Do NOT forget.
1. Poland is the only Europian country that did not have organized
kvislings.
2. Poland has the bigest number of people died during th WW2.
3. Chopin
4. Polish people were trying HARD 45 years against Russians.

I think, Elma, Poland does not need you and your opinion.

Orlan (BTW Croat not Polish)

P.S. Let's try people to find the best rather than the worst in our
countries. I'll start. If I' m going to be wrong, correct me, but don't be
angry with me.

Poland - Chopin, Solidarnost. My favorite, becuse Polish can be pour, weak,
trading everything they have for a chocolate or paif or nylons, but they
are NEVER hypocrites. They did not change their opinions nor under German,
nor Russian occupation neither now when they are free. Be proud!
 
Czecho-Slovakia Now it is two separate countries. I don't know anything
about it. Help! - 7 bridges in Prague, beer in Flek, 'My Sweet Little
Village' (the film)

Slovenia - Presern, Kucan, Triglav (once when you climb it, it stays in
your heart forever)

Russia - what to say? Russia in my heart, Volga, Moscow, Siberia, Votka,
Gorbacov, THEY LIVE              WITH losing their satelites.

Ukraina - ????

Yugoslavia - Njegos, Balasevic, 'Who's singing there', 'Mararhon men run
victory lap' (the first and the third best films in the vhole world! The
Second ome is 'Clock Work Orange' by Stanley Kubrik)

Bosna and Herzegovina - Winter Olympic Games '86 (or '82 my God I'm
becoming senile, Sorry guys), coffee, Indexi(a band), Bijelo Dugme(a band),
my best man( now somewhere in USA sigh!), sevdah(if you know you know, if
you don't nodoby can explain it to you, you have to hear it).

Croatia - My country. The country of thousand(s) islands, Penkala(invented
ball-point pen), tie(le cravat - from Croat), Mestrovic(Indian in Chicago),
The oldest organs in Europe(Tijesno), 

Magyar - Balaton, Best Levi's, nicy food.

Greek - menina eide thea, peleiadio Odisseus..... Pitagora, Platon,
Socrates, Olympic Games, olives, metaxa, democracy, c2=a2+b2, 

USA - Edison, Franklin, Lincoln, democracy, New York, Coca-Cola,
Rock'n'roll, Elvis Presley

>>Ugyanugy sirok a Magyar es Amerikai himnusz enekleseben.  Gondolom megis
>>Amerikai vagyok, utlevelem szerint.  De nem ugy erzem.

>Hat ez nagyon szep, Kristof!  Erre Neked is csak azt tudom irni,
>mi inditott a magyar tanulasara?  Gondolom nem lenne erdektelen ha ezt 
>megirnad.

Kicsit felek a csoportnak valaszolni, mert nem tudom nyolc-tiz ev utan
ha a magyar nyelvtudasom arra megfelel.  Szerintem biztosabb nekem rovid
valaszok adni.  Csak ket evig tanultam Magyarul, es az sajnos nem eleg
erre e listre.  Megis igyekszem.

1987-be mentem MO-ra mint Mormon misszionarius.  Pedig akkor, mi nem
tudtunk semmit se hivatalosan csinalni, ugy hogy koncertre mentunk,
korusban enekeltunk, kosaroztunk, foci meccsekre mentunk (hajra Honved!). 
Predikaltunk is, de szep csendesen.  A vallasunk nem olyan, hogy utkozne
az orszagnak a szokasaival, tehat bar nagyon nem akartam varni a
engedelyt, kb egy evig nem predikaltunk nyitott helyeken.

Ilyenkor, vagy nem csinalunk semmit, vagy tanuljunk a nyelvet, es
gondoltam valami egyszeru regenyt kell tanulnom ahhoz, hogy majd-majd
ertek valamit a beszelgetesbol.  Rozsaszin Parduc-ot olvastam,
kepzeljetek.  De segitett.  Mielott elmentem, Az Ember Tragedia-t olvastam
es eleg jol (azt hittem) ertettem.  Mindig az volt az erzesem hogy ha a
Magyarok olyan sokat tudnak szenvedni, megis buskek lenni az otthonukrol,
akkor toluk volt mit tanulnom.  Igazam volt.

Olyan sok a barataim MO-n, bar Budan, Pesten, Dunaujvarosban,
Baktaloranthazan, Gyorott, stb.  Amikor elmentem, sirtam tobbet mint
amikor hagytam csaladomat Amerikaban.  Augusztusban megyek vissza, elso
visszautasra.  Alig birom varni!

Azert erdekel ez a lista mert tudok nem csak nyelvet gyakorolni, hanem
eszmet hozzafuzve.  Sajnos, nagyon ertektelen erzem magam foleg ezzen a
listan (a BLH lista konyebb nekem) mert nagyon rosszul tudom magam
kifejezni, de eddig nagyon jol erzem magam a listan.  Szimpatikusok
vagytok, majd nem mind.  Ezt nagyon szepen koszonom.

Voltatok-e valamikor olyan helyen, ahol sose voltatok mar, de megis ugy
ereztek mintha otthon lennetek volna?  Ugy ereztem en eloszor
Nepstadionban
amikor megvertunk az Ejszak Irlandiakat, Kiprich Joszi szep
csusztatasaval.  Es amikor a Parlament elott enekeltem a Himnuszt kb tiz
ezer emberrel.  Es amikor A Revizor cimu szinjatekot neztem.  De gazdakok
ti, Magyarok!

Es, semmivel kapcsolatban, a nylevetek borzasto nehez.

Kristof

wrote:
> 
> Lena > writes: >
> >
> > I am amazed at the level of this discussion.
> >
> > Just stop for a minute and imagine that you live on one street with a
> > rapist, murderer and a robber. Would you feel safe even if the guy was
> > sort of quiet for a few years? 

Why are you so hard on poor Germany?

Yury

Gabor Barsai > wrote 
> Fogalmam sincs, gondoltam a Horvath Laszlorol beszeltel. Ha nem, akkor
kirol?

Arrol beszeltem, hogy a latin-amerikai noket hivtuk a bulikra.  Nokrol
beszelunk, nem ferfiakrol.
Istvan

Mr. Kudla wrote:
> 
> MIECZ - SLAWOMIR says...
> [...]
> > I belong to this nationalistic minority in Poland and elsewhere
> 
> in street English = I am a NAZI!!! :-(


 Get out narrow minded punk with this defamation of thousands 
Polish Nationalists murdered also in Aushwitz  by Germans who 
happened to be real nazis.  Nazism has nothing to do with 
ideology and tradition of Polish Nationalism.  
  Do not mess us - Poles with  them - Germans.
Nazis ought to be associated with the country where it was born.  
Polish Nationalistic ideology is based on values of the great 
Civilization of Rome. 
 Nazism was a barbaric ideology of  Teutonic herds created by 
antiChristian freemasons from The Thule Lodge.
I am not surprised that someone who knows street language
is using such stinky street deduction.
 This is a libel not only against memory of Polish Nationalists
killed by Germans on base of their strong patriotism during WWII
but the whole Polish Nation as well.  




> [...]
> >      //
> >  O<<<M I E C Z>>>>>
> >      \\
> >
> >
> >
> >  ..."Jestem Polakiem - wiec mam obowiazki polskie"
> >
> >  ...I am Pole - then I have got Polish duties"...
> >
> >Roman Dmowski, "MYSLI NOWOCZESNEGO POLAKA"
> >
> >               "Thoughts of A Modern Pole"
> 
> Mr. Kudla >
> --
> "...gieroj nie mojevo romana.."    ( not from my novel hero)
>                                                        - Gribojedov-


--


     //
 O<<<M I E C Z>>>>>
     \\


 ..."Jestem Polakiem - wiec mam obowiazki polskie"

  ...I am Pole - then I have got Polish duties"...

Roman Dmowski, "MYSLI NOWOCZESNEGO POLAKA"

              "Thoughts of A Modern Pole"

MIECZ - SŁAWOMIR > wrote:

> We learned to much 
>from the past half  century of Soviet influence to be not caution now. 
>There were Greek rights violated many times by Turkey despite those two 
>countries belong to the  same treaty but why did the USA  allow Turkey to 
>violate Greece? 

I am 100% with you on this one. For the first time in history
Europeans have a unique chance to sit down at one table and decide once
and for all that Europe should no more be devided into military blocks,
regardless of what their purpose is proclaimed to be. Everybody is sick
of confrontation and fear. East Europe is going through difficult time
of coming to grips with its new position and identity. Why is all this
rush to serve a new master? Are freedom and independence not enough?
Do servile instincts overshadow a great chance to take advantage of
the strategic geographic position and historic ties with Russia and
the West? How many Russians do people scared of them know in person?
How naive and foolish are those pointing out to Chechnya! Why not point
to Northen Ireland then? Wake up people! Why spoil the festivity of
good will?


  Can you help me to find a proper answer? 
>I expect from Russians clear explanation why does Russia oppose Poland 
>and other former Warsaw Pact countries membership in NATO Pact? 


In short, Russia opposes the _very_ move -- NATO expansion to her
borders. Russians simply can't understand WHY. Russia has given up
its stance of superpower, Russia is economically weak, Russia's 
military is in disarray... Is there any other explanation for such
a hostile act if not the desire to play the upper hand? 

An alternative is simple. Reduce conventional & nuclear forces in Europe.
Negotiate in honest a new European-American-Asian security system.
Talk about bringing barriers down -- not erecting new ones. Isn't that
simple? Doesn't the West have time enough to let this happen? Why
hurry as if days count? The answer is hard to swallow for some but
is quite straightforward -- anti-Russian hysteria in the West has not
died away --- the pro-military business circles are dissatisfied with
having lost the convenient scare-crow --- Iraq/Iran/Libia simply haven't
been able to replace it -- now they are pushing around the Russian bear
intentionally --- waiting for it to growl smth. in response.
And then the whole thing will start over again. But this time Eastern
Europe is supposed to serve as a shield for the West. Come on, for 
an insignificant bribe everything will be possible. Brand new nukes
from Uncle Sam, new airfields for strategic bombers ("posing a threat
to say smb. else but not Russia of course"). WHY? DO YOU NEED ALL THIS?
 

Yuri

In article >, 
 says...
>
> Karl Bogos > writes:
>>Magyarorszagon nincs HRC, de azert arulnak hamisitott HRC T-shirtoket
>>en ott voltam a tavaly es lattam hogy eleg nevetsegesen neznek ki a 
T-shirtok.
>
>Valamikor po'lo' ingnek hivtuk. Tud valaki valami korszerubb nevet a 
t-shirt 
>forditasara? Elore is ko~sz!
>GK

A pesti baratnom, akinek ajandekoztam egyet, egyszeruen trikonak hivja.

Agnes

Hi
I'd like to correspond with Mental Health Workers in Hungary. My area 
of interest is Psychiatric Rehab but I'd be delighted to hear from 
workers in any specialty.

Derek Petrie  E.mail - turning.point @zetnet.co.uk

Mr. Kudla wrote:
> 
> In article >,  says...
> [...]
> > I belong to this nationalistic minority in Poland and elsewhere
> 
> in street English = I am a NAZI!!! :-(
> [...]

Who said this? I cannot understand someone claiming to 
be a Nazi but ending with a frown..  It is like he 
wishes he were not a Nazi.. ???  Nazism is ideology, 
isn't it?  If one chooses not to be, then he is not. 
Of course, if he were, then it is a differnet story. 

Clare

1. The notorious Woodside "Literary Agency," also know as the NYC, the
International, Bob's, Honest Ursula's, and who knows how many other
names, spammed your newsgroup last night:
> We* are now accepting new & previously published writers for
> publication. We have 3 offices/ 2 in New York City/
[...]


2. This is how to reach them, since they routinely forge their
addresses: 
Ursula Sprachman and James Leonard
>1190 North Collier Blvd.
>MarcoIsland,  Florida
> Zip: 34145
> Tel: 941-642-9660


3. This is what happens if you send them your writing, from a post on
alt.folklore.ghost-stories:

>I responded, perhaps foolishly, to the ad below. I sent a manuscript, 
>with $150.00. Woodside since sent mail requesting an additional 
>$250.00 to a Mr. John Lawrence who, according to Woodside, resides 
>now in Marco Island Florida. The letter sent to me asks me to send money 
>to the Florida address, "(above)." When I look "(above)" in the letter, there 
>is no Florida address listed.  And so I called the phone number listed (in 
>Woodside NY --aka Queens) and the phone is busy--now for three days. 
>I then called Marco Island directory assistance, and I received a phone 
>number for a Mr. John Lawrence. I then called the number, the phone was 
>answered, and when I asked for John Lawrence, I was told, "I'm sorry, 
>Mr. Lawrence is deceased." Suspicious?
>        p
>P.S. Too bad. My story is actually quite good.


4. Here is how to find out more: 
http://www.geocities.com/~hitchcockc/main.html, 
or read my article from the Boston Phoenix:
http://www.bostonphoenix.com/archive/styles/97/02/13/NET_STALKING.html).


5. Here is what happens when one writes exposes of a ruthless, dubious
literary agency: Two FBI agents came to my door yesterday morning,
saying that Ursula Sprachman had filed a complaint with the US Attorney
General's Office, claiming that I had called her, identified myself by
name (!), and told her that I'd hired a hitman to come and slit her
throat (!!!). They were really quite friendly once we got it
straightened out, but really!


6. Last bit of advice: No matter what their name, how sincere they
sound, and how much they praise your work, no legitimate agent or
publisher asks you for money upfront.


Jack Mingo
misc.writing's
ambassador of goodwill

Oliver Fiorini > wrote
> Kerem irja valaki meg ha ez nem igy van, de valahogy
> ugy emlekszem hogy Genghis Khan hordai kiirtottak, elhurcoltak
> az akkori magyarok 75 % -at.
 
>  A tatarjaras utan, a kiraly Nagy Lajos hivott az orszagba 
> ezer meg ezer embert, tobbnyire a kornyezo orszagokbol.
> Ezeknek a leszarmozotjai sok esetben mar 'magyarnak'
> tartottak magukat a Mohacsi csata idejen.

Kedves Mark!
   Koszonom a tiszta leirasodat.  Ezt gondolom, hogy minden magyar tudja
vagy tudhatna.  Amikor az elet nem ugy ment mintha szerettem volna,
Edesapam mondta 'Tobb is veszett Mohacsnal'.  Kihevertuk a tatarokat,
torokoket, osztrakokat, nemeteket, es muszkakat.  Kibe van meg magyar ver? 
Nem tudom es nem is erdekel.  Remelem is, hogy tovabbra is hozza jarulsz
ehhez a listahoz. 

> Ki Magyar, mi Magyar ? Ki Canadai ? Ki az Amerikai?

A kozos kultura, hagyomanyok tisztelete, es haza szetertete fogg ossze
azokat akik magyarnak, canadainak, vagy amerikainak valjak magukat.  Ha ez
az elgondolas nem megfelelo, javasolj egy masikat.  

Talan ha a romanok, szerbek, es szlovakok kozott elnenk akkor konnyebben
meg tudnank mondani, hogy magyarok vagyunk e vagy nem.  Akik ott elviselik
az uldozest azert, mert a magyar nyelvet, kulturat apoljak, azok magyarok.

Azt konnyebb megmondani, hogy ki nem a magyar.  Aki a hazankat, nepunket
szapulja, marpedig masok elot angolul, az nem magyar.

Udv: Istvan

Az AOLon (America Online)van egy MAGYAR szoba ahol talakozhatsz mas
hazankfiaival. "clikkelj a ROOMS gombon es utanna clikkelj a PRIVATE
gombon
es akkor ird BUDAPEST es mar ott is vagy. tobbnyire este van mozgas de
majdnem egesz nap talalsz valakit aki ki be ugral.,

MAKO a vilag kozepe.

In article > 
.com () writes:
>From:  ()
>Subject: Translation help
>Date: 19 Feb 1997 04:13:15 GMT

>I am trying to figure out the best translation of the word "contempt",
>especially as it's used in expressions such as "contempt of the Court",
>or Contempt of Congress (Parliament).  Somehow the word "megvete's" or
>"lene'ze's" don't sound right in such expressions.

>Any takers?

>Joe

Az tudom, hogy a "Contempt of Court" helyett a "biro'sa'g megse'rte'se"  miatt 
szoktak valakit megbirsa'golni, de e'n sem tudok a'ltala'nos megfelelo"t.
GK

chang hong liu wrote:
> 
> Hi! I'm trying to figure out whether the address I have for a friend in
> Sopron is wrong because my previous letter was obviously not received.
> This is very bad because I receive my friend's letters. My friend lives
> close to a famous old castle in Sopron, but I forgot it's name. Please
> send me an email if you know the city well. Thank you!
> 
> chang
Try www.efe.hu. This is the homepage of University of Sopron

					Hi Laszlo

Gabor Barsai > wrote 
> Fogalmam sincs, kirol beszelsz, melyik listan. A scm-on olvastam, hogy a
> Laszlot meg a Gusztavot szapulod. Mas temarol nem tudok.

Tegyuk fol, hogy a Kamcsatkai listarol beszelek.

Nem tudom, hogy a Gusztavval valtot lovoldozest szapulasnak neveznem e. 
Szerintem, jo tudasu tortenesz, de egy kicsit elfogult a torokok partjara. 
Ez szerintem nem szapulas, csak velemeny kulombseg.

Laszlo fasisztanak meg muszkanak lehordott reszben.  Ezt mar nehezebb
elviselni, es vissza vagtam neki.  Nincs kedvem a Laszloval veszekedni,
mert csak ilyen kis uzenetekkel valo jatszasra van idom.  Komoly sertegetes
tobb idot igenyel.

Istvan

A diktatoroknak a halaluk utan is sok a hatalmuk.

Miutan Sztalin megdoglott, egy kis oreg az angyalfoldi butor gyarban a
vallara tett egy seprut.  Kerdeztek tole, hogy 'mit csinal Jani bacsi'. 
Azt felelte, hogy 'disz orseget allok Sztalin elvtarsnak'.  A kis oreg
masnap mar nem jott dolgozni.  Eltunt mint sok ezer(?), tizezer(?),
szazezer(?) magyar, akit elvittek joforman semmiert.  Talan az meg
borzasztobb volt, hogy a lanya, aki ugyanott dolgozott, nem mert meg
panaszkodni se amiert eltunt az apja.  Mikor fogjuk megtudni, hogy hany
magyar aldozata volt a kommunista uralomnak?

A Dung tolem rohadhat a tobbi kommunista gyilkossal eggyut.

Istvan

elena danielyan wrote:

[deleted]


> 
> As of questions on Russian economy:
>  WB data: Rus. Fed. GDP at 6th in the world
>                 (1244 billion), and 8700 $/capita (PPP)
>  -   compare with $2500-5500 in 'Vishegrad' countries.


Well, I looks that Russia is doing just fine and the "Vishegrad"
coutries real bad! It's time to move to Russia.
Where have you found these figures.. May I know?
And how come that while Russia's economy is in such an excellent
shape people don't get paid for months over there?


MK




> 
>  'Rising East': China - world's second largest GDP,
>  (potential growth 900%), Japan 3rd (potential growth 20%),
>  India 5th (potential growth 800%), Russia 6th (potential growth 150%),
>  South Korea 8th (potential growth 50%)
> 
> Less NAaaato hysteria, more numbers...

Thanks to some messages received, a table for Hungarian placenames in 
Transylvania has been added to GeoNative. There are also German names 
listed in it.
The URL is:
	http://www.geocities.com/Athens/9479/magyar.html

We hope to add in the future more names from Hungarian minorities in 
Yugoslavia, Slovakia and elsewhere. Thanks for your help.


--IMPORTANT---------for any comments-----------------------------
Please do not answer to this newsgroup. Send your comments to
	
	
--THANKS-----Luistxo Fernandez and Marije Manterola--------

Germany or Germans were never poor. Only ignorant and stupid.
Apl

Yury Mukharsky > wrote in article
>...
> wrote:
> > 
> > Lena > writes: >
> > >
> > > I am amazed at the level of this discussion.
> > >
> > > Just stop for a minute and imagine that you live on one street with a
> > > rapist, murderer and a robber. Would you feel safe even if the guy
was
> > > sort of quiet for a few years? 
> 
> Why are you so hard on poor Germany?
> 
> Yury
>

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Go fuck yourself

Just a  friendly little reminder for everyone's benefit: what you've read
there is an outright invitation to join in the Pyramid-scam! If you join
in you are an outright loser.Besides it is illegal in the US!!  So DON'T
CHECK IT OUT!!! Just ask any Albanian who lost everything to their
government the same way!!
This is a scam, a sham so DON'T BE AN IDIOT by joining it!!!
Balazs

Radovan Hradek ) wrote:


: > : #>Meg kene pofoznom magam, hogy ebren vagyok e!  Gusztavval eggyet
: ertek!
: > : #>Istvan
: > : #

: ("Meg kene pofoznom magam, hogy ebren vagyok e!"

: For us not worthy, could you please translate what the hell you are talking
: about.

Moja madarcina je velmi slaba, ale myslim si, ze to znamena "Chcem sa 
pofackat (I want to slap myself), lebo suhlasim s Gustavom."

  Co tym chce vlastne povedat je celkom druha vec.


: Thank you in advance,

: Radovan Hradek

  Andrew March
  University of Pennsylvania

Sziasztok!

Ismertek Orosz-Magyar szotart a Net-en?
En csak a 'Foreign Languages for Travelers' oldalrol
(http://www.travlang.com/languages/index.html)
ismerek egyparat, de azok sajnos nem elerhetoek.

Talan van valaki, aki  tud mas interaktiv szotart.

Elore is koszonom.

Monika

Something funny I found in the Slovak list:

> ==================================================

DORK THE ANTHROPOLOGIST: THE EU IN PORK PERSPECTIVE

    WHO NEEDS WEST EUROPEAN TIES WHEN YOUR LINKS ARE SO GOOD?

    By Dork Zygotian >

    Hungarians want to become Europeans. It seems strange,
    considering that they have been in Europe for eleven hundred
    years, that they yearn so actively for a status they already
    have. But no, they want to go the whole ten yards. The want to be
    members of the European Union.

    As a bearer of a large genetic inheritance of Hungarian origin
    DNA, I am puzzled that my brethren are poised to join yet another
    hay-brained European Empire scheme. The Hungarians, fresh from
    playing the Khazars off the Byzantines and then going for the
    money with the Holy Roman Empire,  have hosted the Anjous, the
    Hapsburgs, the Ottomans, the Third Reich and finally our glorious
    if somewhat heavy-handed pals, the Soviets. None of them have
    ever been able to get us out of paying the ticket for parking our
    horde in the Pannonian basin 1100 years ago.

    Yet Hungarians are avid Europeans. They even wear ascot scarves
    in public, something rarely seen on other continents since the
    death of Ferdinand Marcos. They listen to Italian pop music,
    German techno, classical music from Telemann to Stockhausen, as
    long as it doesn't have a trace of some catchy non-European beat.
    They ski even if they can't afford it. Many have even converted
    from traditional European Christianity to the newer mass
    religion: the European Football Cup.

    But Eurofication will have grave results on the core of Hungarian
    culture. This becomes evident as soon as one travels outside of
    Hungary and tries to get something cheap to eat. In Europe, that
    great mass of wealth and BMWs just to the west of us, the
    sausages suck.

    Any visitor to Hungary will eventually get drawn into a
    conversation about the inevitability of Hungary becoming a member
    of the European Union. If you are a European, this will take the
    form of the Hungarian looking deep into your eyes with a hypnotic
    stare that translates, or threatens, depending on your point of
    view, into radiations of expectant brotherhood. If you are from
    the US you get a look of smug determination, punctuated by a
    comment or two about how the "Americans have no history, no
    culture." Poor thangs. However, if you are from any European
    country bordering on Hungary except Austria, you will get a snarl
    of contempt for even pretending to be European. This makes
    Hungary's claim to be "Central European" somewhat problematic. If
    we are at the east end of Europe, that would make us "East
    Europeans". Nobody in Hungary would want to be called that. Logic
    is a merciless mistress, though.

    European popular culture is presently in the throws of rapture
    about the European Union. This is most often expressed as a
    simple form of narcissism. Traveling through Germany or Belgium
    one sees posters stating "Europa mit uns!" or somesuch
    neo-patriotism on every second or third bus stop. The (rather
    ridiculous) EU flag flies from autobahn rest stations and adorns
    myriad tourist key rings. There is a smug self-satisfaction (and
    more than a hint of anti-American xenophobia) in Europe's march
    to unity.

    But what, indeed, will unification with the White Folks to The
    West bring Hungary? Will the onerous EU bureaucracy replace
    Hungary's own onerous bureaucracy? (More likely things will work
    the other way. Hah!) Will the EU's homogenizing regulations put
    an end to Hungary's unique traditions?

    Most importantly, what impact will the EU have on our sausages?

    I recently returned from a sausage-fact-finding-mission to
    several EU nations, as well as Switzerland, which was included to
    act as a control within this experiment of a nation that does not
    belong to the EU. Given the economic differences between Hungary
    and, say, Germany, the native Hungarian anthropologist first
    finds that the only thing he can afford to eat in these countries
    is sausages. Apparently, the Western European nations look down
    on sausages. Sausages are everywhere, and usually cheap.
    Unfortunately, they are Eurosausages, made with Europork and
    various Eurofillers, stuffed into Eurocasings and fried in
    Eurogrease. And they usually taste like Eurocrap.

    Perhaps living in Hungary has spoiled me. When I bite into a
    sausage I expect to hear the meat say "oink!" In Hungary, when
    you order a sausage in the butcher shop, the butcher pulls out a
    net and starts chasing the squealing little links around the
    shop. In France or Belgium, you go to the ministry of Cheap Eats
    and stand on line for hours while some underling Eurocrat stamps
    the forms that will allow you to apply for the purchase of two
    (2) sausages.

    Hungarian sausages are designed to be eaten standing up, by
    persons not dressed in fancy clothes. When you bite into one,
    great torrents of paprika colored grease and juice should explode
    into the atmosphere around you. If you eat more than two, you
    should expect to bite on some piece of bone or possibly find a
    tooth or hair sometime during your meal. There will be a large
    yellow gelatinous bit somewhere in your sausage that you should
    not be able to identify. This is all part of the kolbasz
    experience. This is not Europe -- this is kolbasz! It tastes
    good!

    Of course, those familiar with Germany will allow that the lusty
    Tuetons will never stand for the Eurofication of their national
    snack. But although Germany has hundreds of local variations on
    the bratwurst, the truth is they all taste the same! The
    differences are usually a matter of shape and size, making eating
    them different physical exercises while in a culinary sense they
    are much of a muchness. (Germans: it ain't the meat -- it's the
    motion!) In fact, the weisswurst of Munich is actually white!
    Pigmeat is not white! What do they do to come up with white
    sausages?

    In Berlin I visited the KaDeWe, the Kaufhaus of de West, which
    was once the showcase of all things which worshipped western
    consumerism. Up on the sixth floor is the most amazing food
    emporium I have ever seen this side of New York's Lower East
    side. An entire half floor is devoted to sausages, bacons and
    salamis. The shopper can choose from various kiosks offering the
    regional specialties of each of Germany's regions, as well as
    browsing the kiosks of northern Italy, the Alaska, Belgium and
    Austria. And in the middle of all this was one little wall
    hanging of Hungarian sausages. A net was looped around a plywood
    pillar and hung with pick salamis and a couple of rather lame
    looking gyulai kolbasz.

    Is this what we have come to? In the KaDaWe, the virtual Vatican
    of European pork consumption, all Hungary has is a couple of
    sandwiches worth of salami. I was confused, disoriented, and I
    had to flee the sausage room to the comfort of the seafood wing,
    where I at least knew that I would not be confronted by any stark
    images of Hungary's lack of proper marketing.

    Finally I found some sausages of character in Switzerland -- a
    country which is not intent on joining the EU in the foreseeable
    future, or as long as their money holds out. The Swiss are brave
    sausage makers -- no two sausages there seem to taste the same.
    They stick all kinds of stuff inside their casings, sometimes
    even meat! One sausage I had in Geneva included sour cabbage
    inside the sausage with the meat, sort of a complete
    meal-in-an-intestine for the happy cheesemaker. It was very, very
    weird.

    So let others debate the pros and cons of EU membership. Let
    others damn or praise the expansion of the new Euro Empire. I for
    one am happy with the status quo. Hungary continues to lead in
    sausages. And as my one time professor of International relations
    (not tenured) said "The nation that controls the best sausages
    will control the world!"

    We are still waiting.

    ***

    Dork Zygotian > is a Hungarian-American
    anthropologist with a healthy appreciation for well-prepared
    pork.

> ==================================================

Joe Pannon
----------
REMINDER: Please correct my e-mail address in any personal reply by
removing the "antiSPAM." part from it.  I have altered the address
in the hope of defeating address grabbing SPAM software.  Thanks, JP

Go fuck yourself

Laszlo Horvath > wrote
> Le hurrongtad Aradi Peter referenciajat.

Meg neztem az Aradi Peternek irt valaszomat.  Nem hurrongtam le! 
Tisztelettel valaszoltam neki, annak ellenere, hogy nem ertettem vele
eggyet.  Az az erzesem, hogy Peter meg tudja vedeni magat.

Kulonben is ezt a listanak irom, mert neked nem tratozok magyarazattal. 
Amikor viccesen  emlitettem, hogy fel tucat angyalfoldi kellene, igy
tamadtal meg a HUNGARY listan:

Masodszor, mi a fenet ertel azon az "ilyenkor kellene egy fel tucat 
Angyalfoldi?" Valakot elverni, agyanloni, felhuzni? Meirt nem egy 
feltucat skinhead vagy Stormtrupper?

Az angyalfoldiek vaganyok voltak es nem vettek be a kommunista suket dumat
se akkor se most.  Csak ennyit akartam mondani es mindjart nekem estel. 

A HUNGARY listan divatos a magyarokat fasizstanak es antiszemitanak
lehordani.  Nem tetszett, hogy egy masik magyar lemocskolasaval probaltal a
magyar gyulolo pajtasaidnak imponalni.  En teged honfitarsnak tartottalak,
es nagyon csalodtam.  A kommunistak voltak akik vertek, agyonlotek, es
felhuztak a honfitarsainkat.  Ez volt az o modszeruk nem a mienk.

Laszlo Horvath > wrote
> Valoban Angyalfoldi vagy s nem valami muszka-foldi Istvan?

Erre mit valaszoljak?
Ugy latszik, hogy a mocskoskast mar nem csak a HUNGARY listan csinalod.
Csak sajnalni tudlak.

Istvan

In article >, "Istvan
Lippai" > wrote:

> Gabor Barsai > wrote 
> > Fogalmam sincs, kirol beszelsz, melyik listan. A scm-on olvastam, hogy a
> > Laszlot meg a Gusztavot szapulod. Mas temarol nem tudok.
> 
> Tegyuk fol, hogy a Kamcsatkai listarol beszelek.
> 
> Nem tudom, hogy a Gusztavval valtot lovoldozest szapulasnak neveznem e. 
> Szerintem, jo tudasu tortenesz, de egy kicsit elfogult a torokok partjara. 
> Ez szerintem nem szapulas, csak velemeny kulombseg.
> 
> Laszlo fasisztanak meg muszkanak lehordott reszben.  Ezt mar nehezebb
> elviselni, es vissza vagtam neki.  Nincs kedvem a Laszloval veszekedni,
> mert csak ilyen kis uzenetekkel valo jatszasra van idom.  Komoly sertegetes
> tobb idot igenyel.
> 
> Istvan

Jo, latom ezen a teman teljesen mas frekvencian vagyunk, ugyhogy: kikapcs.

Gabor

In article > Oliver Fiorini 
> writes:
>From: Oliver Fiorini >
>Subject: Re: Ilyen Magyarokkal(?) sohase talalkoztam - (Valasz Istvannak)
>Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 11:02:53 -0800

>Gustav Horvath wrote:
>> 
>> Kedves Istvan batyam,
>> A dolgot nagyon leegyszerusitene ha meghataroznank, 
>hogy ki es mi es fokepp miert m(M)agyar.

> A tatarjaras utan, a kiraly Nagy Lajos hivott az orszagba 
>ezer meg ezer embert, tobbnyire a kornyezo orszagokbol.

>Ezeknek a leszarmozotjai sok esetben mar 'magyarnak'
>tartottak magukat a Mohacsi csata idejen.

>Ki Magyar , mi Magyar ? Ki Canadai ? Ki az Amerikai?
>Nem tudom! Talan valaki mas tud ehhez szolni.

Szerintem magyar az, aki oszinten magyarnak erzi magat. Aki a magyar 
csapatnak/versenyzonek drukkol az olimpian, akinek a szive otthont erez mikor 
magyar zenet/kolteszetet hallgat. Aki jobbitani igyekszik Magyarorszag sorsat, 
a lehetosegeihez merve.


>Egy biztos: Aki Magyar Orszagot allandoan negativan
>kepviseli annak a neve, ahogy Petofi irta : "Sehonnai bitang ember"
> -szerintem.

Szerintem is.

>Hogy ne legyen felreertes, constructive criticism, ugy mint 
>egy csaladban, kell hogy legyen! Ocsmany ragalmazas nem!

>Persze akkor a vita indul, hogy mi a constructive 
>criticism es mi a ragalmazas. 

Pedig egyszeru: ami rossz, de igaz az kritika, ami rossz es nem igaz, az 
ragalmazas. (Ami jo de nem igaz, az alfelnyalas.)

>Udv. 

>                       Mark O.F.

GK

Istvan Lippai wrote:
Egy par megjegyzes Istvannak:

Te gyakran nem hiszel a szemednek mikor a bekeretezett nezeteidnek valami 
ellentmond.

Jo lett volna ha a szerzo nevet es a mu cimet is a megnevezted volna 
mikor ideztel egy Szerb tortenesz munkajabol. Volt lenyeges kulonbbseg a 
Torok birodalom Balkan es Magyar teruleteinek adminisztralasaban.

Le hurrongtad Aradi Peter referenciajat. Ha felhevulesed nem lett volna 
olyan eros eszrevehetted volna, hogy Aradi ur 45 elotti nagy, neves 
magyar torteneszeket nevezett meg, akik munkait eredetileg Magyar Kiralyi 
Nyomda adta ki (s nem magyar allami, nem kommunista kiado

Lehurrogtal egy foldinket is aki, ellentetben veled s az angyalfoldi 
tarsaiddal, szinten emlekszik (s resztvett) a himnusz nyilvanos 
enekleserol azokban az idokben. Sajnos ahogy idosodunk (en is 61-et 
taposok) ugy emlekeink a tenyekkel kapcsolatban trukkoket jatszanak 
velunk s szeretnek a tenyeket, a tapasztaltat is, jelenlegi ideologiank, 
nezeteink, kivansagaink, sot meg tudatallatti kivansagaink, kaptafajara 
huzni. Hanyszor meg hanyszor meg kell allnom egy pillanatra egy vita 
heveben s megkerdeznem magam, hogy valoban ugy volt az amit allitottam, 
ugy tortent-e meg. Sajnos tortenelmunk megvolt hamisitgatva, nyirbalva 
sok tekintetben a kommunizmus eveikben s most -es a jovoben- egyenesitsuk 
ki kemeny tenyekkel ("wie es eigentlich geschehen war" -torteneszek egyik 
vezerszelleme) s ne egy ujabb mitologia felepitesevel (amely sajnos 
folyamatban van jo indulatu nacionalistaink altal)

A Rakosi es azt koveto kommunista evekben is valoban voltak kulonbsegek 
az orszagban az elnyomas, vallas uldozes, ideologiai konformizmus 
mereteiben, modszereiben, stb. En Szabolcs-Szatmari vagyok -ahol, jol 
ismert, az elnyomas erosebb volt mint mashol- de emlekszem jol, hogy ugy 
templomban is (reformatus is es katolikus is -en, s csaladom, mindkettobe 
jart-) azokban az evekben amelyekre te referalsz, enekeltuk a himnuszt. S 
enekeltuk a himnuszt Marcius 15-en is. Bar mivel felvonultunk/meneteltunk 
inkabb hazafias, Kossuth, katona notakat enekeltunk -a himnusz/szozatra 
sajnos nem lehet menetelni (es a kommunistak kedveert bedobtunk a 
repertoirunkba egy par nemzetkozi, munkas, kommunista dalokat is)

Valoban Angyalfoldi vagy s nem valami muszka-foldi Istvan?

Laszlo
> aheringer > wrote
> > a 150 eves torok uralom alatt meglehetos vallas szabadsag volt
> Magyarorszagon.
> > (az en oseim is) erkezett Hollandiabol, ahonnan a spanyol inkvizicio elol
> 
> > menekultek.
> 
>     Nem hittem a szememnek amikor olvastam, hogy "a 150 eves torok uralom
> alatt meglehetos vallas szabadsag volt Magyarorszagon".  Ez egy tipikus
> tortenelmi eltorzitas amit a HUNGAY listan el lehet csusztatni, de itt nem
> hiszem.
>     A Torok hoditok szivessen lattak az olyan bevandorlokat akik
> segitsegevel le tudtak verni is kormanyozni a meghoditott kereszteny
> lakossagot.  En evvel nem dicsekednek.
>     Idezek egy par paragrafust (Sajnos angolul van irva.  Ha lesz idom
> leforditom magyarra.  Talan valaki mas jobban le tudna forditani.) abbol a
> ket oldalas reirasbol amit egy szerb professortol kuldott egy eve.  A
> szerbek uldeze nem hiszem, hogy sokkal mas volt mint a magyarok uldozese.
>     Ahogy olvastam ezt a leirast, erdekesnek tartottam, hogy ez a leiras a
> kommunizmus uralom alatti sorsunkat is nagyon jol leirja.  Amikor irtam a
> HUNGARY listan, hogy 1945-56 kozott a Himnuszt csak a templomban lehetett
> enekelni, ezek hazudozonak hivtak.  Az o kicsavart logikajuk szerint
> 1945-1956 kozott is vallas szabadsag volt.
> 
> Itt a szerb leirasbol egypar paragrafus:
> 
>     The conquered Christian populations were disarmed and dispossessed of
> all property, .................................

Kedves Gyuri!
Szerintem, Te, Mark, es en, ugyanazt mondogatjuk, mindd eggyik a maga
modjan.
Udv: Pista

In article > George Hollovary > 
writes:
>From: George Hollovary >
>Subject: Looking for UNICUM...
>Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 21:06:52 -0800

>Hello,

>Would anyone know of a company that sells the spirit called UNICUM and
>how to get in touch with them? Either direct order or through a licqueor
>store that would ship to Texas. 

>Tudna valaki egy vallalatrol amelyik arrulja az UNICUM-ot? Texasban
>lakom es szeretnek megrendelni egy vagy ket dobozzal. Mindegy hogy
>Amerikaban vagy mashol.

>George Hollovary


Bende es fia arulnak Unicum-ot, Fed-Ex szallitva.
$21.50/uveg  (0.75 liter)
Cim es telefonszam:

Bende and Son Salami Co., Inc.
875 Corporate Woods Pky
Vernon Hills IL  60061-3198
Tel: 1 847 913 0304
Fax: 1 847 913 001

On Wed, 19 Feb 1997 12:18:35, George Kovacs 
> wrote:
>
>Az tudom, hogy a "Contempt of Court" helyett a "biro'sa'g megse'rte'se"  miatt
 
>szoktak valakit megbirsa'golni, de e'n sem tudok a'ltala'nos megfelelo"t.

Hat a "birosag megsertese" inkabb "offense against the court" lenne, de
gondolom jobb szot a magyarban nem igen talalunk a "contempt"-re.
Erdekes, bar a magyar eleg gazdag nyelv, bizonyos angol szavakat nehez
jol leforditani magyarra.  Viszont valoszinuleg tobb olyan magyar szo
van amire nincs jo angol megfelelo.  Gondoljunk csak a "jar, megy" szo
kulonbozo formaira, s azok hangulatara (megyeget, suntorog, somfordal,
ogyeleg, stb.).

Jozsi

Go fuck yourself

Az AOLon (America Online)van egy MAGYAR szoba ahol talakozhatsz mas
hazankfiaival. "clikkelj a ROOMS gombon es utanna clikkelj a PRIVATE
gombon
es akkor ird BUDAPEST es mar ott is vagy. tobbnyire este van mozgas de
majdnem egesz nap talalsz valakit aki ki be ugral.,

MAKO a vilag kozepe.

Gustav Horvath wrote:
> 
> Kedves Istvan batyam,
> A dolgot nagyon leegyszerusitene ha meghataroznank, 
hogy ki es mi es fokepp miert m(M)agyar.

...............................................................................
................
Ez egy erdekes proposition. Tortenelembol tudom a torok
birodalom 150 eves magyar orszagi uradalmat es 
ethnologikai kovetkezmenyeit.

Csodalkozom hogy  senki sem emlitette a 'Tatarjaras'
kovetkezmenyeit a magyarsag higgitasaval (?)
kapscolatban.

Kerem irja valaki meg ha ez nem igy van, de valahogy
ugy emlekszem hogy Genghis Khan hordai kiirtottak, elhurcoltak
az akkori magyarok 75 % -at. Szoval ha ez igy van, akkor 
a mongolok nem voltak jobbal a torokoknel. Ennek ellenere 
semmit nem olvastam errol. ( Basically, they were not such a 
nice guys)  

 A tatarjaras utan, a kiraly Nagy Lajos hivott az orszagba 
ezer meg ezer embert, tobbnyire a kornyezo orszagokbol.

Ezeknek a leszarmozotjai sok esetben mar 'magyarnak'
tartottak magukat a Mohacsi csata idejen.

Ki Magyar , mi Magyar ? Ki Canadai ? Ki az Amerikai?
Nem tudom! Talan valaki mas tud ehhez szolni.

Egy biztos: Aki Magyar Orszagot allandoan negativen
kepviseli annak a neve, ahogy Petofi irta : "Sehonai bitang ember"
 -szerintem.

Hogy ne legyen felreertes, constructive criticism, ugy mint 
egy csaladban, kell hogy legyen! Ocsmany ragalmazas nem!

Persze akkor a vita indul, hogy mi a constructive 
criticism es mi a ragalmazas. 

Udv. 

                       Mark O.F.

In article > George Hollovary > 
writes:
>Subject: Looking for UNICUM...

Hoppa, elrontottam a fax szamot. Helyesen:

Fax: 1 847 913 0001

On 15 Feb 1997 23:32:58 GMT, "Istvan Lippai"
> wrote:

>Kedves Gustav!

>Udv: Istvan
>
Kedves listatarsak!
Nagy erdeklodessel olvastam a "torokidokbeni vallasszabadsag"-rol
szolo hozzaszolasokat. 
Elorebocsatom hogy nem vagyok tortenesz, nem is jartam magyar
iskolaba. Ezzel szemben nyugodtan mondhatom hogy a magyar tortenelmi
kerdesekben olvasott vagyok ugy magyar mint angol nyelven.
Velemenyem szerint a kerdes megvilagitasahoz ket kerdesre kell valaszt
keresni.
1. Mi a "vallas" mai es torokidokbeli megvilagitasban.
Peldaul, nemetorszagban a Hubbard-fele csoportra bizonyos
megszoritasokat irt elo a nemet kormany. Ezt eggyesek nagyon elitelik
mint a vallasszabadsagba utkozo eljaraskent. Ezzel szemben az USA-ban
ahol az alaptorveny a vallasszabadsagot biztositja egges varosokban
meg a karacsonyfat sem engedik meg peldaul a varosi parkban
felallitani.
2 Mit ertunk "a vallas szabad gyakorlata" alatt mai es a torokidokbeli
gondolkozasban.
Erre le kell szogezni hogy akkor az elv "religo princeps, ejus populi"
volt altalanos europaban.
Egy masik amit el kell fogadni az hogy erdely nem volt torok hodoltsag
alatt. Mohacs utan erdely onnalo fejedelemseg lett. Igaz hogy ez csak
a torokok beleggyezesevel tortenhetett es a fejedelem ezt megvasarolta
de erdely belugyeibe a Porta nem szolt bele. Erdekes hogy egy
erdelyi-i orszaggyules volt az elso europaban mely a "religo princeps,
ejus populi" elvet bar csak reszben fell lokte.
Az Unitarianus vallas majdnem kizarolag erdely-ben honos es igy nem
kerult a torokok hataskorebe.
A torok-megszalta magyarorszagon a torokok nem engedtek templomepitest
es azokat a kereszteny vallasokat uldozte melyek kozponti puspoki
vezetes alatt voltak. Ezek a Katolikus, Luteranus es Kalvinista
vallasok. Sokkal inkabb megturtek azokat a felekezeteket melyek
helyiek, kozponti vezetes nelkul voltak. Tobb protestans felekezet
ezek koze tartozott. Erre magyarazzhato az hogy voltak keresztenyek
sulyos uldozes allat es masok akik nagymeretu megtutseget elveztek.
A zsidok helyzete erdekes volt. Mint egy Isten-ben hivok megturtseget
elveztek altalaban nem csak magyarorszagon de mindenutt a torok
vilagban. Azon kivul az o kezukben volt a Porta kereskedekmenek nagy
resze ami megint egyeni vallasi turelemhez vezetett.

maradok igaz tisztelettel
Bogsanyi Denes

Etel Ital Tanc Uszomedence 135 acres Magyar elet. Hozd a satrad vagy
berelj szobat a tanyan. Rt 100 Hereford ket villanyoszlop a magyar zaszlo
szinere van festve ott fordulj be es menj Kb 1.5 mile a jobb oldalon a
tanya. latod a magyar cimert.

 E-mail ha kell tobb info

Kedves Denes!

A tortenelem az nem egy pontos tudomany.  Gondolom, hogy azok akiknek ez a
szakmalyuk azok tobb tortenelmi konyvet olvasnak mint mi.  Sok fugg attol,
hogy milyen eloitelettel tolmacsolod amit olvasol.

A leirasod erdekes volt, es koszonom a Te leckedet is.

Udv: Istvan

Szia Kiss Virag.
En kezdtem egy hirdetesi businesst  es ahogy en oldottam meg a penz ugyet
az ugy volt hogy vettem fel egy sales ladyt es akkor adtam neki commission
es salary es akkor egy honappal mieloot a nyomtatasra sor kerult kezdte el
a munkat. kis uzletekhez ment es elore felvette a hirdetesi penzt ami
aztan fedezte az o jovedelmet es a printing cost az publikacionak. 260
dollarral kezdtem (license, business cards "blanks" and 500 contracts that
I made up.
az elso ho vegen tobb mint $10,000 ezer dollar volt a kasszaban.

Jo szerencset ha kell tobb info akkor E-mail


MAKO a vilag kozepe