In article >,  (questra) wrote:
>
>Hi : Pelayo has uploaded the four goals that Spain scored against Malta on 
>Wednesday. You can download those and many more goals :

I don't have an objection to the sport itself, but I've sent a complaint to 
the  about this inappropriate article.  Please be sure to 
redirect your followups as the discussion is off-topic in soc.history.ancient.


  ++   ++   "Well Samwise: What do you think of the elves now?"
  ||\ /||                 
  || v ||ichael Martinez                    )
  ++   ++------------------------------------------------------

Hi : we had a fantastic first Live Coms for #arsenal in our new home, ISFAnet 
IRC Soccer Server. No lag to speak about and of course the impossiblility of 
netsplits as we are a single server for now.

Attendance was 35 at it's peak, and Live Coms were by MarcoN in his debut doing
 
Coms. According to MarcoN he can do Live Coms for away games for #arsenal and 
also other games for #soccer so it seems we now have in MarcoN someone that 
will take ISFAnet Live Coms by storm ! Well done MarcoN ! 

I was suprised to see him doing so well in his very first try and all fans 
present were very happy with his performance. As a result he now is a Chanop at
 
the IRCbury. :-)

We had no trouble from opposing fans even though we did have op2 (Liverpool), 
ManUtd (guess what team he supports) and the well known IRC Hooligan AngelRey 
(Universitario from Peru). But we were trouble free and following our friendly 
policy all fans are welcome so long as they respect Arsenal.

Coms were done at the new #stadium while chat was held at #arsenal, following 
the old tradition set at the late #arsenal at the Undernet. OzGooner (the 
IRCbury Page Webmaster) and Macca_ (with his entire sounds "arsenal"), TheGrid 
(TechGod himself), Seals (now an IRCbury AOP himself), GoonrGrrl, Vieira and 
all the regulars where there. 

Please remember that you can enter ISFAnet with a conventional IRC Client 
(mIRC, Pirch, etc) or by our Web Chat, which was used by a few of the fans 
present at the game.

Full info on ISFAnet : http://www.isfa.com/isfanet.html

NEXT GAME : WEDS FEB 19 ARSENAL vs MAN UTD AT 7:30 PM GMT.

Cheers !

PS remember to post your soccer views in the Arsenal Newsgroup (or start a new 
one yourself). For more info : http://www.isfa.com/newsgroups/

-- 
****************************
questra
ISFA Administrator
Winning is a state of mind.
http://www.isfa.com/
****************************

STRING - The end of the primitive age of collective power! 

You cannot believe in a world without collective power? A world without
military power, without state-power or clan-power, without economic
power or without the power of criminal organisations? You think (at
least deep in your heart) that power is necessary to give order to our
existing societies and for the fight against our bad enemies? Do you
know that all forms of collective power not at least depend on that
belief, on your belief?  
The political project STRING suggests you, to change this belief and to
help continuing and finishing the (r)evolution (starting already with
Old Greeks), which aims at comprehensively empowering the individuals
for political independence. 
In the end the independent individuals will replace all sort of
collective power, though on the public or discreet summits of the
"global players" nobody would take this for possible.

The most important first step to end collective power, is to establish
this new belief in yourself - the belief that on principle everybody is
able to renounce at collective power (which does not mean to renounce at
democratic institutions, like jurisdiction!). 
The most important argument for the target of an individualized
world-society is the judgement that - though the collective power is not
more primitive than the single man - men are in most cases to primitive
to fulfill responsibility for a great number of dependent people. (Once
again, this argument does not hit strictly functionalised institutions,
which are inaugurated and controlled by free individuals.) The greater
the size of traditional power-systems will become in our global
civilisation, the weaker they will be to maintain order and to take
responsibility for the conditions of living of the majority of people.
Therefore these structures have to be replaced by a new sort of power,
which is small and local in most material concerns, but global in mind -
the power of the moderne individual, STRING-Power. Otherwise our world
could lose its order and fall into chaos or into totalitarianism. An
exact description of STRING you can find on STRING-Homepage
(http://ip-service.com/Behr) under the title "STRING - The Individual
and World-politics".  

In fact the historical evolution towards empowering the individuals is
already taking place - more or less in all countries of the world. We
know it as the modern way of life! STRING wants to give a new lasting
form and a appropriate symbol to this great epoch-making process. And
STRING wants to make this process irrevocable by showing people how to
manage their new individual position. 
It is highly necessary, however, to do this, because after many wars,
after two world wars and being still equipped with many new
HighTech-weapons our world-society has not yet found a way out of the
period of collective destruction (war) - a period,  which could be
called the history itself. After the end of the Cold War we have lost
one big danger, but we have lost also a secure shelter. It is not
impossible that in the future big collectives might again be enough
crazy and criminal to fight wars, this time on a suicidal
ABC-weapon-level. Therefore we have to take the chance to build and
definitively establish a new world-order by realizing the fundamental
change of the oldest political paradigm, which is collectivity, towards
individuality, towards the political independence of the individual.
STRING´s compelling new policy and its innovative institutions could be
the way to do that.
   
In order to convince you of this political project, which is basing on
all people of the world, I present you a new discourse about the future
of mankind:


First Newsletter on STRING (Philosophy and Politics)

(second posting)



I. Politics

Traditional nation-states, which try to act on a global scale, are very
often faced with barriers, i.e. other states, which are equally
restricted by a defined territory, a limited number of people, limited
resources and so on.
When the globalisation of the human civilisation is in its final stage,
the world-wide activities or structures (resp. their protagonists) reach
political power, which are based on the most abstract and culturally
disconnected principles and thus fulfill the same function in every
society (think of the production and the use of a car). 
Therefore mathematics has become the secret global language of our
epoch. Mathematics and its fast slave, the computer, shape the progress
of nearly all sciences and technologies. And they are decisive
instruments of the economy as well as of its globalised markets.
Computer and mathematics give the current form of capitalism - which is
the dynamic integration of economy, science and technology - its
striking effect and its breath-taking acceleration. Today in no other
field a newcomer can conquer more power and can conquer it faster than
with economic success.

Doubtlessly we should be content that a more or less neutral systemic
process is about to organise mankind’s world-society and not the
ideological concepts of fundamentalist or even fascist style combined
with military power. But the question arises, whether our global society
after the long way of democratisation should end in the hands of one of
the last democraticly uncontrolled powers, which is the economy,
especially in its global financial dimension. 
This way of democratisation started in ancient Greece and Rome,
continued with the British „Habeas corpus“-act and the „Bill of rights“,
the great American and French constitutions (1787, 1791) and finally
lead to modern welfare states which have made the majority of people in
a country quite independent in their personal lives. 

Moreover, economic globalisation is contradictory in itself. If there
are no limits for capitalist activities and financial transactions
(which become more and more games of hazard), the permanent change of
market conditions will destroy the secure living of many people. Apart
from all social and human aspects of this evolution, there is the danger
that the mass markets may break down. But without mass markets the base
of economy (the world-wide turnover) will be largely diminished.
The prediction of a 20:80 society, where 20 % of highly productive
people shall poorly feed the rest, reminds me awkwardly of planned
economies of old socialist style. In the end there remains only one big
transnational world-company, which produces everything from jumbo-jets
to toilet-paper, from medicine to ballet-shoes - and only few have
enough money to buy these products. That is quite the opposite of an
active society and economy!! (Not to mention the totalitarian tendencies
of such a non-political world system.)

Basically we have here the problem of common properties, which should
not only include good air, water and soil, the climate, rain forests or
the stock of fish in oceans, but also the existence of well-functioning,
highly developed, cultural diversified and peaceful societies. The
world-society itself - in spite of all gaps and conflicts - already
begins to be such a value in itself, which should be cherished
intelligently. 
Tragically current economic management is influenced by a military
mentality, which is extremely self-centered and only follows the values
of conquering. This shift may have its origin in the Cold War or in the
strictly rationalist character of modern capitalism. Anyway, the economy
as today’s global leading power really does not seem clever enough for
the complex task of giving an appropriate political order to our
world-society. 

It is very important to understand that the power of these globalised
markets and its „global players“ is not as visible as traditional power
has been. This new power needs, for example, the traditional states -
who else could guarantee property? Further it depends highly on the fact
that the „rest of mankind“ keeps quiet and stays involved in the game.
We can even call it an „absent“ power, because it does not take
political, i.e. general responsibility for the societies. 

The „market“ as the main principle of world-order does not mean much
more than the dominance of the strongest, this time in our post-military
world. And again we can see the contradiction mentioned above: Modern
economic participants are highly individual, whether as producers or
consumers. But if the economy should replace politics instead of being
accompanied by politics, it cannot act according to its modern function.
It takes an ideological form: liberalism (which was the opponent of
socialism and therefore is a relict of the Cold War!). Finally it
destroys individuality (i.e. possibilities of acting freely) instead of
creating it.
From a historical point of view, the excessive relevance of economy is
the result of the big lack of political perspective for our world. The
traditional centres of power are paralysed or forced into defending
positions, because political actions according to historical traits and
patterns does not make sense any more (a situation which already exists
since the Cold War). The room for initiatives leaves more and more the
material spheres of power that is territories, resources and military
power. And capitalism is the candidate with the biggest advantage in the
new „Cyberspace-arena“ of the „global village“, because it offers the
best mixture between concrete and abstract elements. The great problem
of capitalism, however, is its tendency to lose contact with the life of
the individual, a life which essentially has slow, local and
non-rational aspects.

We need a new global, political perspective for our next steps -
independent from the economic globalisation (and in cooperation with
it!). This perspective could be found in the development of a peacefull
world community of mankind whose possibility begins to emerge in our
days after long decades of fighting and suffering. This community
becomes apparent when people show their compassion and help people at
the other end of the world. The belief in mankind’s greatness does not
mean to shut one’s eyes to hatred between the poor and the rich, between
victims and perpetrators or to innumerable front-lines, whether big or
small, all over the world. This belief wants to stress positive chances
of the world-society. 
Therefore we should create a great political world-event, a historic
moment, which is followed by a fantastic festival. These cannot be
spectacular enough to bring the world-wide human community into a
shining existence. This event should be the (temporarily limited)
institution of mankind and the apotheotic cultural culmination of all
people on earth.
We have the means to master such a great task and to realise such a
magnificent project. Many traditional institutions and activities of our
societies f.e. international organisations may help us. But in the end
only we ourselves, each of us and we all together could realize that
great political event. Only as individuals we are free and independent
enough to create a vivid community of man. No élite can represent or
replace us in this project! 

In this scenario the material security of all people gets a new sense
and will become again an important goal. We have to use our best skills
and all our energy to translate it into action. Only with material
independence as the basis of political freedom, or at least with a
concrete prospect on it, everybody could play his new political role in
a great new world-community. 
The situation of too many people in the world is still far from being
acceptable. Call it the lack of education, formation, work, or money,
call it the absence of initiative or chances - the experience of our
post-war period (since 1945) has shown that direct help - irreplaceable
as it is and remains - doesn’t really change the situation of the poor.
Individuals who wants to empower themselves for the task to become
independent, need a new attention to education, to social formation and
to the meaning of being an adult. And they need a new form of
distribution - not of welfare, but of the innovative progress.


II. Philosophy

The „weakness“ of the individual which is no longer supported by the
power of traditional collectives may be the standard by which mankind
can survive in the future. In its effect, this standard could be
compared with the prehistoric small groups, the standard by which
mankind has survived hundreds of thousands of years until the invention
of settledness. 
The „weak“ individual should be provided with the best personal
equipment, with sustainable means for survival even in hard conditions
and with a strictly functionalized institutional help. Of course he can
remain embedded in the culture and in the community of people next to
him. (Take a little bit of science fiction to imagine all this.) 
To find this individual „weakness“ we have to go back to one of our
oldest tools, the language. The infinite variability of language is like
an empty sheet of paper on which every man can „write his own text“. In
doing this, he can establish himselves as a unique spirit and an
independent, self-confident personality. People have to learn this
process of individualisation by language, which should be understood as
a new kind of initiation. Initiation could transform individual
„weakness“ into personal strength.

The language, which is the essential tool of abstract thinking, paved
the way for homo sapiens sapiens and has given him the means to create
his current appearance. And for about three thousand years the writing
of language has opened him the possibility to run bureaucratic
mega-societies of millions (meanwhile billions) of people. 
Nowadays, when the community of mankind is an incontestable, though
still unfinished reality, language could help us again. Its individual
dimension is the basis for transcending the law-based societies, which
subdivide mankind and which are apparently not able to bring the global
political situation into a durable order. Each of these societies,
whether a state, a transnational company, a church or any other
organisation is marked by its paranoia and its egoism. After the
experience of this century (120 millions of murdered people in KZ's,
Gulag's and other wholesale murders, perhaps the same number of killed
and murdered people in the numerous wars), the dominance of the
collectives can no longer represent the civilising progress, because it
includes a high risk of destruction and apocalypse. Collectives could
plunge billions of people into an abyss. 
Therefore we need a revolutionary change of the oldest political
paradigm, resp. of the oldest political priority, which is the
collective, towards the individual, towards the importance of every
single person. We will certainly not renounce the use of collective
institutions (and will pay tax for them), which run for example the
infrastructure, which maintain an operative but carefully controlled
police, a rational jurisdiction or the abstract system of money. We
should make them, however, as flexible and decentralized as possible.
And we should give the people - ourselves - that highest level of
independence from these strictly defined collective systems, an
independence, however, which still guarantees the functioning of these
systems.

The innovative progress of science, economy and technology could provide
us with the proper means for an individual local subsistence
(HighTech-Selfproviding), but only if we put political priority to local
subsistence. This will perhaps not happen at 100 %, but in the long run
there is no doubt about the possibility of such decentralized forms of
living - all over the world. Working for money should lose step by step
its compulsive character, but will remain a question of ethics, skill
and the diversification of live and work.
In addition, this concrete independence of man could be the most
important step to democratize economy. A company in which people - who
do not have to work - work voluntarily „has won an election“.

Our current problem is the lack of a concrete political will with a
global dimension, which would enable us to carry through such projects.
The short-sighted fight of big companies for hegemony cannot help us.
What we need is a new vision of our future. We are living in the „middle
of the ages“, because in these decades we have gained quite an exact
retrospective view of our origins and the origin of the world. This
retrospective view should give us a great idea of human life and should
show us by which principles we may manage our world in the future. A
philosophical approach to human life and to politics brings every single
person into the focus of historical interest as a mental and
self-determining individual. It withdraws authority from those big
monsters such as states, churches, organisations or oversized companies,
but also from old traditions. Furthermore it corresponds with the weak
position we have as a vulnerable species on that marvellous „space
shuttle“ called earth. In the hands of philosophy with its reflective
and reserved manner HighTech could solve our material problems.
Nowadays, however, under the yoke of narrow-minded and selfish
collectives, technology is abused and is already destroying the basis of
live of future generations. Our civilisation has enough potential to put
an end to the struggle for survival at any price (life or death), which
has become contra-productive for everybody. Suddenly the philosophical
„weakness“ turns into strength of mind!

The change of the paradigm of collectivity towards individuality cannot
be overrated and the so-called democratic societies have already taken
big steps in that direction. But for three reasons this is not enough to
build an reasonable world-order. Firstly the state-bureaucracies and the
collective power of democratic societies still have, in fact, priority
over citizens, a common feature of all political systems. Secondly, all
the states together have not prevented the rise of non-controlled, more
or less dangerous, transnational powers, such as huge companies or
investment funds, or criminal organisations. Thirdly the democratic
societies still could not reach the level, on which all their own
citizens would have enough opportunities to subsist out of their own
power. 

I am convinced that the strong political form of individuality, as I
have indicated here, is the only way to give an acceptable order to our
world-society, because it does not impose a hegemony upon anybody. To
bring the individual into power is a question of the world-wide vote for
individuality in the world-event described above. And it is a question
of the peaceful continuation of a modern development of the world. But
in the end it is up to every person, to every woman and every man, to
claim this individual status and to fill it with life. 

With the concept of the individual and its present importance I do not
intend to address nations, religious or cultural communities, companies
or other collective entities. I intend to address other individuals, to
address you as individual - not as a representative of a collective! My
intention is the foundation of a revolutionary new way of life, which
starts with the world-event, the existence of politically independent
individuals and the modern initiation as the three sides of the new
world-constitution. I call this constitution STRING. In accordance with
Lewis Mumford we can call our present worldsystem a „mega-machine“.
Perhaps this „hardware“- period is inevitable, but now we have to
dematerialize mankind’s integration.     

The people who have power and responsibility in societies all over the
world are not at all unburdened by STRING. It is just the opposite, the
situation of the world is highly sensitve and dangerous - in some
countries it seems even desperate and hopeless -, therefore we need
everybody to transform our extraordinary global civilisation into a
stable, free and living community. STRING does not replace efforts for
improvement and progress, but wants to complete these on a very
fundamental level. STRING offers no guarantee for success!   
We cannot obtain ideal objects, perfect worlds (they are without life!).
We are dependent on slow changes - big upheavels include a risk of
catastrophes, which cannot be estimated. It is high time we find a
long-term perspective in our global activities - and there is no serious
alternative to the political and economic (material) authorization of
the individual. 
Politics finally has to follow culture. For whom have Beethoven, Frank
Zappa or Shin-ichi Matsushita written their music? For a nation-states?
For privat persons? 
No, not at all, but for individuals as the composers are or have been
themselves - and sometimes for the whole mankind!

Kedves Balazs!
    Bocsanat ha kellemetlenseget okoztam.  Monoki Lajossal veszekedtem. 
Remelem, hogy most mar vege lessz a vitanak, es tobbet nem latod a Monoki
nevet.
    Tudtad, hogy ment a szavazas kommunizmus alatt?.  Azert irtam, mert
gondolom, hogy a fiatalok nem tudtak.
 Udv: Istvan

SteinwayB > wrote in article
>...
> Masodizben olvasom a "Monoki" nevet es nem a legjobb megvilagitasban.
> Mivel ismerek egy parat kozuluk, sot, a tukorben is latok egyet, 
emellett
> nagyon sok nekem es csaladomnak fontos ember szinten ismeri a nevet,
> kerlek a jovoben hasznald a keresztnevet is, hogy megkulonboztetest
> lehessen tenni. 
> Koszonom,
> Monoki Balazs
>

Csak azert is!, hogy bebizonyitsam: vagyok olyan mint barki
e csoportban: hozzaszolasomnak semmi koze sincs a "fiu"-hoz,
nekem meg a nyelveszethez.
Csak szeperzekem is van az igazsag-erzetem mellett.
Joskam (?), miert nem forditod a szot irodamibbra, a "pasas"
szo Krudynal es Marainal mint "pasaser" eri el irodalmi
zenitjet :-). Hasonlokepen ajanlhatom az "urge", muki,
mufurc, tag, szivar, stb. es etc. szavakat is. ;-)
Szeretettel: 




 () wrote:

>Ha van egy nyelvesz vagy hasonlo a vonalban, szeretnem ha kisegeitene a
>a fiu szavunk eredetevel kapcsolatban.  Amint lathattatok az egyik
>cikksorozatban, egy pasas azt allitja,

Üdvözletemet küldöm Canadából.
az internet-nek uj tagja vagyok es szeretnek levelezni magyarokkal.
mar 20 eve van annak, hogy elhagytam az orszagot es ugy gondolom
igy az internet segitsegevel talalok levelezo partnerokat.
Vácon szulettem, ha akad valaki arrol a kornyekrol varom valaszodat

tibor

On Fri, 21 Feb 1997 11:43:50 -0800, Erika Kiss > wrote:
>
>Esetleg van valami kifogasod ultizo holgyek ellen? Ki allitja hogy csak 
>ferfiak tudnak ultizni? 

A vilagert sincs kifogasom, csak hat en nem emlekszem, hogy valaha
is lattam volna noket ultizni.

That's all,

Joe Pannon
------------
REMINDER: Please correct my e-mail address in any personal reply 
by removing from it the "antiSPAM." portion.  I have altered my address
in the hope of defeating address grabbing SPAM software.  Thanks. JP

Kedves Othoni Magyarok!

Biztos ti is tudtok az amerikai O.S. Simpson bunugyi es polgar jogi
targyalasairol.  A bunugyi targyalast atcsuszta, a polgari targyalason
elkaptak.

Ugy hallottam, hogy valamilyen megegyezes volt a hatalom atadasanol Magyar
orszagon ami miat a kommunista gyilkosokat nem tudjatok megbuntetni.

Ha ez igas is, miert nem tudjak az olyan magyarok akik a kommunizmus alatt
szenvedtek (10 millio honfitars) a kommunista gyilkosokat es rablokat
polgari uton beperelni?

Legalabb a magas nyugdijaikat es a palotaikat, amit a nep verebol
szereztek, el kene venni toluk.

Udv: Istvan

Igor GAZDIK > wrote 
> 	the writer whose name is above is really testing our nerves
> 	and intellects by expecting everybody to understand ciganul.
> 	would not keeping it in the madar section be more than           
>         sufficient?

I did not realize that my comment went to lists other than the
'soc.culture.magyar' list.  Upon reading the addresses, I noted that my
response also went to the Slovak list.  It was a mistake.

Only a moron like 'Igor GAZDIK' would try to attack all Hungarians with his
racists comments because of an innocent mistake.

In the future, I will make absolutely sure that my response does not end up
on lists inhabited by racist morons.

Sincerely, Istvan Lippai

Kedves Gustav!
    Amint elozoleg is probaltam kimutatni, a tortenelmi vitak kapcsolataban
fontos tudni, hogy mi a hatteruk azoknak akik vitatkoznak es irogatnak
tortenelemrol.  A teknikai teruleten nincs ilyen problema.  2+2=4. 
Megismerkedtem rengeteg teknikai emberrel a volag minden talyarol. 
Armenian, Chinese, Croat, German, Greek, Iranian, Jordanian, Indonesian,
Korean, Serb,...  Ezeknek az embereknek se volt tortenelmi hatteruk, es
csupan
az elet tapasztalataik alapjan itelkeztek.  Mint teknikai akademikusok,
mindeg vigyaztak, hogy az tenyeket ne nagyon forditgassak ki.
    Ezert vagyok melehetosen biztos, hogy amit a szerb professor kuldott
nekem az megbizhato informacio.  Csalodtam benned, hogy mint tortenesz, nem
akartad tudni ennek a leirasnak az eredetet, es a tobbi reszet.
    A masik probleman a 'targyilagos' leirasoddal, hogy torok
buncselekmenyeket elbocsatod a 'katonai dolog'-kent.  Azt tudom hogy, az
altalad
emlitett 'Bernhard Lewis' az altalam emiltett tortenetiro kurvakhoz
tratozik.  A torok allam nagy penzekkel tamogatja a munkajat.
    Nagyon szeretnem tudni, hogy Te kapsz e vagy kaptal tamogatast a torok
alamtol.  Ezt azert veszem jogosnak kerdezni mert volt tobb kijelentesed
amelyikben
partolod a muzulmanok kereszteny uldozeset es megveteset.

Szerb:  They were called "giours" and in the mass the "rayah,""the herd."  
Gustav: Sajnos azok voltak, mint ahogy tobbseguk az ma is.

    A torokok a magyarokat is gyaurnak (hitetlennek) hivjak.  Szerinted mi
is hitetlen csurhek vagyunk?
Udv: Istvan

u.i.  Koppany Vezer bennem is felkelt sovargast az osi magyar vilag utan. 
Amikor a Magyarok Istenehez fohazkodok az oseink vilagat erzem a szivemben.
 Ugyanakkor Szent Istvan es nem az apjat tartom nemzet alapitonak.  At
kellet venni a kereszteny vallast, mert kulonben kiirtottak volna benunket
es most nem levelezgetnenk.  Szent Istvan-n bolcs volt, es azt tette ami a
nemzetunk jovojet biztositotta.

In article >, 
 says...
>
>My personal favorite is Csilla (chilla).  
>
>Kristof


I also forgot about Piroska

Agnes

 (Leszek Andrzej Kleczkowski) wrote:
>...<deleted>

>Recently, there has been a rush of diplomatic activity directed at
>discrediting the will of Eastern Europe countries to join NATO.
>Unfortunately, much like during the cold war era, there is no shortage of
>Western leftists called to come out of the woods to preach the Russian
>line of arguments, disregarding legitimate security worries of the
>countries which were under soviet yoke for so long.

>...<deleted>
>
>Kurica nie ptica, Polsza nie zagranica?	
>
>Leszek

Hey Leszek:

The NATO syndrome seems to be the most popular topic in the soc.culture
groups throughout the whole spectrum of former Warsaw pact members...
"East Europeans" go out of their way to accuse Russians of "discrediting"
their homelands... In their "sincere and free-willed desire" to marry the 
mighty neigbor (who by pure chance just happens to be wealthy as well) 
they simply ignore the simple truth --- there's no such a thing in
world politics as compromising one's own interests in favor of 
weaker competitors. Grow up, guys -- look around! The human world is
pivoting around the axis called balance of power. All this talk of
supporting democracy is only a well-crafted excuse for Western
powers to increase their influence anywhere where it can be done without
inflicting harm upon themselves...
The West expands by taking control of economies of the "assimilated"
countries -- Central/South America is a good example of how much
the democracy talk is worth. This is quite reasonable from the
stronger party's position...Why not? They come (troops, companies),
bring along stability... Do you sincerely believe that all this happens
at no cost to the "saved"? Well, if you consider losing national dignity
and control over your own assets a small cost, if it is okay with you -
go ahead, join NATO, but please don't scream that loud. Your screaming
is simply pathetic. "We have the right to decide our own destiny" --
that sounds a joke when you deal with Americans. They don't like losers -
maybe some of you haven't figured it out yet but you look like the ones
to them. As for Russians... Even power-thirsty commies let you run
your own economies... Don't expect it from you new masters.  
     
Yuri
>
>                                      
>                                                 
>

#In article >, 
 says...
#>
#>Gustav Horvath > wrote 
#>> You are right. Nobody want's Austria back.
#>> Gusztav
#>
#>Meg kene pofoznom magam, hogy ebren vagyok e!  Gusztavval eggyet ertek!
#>Istvan
#

	the writer whose name is above is really testing our nerves
	and intellects by expecting everybody to understand ciganul.
	would not keeping it in the madar section be more than           
        sufficient?

Ne marakodjatok (gyulolkodjetek?) mar olyan hangosan (ez
tobbeknek szol ezen a listan). Ugrassatok egymast,
javitsatok egymast, tanitsatok egymast. Ha piszkot akarok
olvasni, akkor a MOKAra megyek.
Jol esett figyelmed, Istvan. Balogh Eva nem biztos, hogy
eszrevette, hogy mennyire sutaul hallatszik amit mond.
Fiatal, talan elvesztette a hallasat, avagy ki sem
fejleszthette egy amerikanizalt, es ugyancsak
elszlavosodott, aszfaltjaro nyelv-kornyezetben. Ket- harom,
es meg tobb, generacioval oelotte germanizmus tette sukette
a fuleket a magyar nyelv finomsagaira.
S ha mar a nyelvrol van szo, mindenkinek a ket listan
ajanlom, hogy ussek fel:
http://umann.hu.net/dalok/Kala1ka/song_Bicskei_e1nek.html
karacsony elott talaltam, s azota mar tobbszor visszamentem
ujra es ujra elolvasni. A tobb tucatnyi dzsingo (?) kozott
nem talalsz egyet sem, amely koltoisegben, nyelvi
szepsegeben vetekedhet ezzel a paranyi dallal, amit az osi
dallam meg kedvesebbe es naivabba tesz. 
Remelem, ezt a lelkiseget megtartjatok Karacsonytol
Karacsonyig.
Udvozollek: Dominus

Kedves Dominus!
Megneztem a dalocskat.  Gyerek koromban halhattam, mert ismeros volt. 
Koszonom.
Udv: Istvan

On Tue, 18 Feb 1997 13:14:40 -0800, Erika Kiss > wrote:
>Kiegeszites keppen 10 filleres alapon:
>
>parti 10 f
>piros parti 20 f (piros mindig dupla)
>ulti 40 f + nyert parti eseten 10 f
>piros ulti 80 f + nyert parti eseten 20 f
>betli 50 f

Mi a szo~sz!  Holgyek is szoktak ultizni?

PJ

Ady Endre versen sokat gondolkoztam amikor, 1978 ban, az Ellis Island 
foepuletenek a tetejet tataroztuk.  Akkor meg az epuletek nagyon el voltak
hanyagolva es csak egy fel tucat munkas dolgozott a teto javitasaval.  Mint
a Nemzeti Park kepviseloje, azert voltam felelos, hogy a teto rendessen
legyen meg javitva.  Par evvel utana az epuletet gyonyoruen kitataroztak.
    Eleg sok idom maradt az epuletben barangolni, a gyengen vilagitott
pinceben is.  Erezni lehetett a bevandorlok lelket.  Sokat gondolkoztam
azokra a magyarokra akik abban az idoben jottek az uj vilagba.  Ezeknek
rettenetes kemeny eletuk volt, de a gyerekeikert el viseltek a
nyomorusagot.  A gyerekek kozul, nemelyik teljessen beolvadt, nemelyik meg
a mai napig is ismeri es tiszteli a magyar hagyomanyokat.
    Tudatom szerint, en meg a Batyam voltunk az elso Lippaik Szeged
kornyekerol.  Gondolom, hogy masoknak vannak rokonaik akkik az Ellis
Island-on keresztul erkeztek ide.  Nekik sokkal nehezebb eletuk volt mint
nekunk.  Van ezekrol a magyarokrol valahol leiras?
Istvan

Gustav Horvath > wrote
 > Hello Russkie,
> Mi eddig ugy gondoltuk, hogy a totok eleg jol ertenek "ciganul".
> Azert is mert a szinten arja cigan(y)okhoz hasonloan az INDO-Europai 
> nyelvcsaladba tartoznak.I have noted that you have picked-up some English

> already.I you wish to advence further in your lingustic studies please
read a 
> few books that were published in this language. By doing so you would
discover 
> that the language of the Turanian Madjars (a tot-ciganyokkal ellentetben)

> belongs to the Ural-Altaic/Finno-Ugric family. 
> By the way: Nobody want's Austria back ...,
> Cheers, Gusztav    
 
Nem is tudnam mitcsinalnek segitseged nelkul.  Latom, hogy ugy be gurultal,
hogy a magyart angolt osszkeverted.  Persze en ezt sokszor csinalom. 
Latom, hogy ez nem megy a szlovak listara.  Nem is erdemes veluk marakodni.
 Tudunk mi marakodni nelkuluk is.  Nagyon jol el szorakoztattok
Halas koszonettel: Istvan

In article >, Wally Keeler wrote:

> In article >, 
>  says...
> >Angol:
> >I do not understand your last two messages.  
> 
> That's ok.

Of course it's OK, since you'd probably contradict it in your next
message. Before you fly off raving and ranting about the faults of other
people, maybe you should take care of your own hypocrisy and prejudices? 
Come on Wally, give it a try. You seem like a nice guy. Even when you try
to be rude, your writings show you have little concept of what is
considered rude, and that's cute. 

Gabor

Kedves Scott,
szervusz!
En mar egy oregur vagyok, es nem is Magyarorszagon (de azert
megis irok, hogy lassad: azert nem hanyagolnak el teljesen
azok a magyarok), annyira oreg, hogy mar az ekezetek is
lekoptak az ekezetes betuimrol. El tudod azert olvasni?
A Web-oldaladat mar korabban akartam megnezni, de a
bongeszom nem talalja a < www.vanisle.net > szerverjet.
Remelem, jelentkeznek majd fiatalabb levelezok is.
Udvozollek:
Dominus



Scott Whitelaw > wrote:

>Szervusz, es jo napot! Scott Whitelaw vagyok, es 14 eves vagyok. 
>I live in Canada, and would like to have as MANY Hungarian friends as 
>humanly possible! I love your country so much, even though I have NEVER 
>been there (that will soon change as I am visting Hungary in August!!!!).

>	I have been learning the language for three years, so I can 
>understand a great deal of what is being said on this newgroup of yours. 
>Please, if any of you are interested, reply to this message, and we can 
>begin a pen-pal friendship!

>	Koszonet szepen!

>			Scott








>*****************************************************************
>Köszönöm szépen ("Thank you very much" in Hungarian)
>Bob/Liz/Scott Whitelaw

>E-Mail - 
>Phone - (604) 721-2108
>Fax - (604) 721-0668

>Victoria, Canada
>*****************************************************************

In article > ,
 writes:
>I was asking you if the song also mentioned where those Walachians were
>from?  I did that because most of your effort seems to be here to prove
>the Daco-Roman Continuity theory.

Joe,

I missed the earlier threads (does not matter) so I don't know what
exactly you are talking about. I just want to mention that I have the
Niebelung Songs on my shelf (original text plus German translation).
I can look it up for you.

Tamas

Bravo!  Ezt mondanunk kell a vilagnak.  En nem is Magyar vagyok, de
egyeterzem veled.  En is tul fiatal vagyok ahhoz hogy jelentsen valamit
"grof, stb."  De abban az orszgban tanultam a nyelvet ahol Magyar nep
nemscak genealogiarol van szo.  Isten aldd meg a magyart jo kedvvel...

Kristof Jones

) writes:
> On Wed, 12 Feb 1997 17:37:11 -0500, Gabor Barsai
> wrote:
>>Come on Wally, give it a try. You seem like a nice guy. Even when you try
>>to be rude, your writings show you have little concept of what is
>>considered rude, and that's cute.
>
> Sounds like an olive branch, don't you think, Wally?  It's about time
> for you, guys!
> Joe

Well I suppose if Hungary&Romania can sign a basic treaty
we could at least Tri It On ;-)