.

>How long is the neo-nazi propaganda posting will appear on our list?
>Is it posted every day? I am referring to "Auschwits Gas Chamber Fraud".
>The publication of such writing is a crime in many countries, e.g.
>Germany.

In this kind of medium the appearance of such objectionable stuff is
unavoidable.  The alternative would be censorship, a cure worse than the
illness itself.

Joe

>Magyar Oregdiak Szovetseg - Bessenyei Gyorgy Kor
>
>                     Meghivo
>
>
>    Jeszenszky Geza - Magyarorszag 1995-ben  -- 
>             Eselyek es Veszelyek
>                cimu eloadasara
>
>1995. junius 4.-en a Trianoni bekeszerzodes alairasanak 
>    75. evfordulojan, vasarnap 4 orai kezdettel
>
>        RUTGERS STUDENT CENTER, ROOM 411 AB
>        126 College Ave., New Brunswick, NJ
>
>Mindenkit szerettel varunk
>
>Koltseghozzajarulas $6, nyigdijasoknak, diakoknak $4
>

Updated on 5/26/95.

The Boycott is working more companies are canceling their advertising
on the Howard Stern Show every day.  Some examples are The Men’s
Warehouse, California clinical Trials Medical Group, The Cadillac
Dealers of Southern California,  Standard Shoes, Western Bagels, and
the California Clinical Trials Medical Group.  This was reported by the
La Opinion Spanish Language Newspaper in Los Angeles on Saturday May
13, 1995.  Alex Nogales, president of the National Hispanic Media
Coalition was quoted in the newspaper.  Alex has also asked the
community to support the boycott.  For those who are not familiar with
the newspaper La Opinion, it has the largest circulation of any Spanish
Language newspaper in the country.  Its circulation is larger than many
larger city English Language newspapers.

Alex says that Stern taped gunshots during the playing of Selena’s
music (pretty sick person) while she was being buried.  He says Stern
has criticized latinos as ignorant vagabonds and accuses them of having
sex with animals.  He finished by saying that Selena looked good in her
coffin and he would like to have sex with her even though she was dead
(really sick person).  

I am compiling a list of Coward (no misspellings) Stern advertisers for
the purpose of  informing la raza who to boycott.  Hurt Howard Stern
where it counts, in his pocket book!  I obtained these advertisers from
KLSX in Los Angeles.  Although, these advertisers are local
advertisers, you can still boycott them if you live in other areas.  I
call this trickle down boycotting.  Anyway the Stern pendejos get
worried when we get organized.  You know the old strategy, divide and
conquer.  

BTW the number one radio program in Los Angeles is a Spanish language
program that plays banda music.  It airing time is in the morning at
the same time as Howard Stern.  Lagging somewhere near the bottom of
the barrel in ratings is the Howard Stern radio trash program. 

As for you pussies that are threatening me, I am a veteran of the USMC
and it takes more than what you wimps can muster to scare or intimidate
me.  

Sponsors
AIS, Auto Insurance Specialists (800) 772-4AIS
Best Buy
Beverly Hills Teddy Bear
Choice Credit
Intel Corporation  (this one hurts. Cyrix & AMD here we come)
Jeep, Chrysler Corporation
Jewelry Mart
Jiffy Lube, Oil changes, tuneups for autos
Laser Eye Center,  (800) 80-Laser  (call them on there 800 number it’s
their dime.)
Los Angeles Public Auction  (800) 800-3737
Men’s Warehouse Clothing      Canceled advertising on the show
Mitsubishi Autos (Nihon no kuruma)
NGK Spark Plugs (Nihon no spark plug)
Paul Straub Medical Group
Samuel Adams Beer
Second Chance Financial
Standard Shoes        Canceled advertising on the show
TNT cable channel
Valvoline Motor Oil


Mario Araujo in Los Angeles exercising my right to boycott sicko
pendejos like Howard Stern!  Sabes lo que me gusta mas que todo.  Estos
pendejos ponen en sus mensajes insultos a Stern!

Hungarian Dance Performance by Tisza Ensemble  today ( 5/27 Saturday )
at the occasion of World Fest Freedom in Washington, D.C.
13 & 14th Street & Pennsylvania Ave;
exactly at 3:00 PM


--
personal email,          mailto:
Hungarian-American list, mailto:  
WWW,                       http://www.glue.umd.edu/~gotthard

On 27 May 1995  wrote:

> >I advise these dopeheads who incite the peacefull minded Romanians
.....
> High culture, Romanian style...  Attaboy!  What a good PR job!
> Joe

Hungarians and Romanians share many cultural traits.  Part of the Romanian
stile is knowing the lenght of one's nose, a trait that nature did not seem 
to bestow upon Hungarians in general. 
This results in a tendency to crave thy neighbours lands, be it Slovak, 
Romanian, Croat, Serb or Ukranian.

Happily the one's that are agressively pursuing this 'hobby' are a minority
in Hungary, about the same numbers as is Funar's crowd in Romania.

Joe, you should return to Hungary and get elected to Parliament. That would 
be a much better avenue to vent your biased and venomous rantings !

m. cristian

Archive-name: hungarian-faq
Last-modified: 1995/02/19
Version: 0.99.1

This is part 1 of the FAQ for Hungarian news, discussions, and email. 
This part identifies what is available and gives basic instructions for
getting it.  Part 2 gives both fuller information and more complete 
instructions, as well as tips on how to search electronic archives for 
the information stored there.
 
#######################################################################
# NOTE: Part 2 is included together with part 1 for this interim
#  release, expect separate files in the future! 
# New in 0.99: modified parts on gophers, WWW, HIX, Usenet,
#  the network in Hungary and directory services
#  expanded a bit on the accented letter coding
#  deleted the reference to the inactive AGORA
# 0.99.1: HIX got its own WWW site and accessible via finger!
#             OMRI  replaced the RFE/RL report list
#######################################################################
 
Updated versions of these Frequently Asked Questions of Hungarian 
interest (with some answers) are posted to Usenet (and reposted every 
three weeks automatically if there are no changes to them) and 
occasionally to the email lists concerned.
 
NEWS AND DISCUSSION GROUPS
 
-Q: What services are available in Hungarian language?
-A: A number of them from Hollosi Information Exchange. Recently it 
moved onto its own machine: HIX.COM, with the different services 
individually addressable (so please forget about the old XMAIL syntax)! The
services may change before their description get updated here, so
please check its own HELP for the most current description!

There are 9 major services (check  for others!): 
 
  HIR      -- daily news (edited in Budapest) Hirmondo
  KEP      -- videotext news from Hungarian Television's Kepujsag
  SZALON   -- moderated political discussion forum
  FORUM    -- unmoderated political discussion forum
  TIPP     -- politics-free questions, tips etc.
  GURU     -- computer-related questions
  VITA     -- non-political discussion forum (typically longer-winded then TIPP
)
  MOKA     -- jokes, humor (Hungarian and other)
  MOZAIK   -- semi-regular bits of news and other info,
               crossposts from the OMRI list and VoA gopher

 To get a long description (more than 600 lines!), send email to 
 - the content of these letters are ignored. To 
{un}subscribe send email to , which refers to all 
available HIX subscriptions, or to , where NAME 
is any of the applicable HIX services. For more detailed description
please refer to  (for this author cannot hope to stay
up-to-date on the continously changing flavors of HIX ;-)).
 The postings for the HIX discussion lists are sent out daily in 
digested form. You can send your own submission to , 
where again NAME is to be substituted with the actual name of the
service you want to reach. 
 Note that the volume for some of these lists is becoming rather high,
eg. TIPP often digests dozens of messages in hundreds of lines daily! 
You ought to try targeting your audience properly in order to find
those who'd help with your questions; also keep in mind that readers
often answer to the list rather than the individual even when personal
reply is requested, so if you ask something it's a good idea to subscribe
also (even though technically it's not required) instead of just
addressing a list as a non-subscriber. A reminder to those who reply to
a post: always remember that list messages get sent to several
hundred readers, so consider personal email if the subject is not of
general interest! If you answer thru a list it's courteous to send a
personal copy (Cc: with most mailers) as well - this may reach the addressee
considerably earlier than the post distributed thru the list.
 The HIX server can also send out archived files (such as this one you 
are reading named 'hungarian-faq' in the 'computers' directory), see 
the SENDDOC function in its description. In case you have any problems 
or questions on the HIX services, please read through the automatic 
help response first. If you need human intervention you can reach 
 - but keep in mind that list managers have to do 
plenty other than answering things already laid out in the Fine Manual.

 The above are also available interactively with full-text search 
capability through the Internet service gopher. If you know what that 
beast is (or dare to try anyway :-)) then enter: gopher HIX.ELTE.HU. 
You really should get a program (called a gopher client) to access 
these services, if you don't have one yet! To get started, you can 
check out comp.infosystems.gopher on Usenet, or its associated FAQ from 
SENDDOC computers/gopher.faq. Note that the most recent version of this 
FAQ can be gotten through gopher, or via anonymous ftp from the Usenet 
FAQ archive: rtfm.mit.edu, the file is 
/pub/usenet/news.answers/gopher-faq. Those without FTP access should 
send e-mail to  with "send 
usenet/news.answers/finding-sources" in the body to find out how to do 
FTP by e-mail. If you can telnet, try the host 
consultant.micro.umn.edu (in Europe use gopher.sunet.se) - or look for 
a closer and less overloaded server in Yanoff's INTERNET SERVICES LIST 
(which also has more other Internet stuff than you ever wanted to know 
:-), available via ftp/gopher csd4.csd.uwm.edu, or email to 
). For email only connection there are 
gophermail servers. You can get started by sending mail to 
 (or ) with any or no subject 
and any or no message body. GopherMail will reply by sending you it's 
main gopher menu. To get detailed help on using gophermail, email 
 with 'help' in the Subject: line (the other server 
does not seem to support this function).
 There are other valuable documents of Hungarian interest in the 
hix.elte.hu gopher archive, as well as links to the growing number of 
gopher servers in Hungary. You can start surfing the Hungarian gopherspace 
(that seems to be expanding by the day, so check out often) at gopher.elte.hu 
or sztaki.hu as well. Note that interactive Internet connections like gopher
may be very slow, even timing out during peak hours - try times of lower
network load when the response time is usually reasonable!

NEWEST DEVELOPMENT: as of Feb 19, 1995 there is a machine dedicated
to serving HIX! HIX.MIT.EDU has a WWW server (http://hix.mit.edu/)
as well as a gopher server, and is accessible via finger, too. Try 
.edu
for the easiest access to the archives! There are going to be mirror sites in H
ungary,
use those from inside the country and the one at MIT from the rest of the world
.

 For WWW users there is http://www.fsz.bme.hu/hungary/homepage.html with
links to a few hungarian www servers, including that of the Prime
Minister's Office at http://www.meh.hu, as well as to a great to a great
number of  gophers and other resources. Again, the response time could
be quite good during off hours but may be unusable other times.

 There are Hungarian local newsgroups (see more on Usenet below) 
available through telnet to ludens.elte.hu, login with username GUEST 
(no password), and enter NEWS to start the newsreader (you can use the 
VMS online help to learn about it). The guest account is set up for 
accessing elte.diaklap (students' journal at Eotvos U.), but other 
newsgroups are available as well. (But please be considerate to the 
strained network resources of Hungarian sites - from abroad for 
non-local news use other providers such as BBS.OIT.UNC.EDU shown 
below.) For ELTE-specific questions contact .

-Q: Are there Hungarian-related services primarily in English? 
-A:  is a discussion group providing rapid communication 
among those with interests in Hungarian issues. Subscribe by email from 
 using no subject and a message consisting only of 
SUBSCRIBE HUNGARY Yourfirstname Lastname.  Once you have subscribed, 
any messages which you want to send to the group should be sent to the 
group address, . (This pattern of two addresses is 
standard: you turn your mail off and on at the "listserv" address, and 
you send mail to the listname address.  For example, to  unsubscribe, 
send the server the message SIGNOFF HUNGARY.  You can temporarily turn 
off you mail by sending listserv the message SET HUNGARY NOMAIL.  SET 
HUNGARY MAIL turns mail back on.) By default the listserv sends out
messages as they arrive, maybe several ones on busier days. If you
prefer daily digest format, you can issue the command SET HUNGARY DIGESTS
(again by sending it to the LISTSERV address); alternatively you can
subscribe to HUNGARY via HIX as mentioned above, and receive the same
format as the other lists by HIX. LISTSERV has many useful features,
most notably database search on the list archives - to learn more about
it, send commands like SEND HELP, SEND HELP DATABASE.
 Note that the form of addressing LISTSERV lists such as Hungary may depend
a great deal on your local network configuration and mailer software.
With a full-blown Internet mailer you're better off using the
gwuvm.gwu.edu alias for the host (thus the  and
 addresses), while for BITNET mailers you need
GWUVM only (and figure the local gatewaying to BITNET, like BITNET% for
most VAXMail installations). If you get stuck, help is much more likely
available next door than accross the world so ask around before posting
a query on problems with sending mail!
 
On Usenet there is soc.culture.magyar, mostly in English, sometimes
bilingual, and occasionally Hungarian only. If you're not using Usenet,
ask around your site -- it's available on many Internet hosts on what
normally is known as the network news service. If you're under Unix, try
the newsreaders rn, nn, vn or trn; under other operating systems it may
be NEWSREADER or a similar name. If you don't have local access, try
TELNET BBS.OIT.UNC.EDU (or the LAUNCHPAD.UNC.EDU alias or 
FREENET-IN-A.CWRU.EDU, where you can request a permanent guest account 
with Usenet privileges (among other things).  
 
Use FTP to learn more about Usenet from the archive site RTFM.MIT.EDU 
(starting with the file /pub/usenet/news.answers/news-answers-intro, 
which lists a number of alternative archives located in Europe as 
well). If you do not have anonymous FTP access, you can access the 
archives by mail server as well. To learn how, see Part Two of this FAQ 
or send an email message to  with HELP and 
INDEX on separate lines of the body (make sure you put the dash in the 
address above!).
 
NOTE: RTFM used to be called differently, please use this new address
instead of the old one that's being phased out!
 
NEWS AND DISCUSSION OF EAST CENTRAL EUROPE
 
-Q: Are there reports and discussions about Hungary in its political and
geographical contexts?
-A: Several. You can get Daily Digests of the Open Media Research Institute
from  (or simply 
 on BITNET) by sending the message
SUBSCRIBE OMRI-L Yourfirstname Lastname.  (Hungarian items in OMRI-L
are excerpted in MOZAIK of HIX which is also crossposted to the Usenet
newsgroup soc.culture.magyar.)  The same listserv at Buffalo
also will subscribe you to the Middle European discussion list MIDEUR-L
or to POLAND-L or SLOVAK-L.  Send the usual SUBSCRIBE command.  On 
Usenet there is soc.culture.romanian, soc.culture.czecho-slovak, 
soc.culture.polish, and the gatewayed misc.news.east-europe.rferl, 
bit.listserv.mideur-l and bit.listserv.slovak-l; bit.listserv.hungary 
has been established, but many sites do not have it, and some of those
supposedly carrying lose some or all the posts. If you experience
sporadic distribution of any of the gatewayed lists complain to your
net-news administrator and/or Usenet carrier - you can always check the
list traffic by subscribing to the original email lists described above.
This is one of those problems where people in the know of your local
situation may be able to help you, but the hundreds of list-readers
scattered worldwide are most likely not! Since the gatewayed lists are
primarily LISTSERV based, the surest way to receive everything is via
email. If you prefer using Usenet newsreaders you find HIX's HUNGARY
digests posted to soc.culture.magyar (which group does not seem to
suffer the poor propagation affecting some of the bit.listserv groups).
Please notice that while the listserv groups are bi-directionally
gatewayed, ie. posts to them get propagated back to the original mailing
list, the posts coming from HIX to soc.culture.magyar are mere copies of
the mailing list messages - do not reply to the newgroups since your
answer won't reach the email readers (who constitute a likely large
majority).
 Speaking of limitations of distribution be aware that some commercial
Internet connection providers (most blatantly American Online)
established their own groups with topics overlapping existing Usenet
hierarchy. The utility of these local groups is seriously limited since
they are, unlike the open real Usenet newsgroups such as those 
mentioned above, are unavailable to anyone but their own subscribers 
(ie. a small domestic fraction of all the Internet/Usenet users 
worldwide). Please do not post to non-local groups saying how nice 
would be to use these specialized fora - we can not. Use the newsgroup
soc.culture.magyar or the mailing lists!

 The Central European Regional Research Organization (CERRO) can 
be joined at  with the command 
SUBSCRIBE CERRO-L Firstname Lastname.  This is a scholarly group
that deposits papers and the like in an electronic archive in Vienna.  The
archive is accessible with anonymous FTP at wu-wien.ac.at, or with
gopher at gopher.wu-wien.ac.at. A repository for Voice of America
material accessible with gopher, gopher.voa.gov also contains some
information and news items relevant to the region.

-Q: What are the network connections with Hungary, including BBS 
networks such as FidoNet?
-A: There are four network domains: kfki.hu (Central Research Institute
for Physics), elte.hu (Eotvos University), sztaki.hu and all other *.hu
addresses (Hungarian Academy of Sciences), and huearn.bitnet and
huella.bitnet (also H.A.S.).  FidoNet connects through sztaki.hu, as
indicated above.
 
 Email is usually fast if you have the right address. For Internet 
mailings, don't forget to add a "hu" at the end for Hungary (eg.: 
); for Bitnet addresses, "huella" is in the 
nodename (ex.: ). 
(Note: huella.bitnet and ella.hu are equivalent.)
 
 There are three FidoNet nodes: Budapest NET (2:371/0); West Hungary Net
(2:372/0); and Tisza NET (2:370/0). If you want to write on the 
FidoNet, chances are you already know how. *PLEASE* find out what you 
are about to do instead of experimenting with the Hungarian net - don't
add to the problems for the folks in Hungary having to deal with the 
underdeveloped phone system and outrageous international tolls ;-<. For
further information I post a Fido-sheet separately from this FAQ, where
there are also telephone numbers and further addresses, but again: try 
to verify that you are mailing to a valid address (the BBS situation 
may have changed since the copy you are reading got updated - look for 
current FIDO listing on the net, or better yet contact the person you 
want to reach by other means first)!. If you can send Internet email 
and have the FidoNet address, you can write to it by transforming it to
appropriate .FIDONET.ORG format.

-Q: How do you contact someone in Hungary by email?
-A: If you don't know the address, ask by using the old technology of
pen, paper, and postage stamp (or telephone). 

 There are attempts to establish directory services in Hungary but 
their availability to the outside world has seemed sporadic so far. At 
the moment your best bet is to use HIX's RADIR database - see above. 
Requesting it via email with SENDDOC should be your last resort given 
its huge size and unwieldy structure, but you may be able to search it
more easily online with gopher. If you have some idea what institution
to check out, you may find an online directory service - many are
available, and could be reached thru the main hungarian gopher (or WWW)
mentioned above. Perhaps the biggest database is that of ELLA, to use it
telnet hugbox.sztaki.hu 203 (ie. address a special port); note
that the opening screen uses special characters for the accented letters
but the data records have combinations of vowel plus ',: or " instead 
(ie. searching for hollo'si would retrive a record, but hollosi won't)!
 Alternatively you might check out Radir's user list (HIX's 
SENDDOC feature will tell you how) or send an inquiry to a discussion
group. Readers of Usenet's soc.culture.magyar and Bitnet's HUNGARY
discussion list may be able to help. Or you can send a query to the
postmaster of the Hungarian network or local server.  (See Part Two of
this FAQ for help.)
 
-Q: How are Hungarian accented letters usually represented?
-A: There are a number of solutions, mostly based on TeX. For starters
check out SENDDOC programs etex.Z and hion.Z from HIX (see above) and
also the babel system for LaTeX with Hungarian specific option,
available from FTP sites kth.se or goya.dit.upm.es. In pure ASCII
environment using English-only alphabet (such as traditional email and
Usenet posting) one could simulate accented letters with pairs of
characters; most commonly the linguistic notation is used where a long
vowel is marked with the numeral 1 (ko1r = ailment), a short "umlaut"
with a 2 (ko2r = circle), and a long one with a 3 (ko3r = the figure of
heart in the French card set). Some people prefer coding with
apostrophe, colon and (double) quotation marks (ko'r, ko:r and ko"r for
the above examples), but this results in more ambigous parsing (and
makes reading even harder in my opinion).

HOW TO IMPROVE THIS FAQ
 
-Q: How should I send suggestions, hatemail etc. concerning this FAQ?
-A: I hereby solicit any additions, corrections, suggestions or
questions.
My primary email address is . *Please* note that due to the
high volume of email messages without informative SUBJECT: lines get 
deleted without reading (and putting READ THIS won't do any good ;-) )!

Begin the SUBJECT: line with the string ZFIX$KERDES (followed by a 
descriptive subject of your choice) to enable automatized mail handling.

 I'd like to be notified of archives storing this document (other than
the standard Usenet FAQ repositories, typically mirroring rtfm.mit.edu).
Also, if you see an outdated version online please request updating from
the administrator!
 In closing part 1 let me express the many thanks we all owe to Kent
Bales, whose superb work editing my first drafts made me possible to 
work out the current version. Of course all errors are still my 
responsibility. As you may notice the content as well as the format 
is still too much in a flux to claim exceeding the v1.0 limit ;-(, 
but the upgrade is still free :-).

NOTE: the following is included together with part 1 for this interim 
release, expect separate files in the future!
 
                Part 2  
 
Part 2 amplifies information on Hungarian news, discussions, and email 
and adds information about useful computer resources, computing in 
Hungary, and other such technical matters.
 
Updated versions of these Frequently Asked Questions of Hungarian 
interest (with some answers) are posted to Usenet and the email lists 
concerned about every two weeks.
 
BASICS: BITNET, INTERNET, USENET, INDEPENDENT, AND COMMERCIAL NETWORKS
 
Your access varies depending upon the net you operate within.  Bitnet 
discussion lists leave messages in your mailbox, and you send mail 
messages to all other list members by writing to the list address.  
Internet users can easily subscribe because the two networks have many 
"gateways" or nodes where the networks intersect.  Usenet and 
independents such as FidoNet are different.  They forward messages to 
and from their nodes, using Internet gateways whenever possible for 
long-distance relays, but they don't have access to Bitnet discussion 
lists.  (You, however, can have somebody you know who has Bitnet access
forward list messages to and for you.  This is frequently done.)  Many 
Internet and Usenet nodes participate in Usenet News, a world-wide, 
volunteer aggregation of discussion groups which one joins and 
participates in by calling up the discussion-group messages stored for 
that purpose.  More an extensive bulletin board than a mailbox, it is 
cheaper to operate because it uses much less memory.  All members of 
soc.culture.magyar, for example, read messages stored at a few sites; 
all members of Bitnet's HUNGARY read the same message stored in 
mailboxes all over the world. 
 
At Bitnet-Internet gateways, Bitnet users can usually get access to 
Usenet News by behaving as though they are Internet users.  (Ask how, 
locally.) Otherwise they can use Telnet (TELNET BBS.OIT.UNC.EDU or 
TELNET FREENET-IN-A.CWRU.EDU, where you can request a permanent guest 
account with Usenet privileges, among other things).  Independent nodes
usually don't give access to all Usenet News groups -- only to those 
most interesting to their users -- so make yourself heard if you use an
independent.  Commercial nets usually are the same, giving access to the
most popular groups on Usenet and other discussion networks.
 
RETRIEVING OLD NEWS AND DISCUSSIONS: FTP AND MAIL RETRIEVALS
 
Some Usenet groups and virtually all Bitnet lists store old messages in
archives, which can be searched by the fileserver or by FTP.  FTP (File
Transfer Protocol) is available on the Internet but, for technical 
reasons, not on Bitnet or the others.  Bitnet provides a retrieval 
service, however. Write to  with HELP as the message and you
will receive full instructions.  Some of them will be irrelevant to 
getting messages from the archives.  The concepts should become clearer
from what follows.  
 
First you must know what to ask for, and for a list that you know about
or belong to you can simply ask LISTSERV to tell you what's in the 
archive.  Say you want material from Bitnet's HUNGARY list.  Write 
 with the message LISTDOC HUNGARY, and you'll get 
back the name(s) of the archived files, probably listed by month.  You 
won't need FTP to get these. Commands for getting them, however, vary 
from list to list, group to group. To get E-EUROPE's list, you first ask

 the following: INDEX E-EUROPE.  Then, having found the 
files or month that you want, you send the command GET E-EUROPE 
filetype-thus-and-so (as determined from the index). Sometimes LISTSERV
will tell you the precise form of the the command, but it is good to 
have handy BITNET USERHELP, gotten from  with the 
command GET BITNET USERHELP.  
   
FTP is a UNIX process which lets you transfer files from a distant 
computer to your own system if you're on Internet.  A good way of 
testing if it's available is simply to type FTP at your prompt.  If you
are prompted for an address, you've got FTP!  So either type the 
address you want or start again and do all on one line:
 
     ftp ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu
 
(This example is for the archive of the Humanities Computing Facility at
UCSB, thanks to Eric Dahlin).  Log on with the name "anonymous," and use
your e-mail address as a password.  Next, move to the directory 
containing the files by entering the command:     
 
     cd hcf  
   
Now that you're in the correct directory, you can get a list of all the
file names by entering the command:  
   
     ls  
   
Then, to transfer any of the files to your own system, enter the
command:     
     get filename  
   
It's often wise to transfer first the file called "readme," which may 
show the contents of each of the files in the directory and certainly 
will tell you more about that directory.  If you don't know in advance 
what directory to change to, move through the directory tree using the 
"ls" command and wise guesses about where you want to go.  With luck, 
you'll get what you want.  The commands may be strange (if you're a 
stranger to UNIX, but you need only a few. UNIX is case-sensitive, so 
use lower-case letters, as indicated here.  
 
Finally, end your session with the "quit" command.  If "quit" won't get
you out, try "bye" or "logout" (or Ctrl-D from Unix).
   
(Anonymous FTP is also the usual method for getting public domain and 
"freeware" or "shareware" software from the many archives around the 
world.  The courtesy asked for by these archives is that for large 
transfers you use anonymous ftp only after hours, when machine time 
isn't needed for big jobs.) 
 
Most archive files are compressed, so you'll have to uncompress them.  
If you need to learn about this, ftp oak.oakland.edu, cd 
/pub/msdos/starter and get 00-index.txt. Text files are often simply 
ZIPped.  These can be downloaded all the way to your machine, then 
unzipped with an UNZIP program.  PKZIP and UNZIP are available through 
Gopher and locally from a BBS. 
 
HELP WITH FINDING THE RIGHT FILE AND DIRECTORY: ARCHIE AND GOPHER  
 
There are shortcuts, so that you find precisely the file and its 
location(s) by searching a database.  In or near Canada, Telnet to 
ARCHIE.MCGILL.CA; in the U.S., Telnet ARCHIE.SURA.NET (in MD), 
ARCHIE.UNL.EDU (in NE), ARCHIE.ANS.NET (in NY), or ARCHIE.RUTGERS.EDU 
(in NJ).  
 
Or you can TELNET a GOPHER, which will include FTP sites on its menu.  
Choose that option and, as with ARCHIE, give GOPHER names or key words 
to look up. What you'll get is a list of sites, complete with full 
directory pathways, to files containing in their names the word or words
you asked to be searched. Knowing this, you can confidently proceed to 
follow the Anonymous FTP retrieval instructions given above.  Or you can
let GOPHER do the work for you.  It will write the file to your computer
account, and you can then download it.
 
GOPHER is now in use at a number of sites around the world, including 
Vienna and Graz, so that Hungarian electronic archives should be 
searchable with Gopher's aid.  Gopher plugs right into Archie sites.  
Because it also usually contains electronic addresses for local users, 
it may soon be a good source for Central European e-mail addresses. 
CONSULTANT.MICRO.UMN.EDU is the grandparent GOPHER site, and you can get
a complete list of current GOPHERs from CONSULTANT.
 
E-MAIL AND OTHER COMPUTING IN HUNGARY

 NOTE: the specifics given below for the network in Hungary is very outdated
(it originated sometime in early '93 at the latest)! I figure I better
leave it in here for the time being, for two reasons: 1) history 2) I
don't have the time to do the complete revisal needed just now ;-(. The
situation in general improved a lot since, the capacity (and complexity)
of international connections increased several times. As I mentioned
earlier, even the resource-intensive WWW connections work (most of the
time anyway) at acceptable speed.

Hungary's four domains (basically four separate lines) are these:
 
kfki.hu (Central Research Institute for Physics)
elte.hu (Eotvos University [Budapest])
sztaki.hu and all other *.hu (Automation and Computerization Institute,
            Hungarian Academy of Sciences)
huearn.bitnet and huella.bitnet.
 
They connect to the world as follows:
 
             ------------
  ___      /| UUCP nodes |
 /   \____/  ------------
|  X  | X25  ------------
|  2  |-----| ELLA users |
/  5  \      ------------                                       To Linz,
\     /       -----------  dial-up  ------                      9.6 kbps
|  N  | X.25 |           |---------| UUCP |                         ^
|  e  |------|  sztaki   |   ...    ======                          |
/  t  /      | EUnet BB  |---------| nodes|                      X25|
\  w  \       -----------\          ------          SLIP    ---     |
|  o  |            |      `--------------------------------| H |    |
|  r  |       -----------           -----------            | B |----
|  k  |      |  gateway  |---------|           |    BSC    | O |
\    _/       -----------          |  HUEARN   |-----------| X |
 |__/ \            |               |           |            ---
       \X25   -----------           -----------
        \    |           |
         `---|   ELLA    |----(dial-up)
             |   (IIF)   |      users
              -----------
 
Hungary has a connection to EARN (European Research Network) which is a
9.6 kbps leased line from Budapest to Linz. They use the same line 
through a multiplexer to connect the EUnet backbone to mcsun and the 
Internet. There is a local gateway between the EUnet backbone and the 
EARN  national backbone. It is possible to connect to the EUnet backbone
using the national X.25 network or dial-up lines up to 9.6 kbps speed.
There is also a central mailbox system called ELLA that individual users
can connect to.  Most universities and research institutes are connected
to the ELLA mail-only network (typical address: ).
Part One of this FAQ tells how to get addresses.  You can also ask the 
postmasters for help.  ELLA's is .  (Or ,
Internet style.)

 NOTE: Fidonet mail works with Hungarian BBS's but you have to know 
whom to reach. I will attempt to maintain a separate Fido posting to 
Usenet; please try to make sure you email to a valid address and in 
particular avoid using outdated sources on Hungarian BBS's (otherwise 
your misdirected trial burden the Hungarian network coordinator)!
 
TRAVELING WITH A COMPUTER IN HUNGARY
 
The electricity is 220 volt, 50 cycles, but in fact it fluctuates a 
lot.  A battery driven laptop or notebook is your best bet.  You can 
drive a printer through a simple small converter, but check plug types 
in advance.  The Hungarian standard is two-pronged, and your computer or
printer may well be three-pronged.  The converter may also be 
three-pronged stepped down to two-pronged, but check before you leave.
Just in case, take along one three-prong to two-prong plug adapter, to 
if you want to plug in the battery charger and the printer at the same 
time.
 
You want e-mail?  If you will be working at a university or research 
institute or large business, chances are you can get access to ELLA.  
But if it's just a visit, the best is to get on the FidoNet.  
 
-- Zoli Fekete, email:  (preferred, or )
    alternative addresses:  on the Cleveland Freenet
        on the UNC BBS
        (home of the late Agora ;-()
"For my assured failures and derelictions, I ask pardon beforehand of my
betters and my equals in my calling." - Rudyard Kipling

The Hungarian-American gentleman below is interested in the origin, 
meaning, etc. of the following Hungarian family names :

Gyu~rke 
Koza'r

Please, if you can help him, send you reply directly to :
 (Jeffrey Gyurke )
Thank for your help,
Gotthard

--
personal email,          mailto:
Hungarian-American list, mailto:  
WWW,                       http://www.glue.umd.edu/~gotthard

Please, 
answer Laci's question,  if you have more information on the Hungarian 
Tanchaz in the Los Angeles area.
Koszonom,
Gotthard

--
personal email,          mailto:
Hungarian-American list, mailto:  
WWW,                       http://www.glue.umd.edu/~gotthard

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: 
To: Gotthard Saghi-Szabo >
Subject: Re: Los Angeles, CA - Hungarian Tanchaz

Information on Tanchaz?

I would like to know what age group participates in the dancing.

Thank you.

Laci

On 24 May 1995, CLARY Olivier wrote:
> Say, RFDs about splitting scm to create 1. a politics group, 2. a HIX group?
> Enough for at least one year of flames!
> :-)
> -- Olivier

Vous avez raison, Olivier,  :)
probably we can look forward for another flame war - quite unfortunately.
We should reach at least an approxiamte aggrement on how to structure 
the Magyar (Hungarian) groups, otherwise, all of us end up divided 
between newsgroups trying to carry similar messages.
This is how I see the situation now -
we have 

bit.listserv.hungary       general topics, including Hungarian politics, 
                           culture, history etc

soc.culture.magyar         general topics, including Hungarian culture,
                           politics, history etc.

the proposed 
soc.culture.magyar.hix     general topics, including Hungarian etc ,
                           culture, politics and history  

The amount of crosspostings would be and is quite large between these 
forums. This would certainly divide us. 
I think we could do better than this.

Hollosi Jozsef himself wrote in HIX on several occasions, I quote one of 
them -

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Ez nem vicc: a MOKA nem vicces TIPP, hanem MOKA.

A HIX ujsagok szetvalasztasa mogott megbuvo gondolat az, hogy akinek
nincs vegtelen sok ideje, az azt (es csak azt) tudja olvasni, amit
erdemesnek lat.

Jozsi. /HIX/
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
(that is you divide, so that if you do not have enough time, you read 
only what you are interested in )

Why would he want to divide up the readers of the Hungarian USENET groups?  
My oppinion is, if there is any division of the Hungarian groups, 
that should be based on a similar system to that of used in HIX , or the 
structuring of the USENET groups - topics, and not providers. Then, we 
should place the appropriate HIX groups to the corresponding USENET 
groups.

So far I have heard two, not too convincing arguments for the divison 

Someone said 
1, "put HIX into a separate group, I do not read it anyway" ;

Zoli Fekete said:
2, Hollosi Jozsef will provide a two-way mail-to-USENET service 
   (gating) only for the soc.culture.magyar.hix group, and not for
   any other group

In other words - 
1, you vote against HIX if you do not want to divide the readers based on 
   an absolutely illogical system
2, you vote for, if you want to bring all those people reading HIX closer 
   to the USENET community

Probably the best solution would be, if we find a person/organization -
who would provide two-way-gating for the Hungarian USENET group/s - without 
further or at least with some logical structuring. ( Maybe the same folks 
who fund HIX - I know, dreams, dreams, dreams :) I will look around at 
the Embassies and fundraising events in D.C. 

That way 
1, all of us with email only could contribute and read s.c.m, etc.
2, the structuring, just like HIX's structure, would be based on the 
   people's interest, and not some other, quite arguable point

Qu'en pensez-vous ? 
Salut,
Gotthard

--
personal email,          mailto:
Hungarian-American list, mailto:  
WWW,                       http://www.glue.umd.edu/~gotthard

A 105. sz. Kanadai Magyar Oregcserkesz csapat Hunyadi Matyas
Munkakozossege (HMMK) mar evek ota terjeszt angol nyelvu magyar
tortenelmi konyveket konyvtaraknak es intezmenyeknek. Jelenleg
egy CD lemez eloallitasan dolgoznak. Onkentesek segitsegevel a
kovetkezo 10 konyv elektonikus formaba valo atirasan dolgoznak:

Szerzo: Cim                                            Oldal sz.
> =================================================================

Borsody, Stephen ed.: The Hungarians, A Divided Nation       405
Borsody, Stephen: The New Cetral Europe                      322
Chaszar, Edward: Decision in Vienna                          165
Cseres, Tibor: Titoist Atrocities in Vojvodina, 1944-45      167
Illyes, Elemer: Ethnic Continuity in the Charpato-Danubian   440
Illyes, Elemer: National Minorities in Romania. Change in T  354
Kertesz, Staphen D.: Between Russia and the West             300
Kertesz, Staphen D.: The Last European Peace Conference      192
Lote, Louis I. ed: Transylvania and the Theory of Daco-Roman 112
Wagner, Frances S.: Toward a New Central Europe              322

Hamarosan tovabbi 10 konyv szkennelese is elkeszul. Felovetodott
a gondolat, hogy az internet reven is jo lenne terjeszteni ezeket
a konyveket. Az HMMK megkapta a jogot a konyvek barmilyen
formaban valo terjesztesere. 

Orulnenek ha az olvasok tudnanak valami javaslatot adni, hogy
hova lehetne ezeket a konyveket feltenni, ugy hogy onnan barki
letolthesse akinek szuksege van ra. FTP, GOPHER or WEB
elerhetosegre gondoltak.

Jajaslataitoket, otleteket kerem kuldjetek, az alabbi e-mail
cimre. Annak is orulnenk ha akadna az olvasok kozott aki hajlando
segiteni a szkennelt szoveget atfesulni mielott felkerul a CD-re
es az Internetre. 

Bozoki Barna

In article > Adrian > 
writes:
>[...] Romanian population archeological remains 
>were found all the way to todays' Hungary-Austrian border.  
>The archeological remains are proof that Romanian population existed 
>there way before Arpad [...]

Remains of Roman civilization can be found all around the Mediterranean,
they are called Latin, or a name like Gallo-Roman meaning a local mixing,
not Romanians.

And we have seen here that the area where early Romanians lived (the people
between 500 and 1000 AD whose language became today's Romanian languages)
is quite a debated subject. Also, these linguistic ancestors are only a small
part of the genetic ancestors of today's Romanians: just go a few centuries
back and think what part of the genetic ancestry of Romania, Italy, France etc
is given by the people of the Latium who founded Rome.

-- Olivier

CHANGES IN U.S. IMMIGRATION ARE HAPPENING FASTER THAN EVER BEFORE. YOU 
CAN'T AFFORD TO MISS THEM!

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laws and INS procedures.

For a free copy, please leave your name and postal address on e-mail or 
call 818-888-2172 24 hrs.

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will keep you aware of the latest developments as they happen and insure 
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Thomas Jordan wrote:
> 
> Edwin David Latham wrote:

----snip----

> You're missing the point, Edwin. Singapore is one of the most
> oppressive regimes in asia. People get executed for all sorts
> of things there. Doughnut gets off on that.

I wonder. I think he's being contrary (image, you know), and
maybe he's arguing carelessly, but mostly, I think it's just
that he hasn't thought the matter through.

I doubt he gets off on it (of course, I'll stand corrected if
he says so).

Ned

Dear Readers,

Does any one of you have recent experience with relocating parents from
Hungary to the US?  I need some advice or suggestion.  Please e-mail me
if you would be able to answer to some questions.  Very much
appreciated.

Yours,


Gabor Morocz

Gotthard Saghi-Szabo > wrote:

>bit.listserv.hungary       general topics, including Hungarian politics, 
>                           culture, history etc
 One should keep in mind that the bit.* is not Usenet proper, and b.l.h in
particular suffers dismal propagation. Also, the list is meant to have
scholarly focus (some, at least).

>soc.culture.magyar         general topics, including Hungarian culture,
>                           politics, history etc.
 Last I heard you wanted to split politics off, haven't you ;-(?!

>the proposed 
>soc.culture.magyar.hix     general topics, including Hungarian etc ,
>                           culture, politics and history  
 Of course, the .hix split would not be topical, but only technical: for what
is now propagated principially via email and being unidirectionally dumped into
the newsgroup.

>The amount of crosspostings would be and is quite large between these 
>forums. This would certainly divide us. 
 Actually, crossposting is quite small and it could actually go down a bit with
the HIX posts becoming real Usenet articles. And how would the organization of
the newsgroup traffic divide us?
[...]
>So far I have heard two, not too convincing arguments for the divison 
 That's because you closed your ears ;-( for THE argument: for properly setting
up the bidirectional gatewaying it's desirable to separate HIX out.

>Someone said 
>1, "put HIX into a separate group, I do not read it anyway" ;
 Sounds convincing enough to me. Furthermore, some of us who read some of HIX
would rather do it via email, thus have to skip more stuff on the newsgroup.
And some who would read it may want to do it separately (notice the very
different character of the Usenet posts and the email digests).

>Zoli Fekete said:
>2, Hollosi Jozsef will provide a two-way mail-to-USENET service 
>   (gating) only for the soc.culture.magyar.hix group, and not for
>   any other group
 This is not what I said, of course. As a matter of fact, Jozsi is getting
ready to start a bidirectional gatewaying system for SCM proper. However this
is being complicated by the presence of the rest of the HIX lists, which should
not be looped back to the SCM list.

>Probably the best solution would be, if we find a person/organization -
>who would provide two-way-gating for the Hungarian USENET group/s - without 
>further or at least with some logical structuring. ( Maybe the same folks 
>who fund HIX - I know, dreams, dreams, dreams :) 
 HIX is not being funded (unless one considers Jozsi's work a contribution,
which you apparently don't), but dream on ;-(...

>Qu'en pensez-vous ? 

-- 
Zoli , keeper of hungarian-faq
	SIG under construction!

Gotthard Saghi-Szabo ) wrote:

: > Say, RFDs about splitting scm to create 1. a politics group, 2. a HIX group
?
: > Enough for at least one year of flames!

: Vous avez raison, Olivier,  :)
: probably we can look forward for another flame war - quite unfortunately.

Why not just a polite discussion?   ;-)

: We should reach at least an approxiamte aggrement on how to structure 
: the Magyar (Hungarian) groups, 

Yes indeed.

: otherwise, all of us end up divided 
: between newsgroups trying to carry similar messages.
: This is how I see the situation now -
: we have 

: bit.listserv.hungary       general topics, including Hungarian politics, 
:                            culture, history etc

: soc.culture.magyar         general topics, including Hungarian culture,
:                            politics, history etc.

b.l.h is not a usenet newsgroup.

: the proposed 
: soc.culture.magyar.hix     general topics, including Hungarian etc ,
:                            culture, politics and history  

If I understood correctly, s.c.m.hix would carry the HIX articles, only, 
and the usual discussion should still take place in s.c.m.

: The amount of crosspostings would be and is quite large between these 
: forums. This would certainly divide us. 
: I think we could do better than this.

As far as I know, HIX is mainly for the 'newsgroup challenged' folks
who has only EMail access, though everyone could participate in HIX
because the articles are dumped in s.c.m.

: So far I have heard two, not too convincing arguments for the divison 

: Someone said 
: 1, "put HIX into a separate group, I do not read it anyway" ;

And I believe many other people do the same thing.

: Zoli Fekete said:
: 2, Hollosi Jozsef will provide a two-way mail-to-USENET service 
:    (gating) only for the soc.culture.magyar.hix group, and not for
:    any other group

: In other words - 
: 1, you vote against HIX if you do not want to divide the readers based on 
:    an absolutely illogical system

HIX articles and regular posts are very different in nature.  With 
regular articles one can just read the subject line to decide whther
it's worth to spend some time to read it, or not.   With the HIX 
posts this is not possible. 

: 2, you vote for, if you want to bring all those people reading HIX closer 
:    to the USENET community

Having a separate HIX group actually makes things easier because
it makes two way gating a lot easier.

In article >,
Zoli Fekete, keeper of hungarian-faq > wrote:

> Joskam,
>
>persze hogy nem errol van szo - ha masert nem mar azert sem mert Usenet 
>nem otthon van ;-).

Zolikam,
orulok, hogy igy gondolod, de meg te sem tudhatod, hogy masok, akik
ugyet csinaltak ebbol, nem ilyen motivacioktol voltak indittatva. 
Persze lehet, hogy ok sem, csak hat nekem csak igy "makes sense" a vita
hevessege egy ilyen ugy folott, aminek szerintem egy rutin atnevezesnek
kellett volna lennie.  No de lehet, hogy mar en is tul kozmopolita
lettem itt az Ujvilagban. ;-) 

> De ha mar kedvenc vesszoparipadnal tartunk, akkor 
>valaszolhatnal ilyenkor szokasos keresemre: ugyan mondj mar egy peldat, 
>amikor a "magyar" szo hasznalata miatt valaki is kirekesztesrol 
>panaszkodott odahaza?

Ennek csak akkor lenne ertelme, ha te mindentudo lennel, s minden
peldarol szemelyes tudomasod lenne.  Kulonben ha citalnek egy peldat,
amirol te nem hallottal, azt kitalacionak venned.  Akkor meg minek?
Egyebkent most tenyleg meg kene eroltetnem a memoriamat, mivel ezzel is
ugy vagyok, mint a hallott viccekkel: az iz marad, a reszletek
elszallnak.

Jozsi

In article >,
Zoli Fekete, keeper of hungarian-faq > wrote:

> This is not what I said, of course. As a matter of fact, Jozsi is getting
>ready to start a bidirectional gatewaying system for SCM proper.

Oh, that's interesting!  How is he going to practice then his "pokhendi"
censorship he pulled on me the other day?  It doesn't make much sense to
impose his personal "filter" at the FORUM gateway.  Not to mention his
other, technical filters, such as the 99-line limit he imposed on it.
(Though personally I have no problem with it, as I hate to read too long
articles, anyway.  But sometimes there could be a legit reason for
that.  So I would prefer voluntary restraints on article size.)

Joe

 (Kyle Gryphon) writes:

>I would think they would prefer living in Hungary to living in Russia.
>I'm surprised they haven't asked.  Look at every else who can't wait to 
>get out of that country.  Also, they'll never truly be free in Russia, 
>look at Chechnya.

As Olivier (Clary) already pointed out, these two (closely related) peoples
, even though the closest ones on the language tree to Hungarian, are almost
 as alien in culture and language to Hungarians as, say, Mongols are.
Therefore I find the idea a complete nonsense. 

Anyway, Hungary must concern with that big part of the Hungarian nation which
now lives in the surrounding countries since 1920.

Regards,
  Pm

-- 
 Pm
>----
 Miklos Prisznyak   (KFKI RMKI Theor. Dep. Budapest, Hungary H-1525 P.O.B 49)
<A HREF="http://sgi30.rmki.kfki.hu/~prisz/prisz.html">My Personal WEB Page </A>

 (Steven C. Scheer) writes:

>For three days I am famishing,
>I eat not much nor anything.
>My twenty years are sound and hale,
>My twenty years are up for sale.

>The translation is not very good. The translator seems to have been
>hell-bent on keeping the rhyme and the rhythm of the original, which
>makes for a few awkward expressions.

 I quite agree to this, though I like the above lines. The rest 
 didn't succeed well. Gosh, it's not a piece of cake to translate 
 this. :) 

>Sincerely,
>Steven C. Scheer

 Thanks for the reference and for typing in the translation. 
 It's a good starting point to come up with better solutions. :-)
 ( Any poetically inclined out there? :) )

Pm.


-- 
 Pm
>----
 Miklos Prisznyak   (KFKI RMKI Theor. Dep. Budapest, Hungary H-1525 P.O.B 49)
<A HREF="http://sgi30.rmki.kfki.hu/~prisz/prisz.html">My Personal WEB Page </A>

Hermes > writes:

>Who knows, next time Hungary forgets its place in Geography, may be a good
>time for downsizing. 'AS FAR AS the river Tisa' looks good to me !


 Come on, don't be so shy. Those peace-loving, humble and not at all
 greedy Rumanians should wipe out agressive, expansionist
 Hungary  entirely so that Hungarians remember their "place in
 Geography" (What the hell does this latter thing mean? )

>happy revisionism,
>mark cristian


-- 
 Pm
>----
 Miklos Prisznyak   (KFKI RMKI Theor. Dep. Budapest, Hungary H-1525 P.O.B 49)
<A HREF="http://sgi30.rmki.kfki.hu/~prisz/prisz.html">My Personal WEB Page </A>