Having heard you all talk about your roles in the events of 1956, and how
today's Hungarian youth doesn't really know what went on, I was wondering
what everyone out there thought about the tole of students in the
political movements today in Hungary, as well as the rest of East
Central Europe. As an American student, I myself feel a lot of apathy
and cynicism towards politics and the like (even though I study in
Washington, DC).  Is it as easy to ignore politics in societies that have
changed so drastically as those in Hungary and surrounding countries?

Do you think that youth has played an important role in the events of the
past ten years?


Thanks,
Pam Norton


P.S. Although this is an interesting topic for me, I am also trying to do
some research on it...  Does anyone know of any Internet/Computer
resources for Eastern European youth?

At 11:27 AM 10/26/96, Pamela Norton wrote:
>Having heard you all talk about your roles in the events of 1956, and how
>today's Hungarian youth doesn't really know what went on, I was wondering
>what everyone out there thought about the tole of students in the
>political movements today in Hungary, as well as the rest of East
>Central Europe. As an American student, I myself feel a lot of apathy
>and cynicism towards politics and the like (even though I study in
>Washington, DC).  Is it as easy to ignore politics in societies that have
>changed so drastically as those in Hungary and surrounding countries?
>
>Do you think that youth has played an important role in the events of the
>past ten years?
>
>
>Thanks,
>Pam Norton
>
>
>P.S. Although this is an interesting topic for me, I am also trying to do
>some research on it...  Does anyone know of any Internet/Computer
>resources for Eastern European youth?


Hungarian college and university students are quite active on the Internet.
Go to the home page for Hungary connect to the the group that interest you.
There are a few student journals on line. Most of the information is in
Hungarian.

Good luck!

Peter I. Hidas

Dear George, somewhere in the greater past I seem to remember having read
postings by you I agreed with.  Even this time, I am gratified that you
agree with me on the effect of Foehn on suicide.  It was also clearly
evident when the 'investors' on the New York Stock Exchange started jumping
from the windows at the time of the Crash (have you ever heard of that?), I
believe in 1929.  Why does somebody post an idiocy like this, and ridicule
it if somebody shows up that idiocy?
If you think that the life in Hungary was as good in the last 500 years as
yours at your peabrained address in England, that's your privilege.  Do you
really think, that the only postings on this list acceptable by you in your
ivory towers are those which use four letter words and address their fellow
posters as variants of morons?  Well, now I applied such epithets to you,
so maybe now you accept me in your august fraternity.

Karoly

not depressed.

Karoly

Hmm... On Habsburgs... As I see it, the Habsburgs gradually took control
of Hungary after the Ottomans had begun to relinquish their strongholds.
(c. late 1600s). Regardless of the blood shed by Zrmnyi Ilona's armies at
Munkacs and Rakoczi Ferenc's armies in the Kuruc Wars, the Austrians
smothered the Magyars. Of course it was all for a territorial reasons,
the Habsburgs' wanted to expand like many other empire-states in History.
I admit I know little of treaties and economic goals of the Habsburgs'
with regards to Hungary but I do have something to point out... After the
Szabadsagharc of 1848-1849 with the Magyar defeat by the Russians, the
Austrians wanted once and for all to extinguish the Magyar spirit. This
culminated in the execution of the 13 generals/statesmen at Arad as well
as the reign of terror of Bach (not the composer) and Haynau. To keep off
world outrage, the Habsburgs' began to describe their victims as the
relatives of uncivilized peoples (in those days, the Lapps and
Finno-Ugric people of the Urals, NE Europe and NW Siberia). In fact there
was (and there still is) truth in this statement as linguists had pointed
out to believable proofs and  correspondances. However, before this
propaganda, the Magyars had always believed themselves to be descendants
of the Scythians, Huns Avars and Sumerians. Not hunting/fishing folk in
the Ural Mountains.

To me the Magyars are descendants of the former group and I strongly
stand by this. The languages of the Finno-Ugrians, Huns, Avars,
Magyars as well as Mongols, Turks and Manchus radiated from a
common source - Sumerian.

However, the Habsburgs' intended to humiliate and reduce the "inferior"
Magyar to the lowest level by comparing them to primitive and illiterate
food-gatherers. Anyone who contradicted this statement was decried as
chauvanistic and un-scientific. Habsburg scholarships were handed out to
young Magyars in an effort to further propogate this biased view. Even
today, this theory of Finno-Ugrianism is still around and perhaps it
could inspire some Magyars if they knew their descendants were Scythians,
Huns, Avars or Sumerians. Thus, while the Habsburgs' tried to turn the
Magyars into subservient slaves, they also realized that it was the
Magyar peasant who harvested the wheat that made up Austrian bread. I
have typed something like this before on SCM and those of you who
remember me can either laugh at or laud me...

Peter Chong

In article >,  says...
<snip>.. the
>Austrians wanted once and for all to extinguish the Magyar spirit. This
>culminated in the execution of the 13 generals/statesmen at Arad as well
>as the reign of terror of Bach (not the composer)..<snip>..

As a matter of fact, I read (perhaps in Groves) years ago that the lineage
of the Bach family (of musical fame) originated in (what is today) Hungary.
Is there a musical historian out there who can corroborate (or otherwise)
this?

--
George Szaszvari, DCPS Chess Club, 42 Alleyn Park, London SE21 7AA, UK
Planet Earth, Milky Way Galaxy * ICPUG..C=64 * ARM Club..Acorn * NWLCC

Archive-name: hungarian/pointer
Soc-culture-magyar-archive-name: pointer
Bit-listserv-hungary-archive-name: pointer
Version: 0.90 (beta)
Posting-Frequency: monthly
Last-modified: 1995/11/21
URL: http://hix.mit.edu/hungarian-faq/hungarian-faq-pointer

 This document summarizes network-related resources of Hungarian
interest, which are accessible via email. Some of the most readily
available sources of information can be found in the archives of
periodical information postings to Usenet; these documents are commonly
known as FAQs (from Frequently Asked/Answered Questions). Knowing the
name of the file you can retrieve it by sending email to
 with the command "send
usenet/news.answers/<ARCHIVE-NAME>" in the message (without the quotes,
and with substituting the actual name for <ARCHIVE-NAME> in the pattern
shown above) - for example, to get the document described below, use

 send usenet/news.answers/hungarian-faq

 To learn more about the RTFM server just send the command "help" to it
- it will provide step-by-step intstructions on how to use the
archives, on retrieving indexes and so on.

 "Hungarian electronic resources FAQ" is a comprehensive collection
dealing with email, FTP, WWW and other Internet tools; its archive name
is 'hungarian-faq' (and the mail-server command to get it is shown in
the example above).
 If you only have direct access to email then, in order to use the
other tools, you'll need the methods described in "Accessing The
Internet By E-Mail" (Archive-name:
internet-services/access-via-email).
 To get a general introduction to Usenet (with some guides to Internet
as well - and explanation of how they are different, too) see "Welcome
to news.newusers.questions!" (Archive-name: news-newusers-intro).
 For a guide to finding someone's e-mail addresses, see the "FAQ: How
to find people's E-mail addresses" (Archive-name: finding-addresses).
Do notice that it's usually inappropriate to send such blanket requests
to mailing lists; the search tools available give much better chance to
locate addresses sought than posted queries in any case!
 An overview of commercial on-line services in Hungary is available by
John Horvath >
(Archive-name: hungarian/comm-providers).

 The hungarian-faq describes several email lists related to Hungary;
only a brief summary is shown here. Please keep in mind that
subscription requests (and other administrative communications) should
be directed to the server address, NOT to the lists themselves.

Server: 
 List:  (the HUNGARY LISTSERV list)

Server: 
 List: HOL (Hungary Online)

Server: 
 List: hungary-report

Server: 
 Lists: OMRI-L (Open Media Research Institute Daily Digest)
        MIDEUR-L (Middle European discussion list)

Server: 
 List: cet-online (Central Europe Today On-Line; email )

Server: 
 List: CERRO-L (Central European Regional Research Organization)

Server: email to  (Hollosi Information Exchange)
 Lists: HIX is a collection of several separate lists, including
  - MOZAIK, a collection of news items in English
  - various discussion forums in Hungarian language
  - SCM and HUNGROUPS, which are email-accessible archives of the Usenet
    newsgroup soc.culture.magyar and the hun.* national hierarchy,
    respectively; to get a directory listing of these archives (as well
    as that of other HIX lists), send email to  with
    "arch" in the 'Subject:' line. Note that the SENDDOC utility takes
    its parameter from the 'Subject:' of the message (unlike many other
    servers, like the ones described previously, which use the body)!

 Note that this document is available on the
 <http://hix.mit.edu/hungarian-faq/>; homepage for the "Hungarian
electronic resources FAQ" at the HIX WWW-server.
 The latter also provides access for the full FAQ via
 'finger ', and for this brief pointer you are
reading via 'finger ' (notice that you
will likely need to redirect the output to a pager or a file in order
to read it). The Usenet archive name for this document is
 hungarian/pointer .

--
 Zoli , keeper of <http://hix.mit.edu/hungarian-faq/>;
 <'finger '>
 NOTE: spamsters and bulk emailers see 'X-Policy*:' in the
header for the charges to be imposed for net abuse!

At 11:27 AM 10/26/96 -0400, Pamela Norton wrote:
>Having heard you all talk about your roles in the events of 1956, and how
>today's Hungarian youth doesn't really know what went on, I was wondering
>what everyone out there thought about the tole of students in the
>political movements today in Hungary, as well as the rest of East
>Central Europe. As an American student, I myself feel a lot of apathy
>and cynicism towards politics and the like (even though I study in
>Washington, DC).  Is it as easy to ignore politics in societies that have
>changed so drastically as those in Hungary and surrounding countries?
>
>Do you think that youth has played an important role in the events of the
>past ten years?

        I'm glad that you ask this question because I have been thinking
about saying something about the state of affairs of the association of
university students. The association was quite active a couple of years ago,
trying to defend the status quo; that is, the student association tried to
resist the introduction of college tuition. They were not altogether
successful. Tuition was introduced, but the students received some
assurances that the tuition would not go up for a while and there would be a
ceiling. The president of the association was criticized for "caving in" to
the government and in turn he resigned. Since then the association, under
new leadership, seems to have fallen under the influence of the extremes of
the political opinions, both right and left. The latest demonstration was
pretty much a flop and the sixty-year-olds were better represented than the
eighteen to twenty-two year olds. Thus, this particular student association
is not fulfilling its proper role.

        Otherwise, I think that young people are fairly apathetic when it
comes to politics. The ones I know hardly read the papers and don't quite
understand the issues.

        As for the role of young people in the 1980s, I am hoping that
someone else will be able to enlighten you, someone who knows the beginnings
of the FIDESZ (Young Democratic Party), whose leadership came exclusively
from the ranks of students, mostly law students.

        Eva Balogh


>
>
>Thanks,
>Pam Norton
>
>
>P.S. Although this is an interesting topic for me, I am also trying to do
>some research on it...  Does anyone know of any Internet/Computer
>resources for Eastern European youth?
>
>

In article >,
   (Maria Hetenyi) wrote:

I know two hungarian channels #hungary and #magyar but those are for
high school or college students.
>
>

Why don't you open your own channel? Here's some ideas:
#budapest
#pecs
#sziasztok!

Anything's possible. All you have to do is type   /join #pecs (or whatever)
People will come in easily enough once they've done a /list.

At 03:23 AM 10/26/96 GMT, Peter Chong wrote:
>Hmm... On Habsburgs... As I see it, the Habsburgs gradually took control
>of Hungary after the Ottomans had begun to relinquish their strongholds.
>(c. late 1600s). Regardless of the blood shed by Zrmnyi Ilona's armies at
>Munkacs and Rakoczi Ferenc's armies in the Kuruc Wars, the Austrians
>smothered the Magyars. Of course it was all for a territorial reasons,
>the Habsburgs' wanted to expand like many other empire-states in History.

        Hmm.... The Habsburg dynasty inherited the throne quiet
legitimately. Louis II of Hungary--also of Bohemia-Moravia--died at the
Battle of Mohacs and without issue. His wife was the sister of Ferdinand
Habsurg and there existed a family pact which stated that if either
Ferdinand or Louis II died without issue the other would inherit the thrones
of Hungary as well as Bohemia-Moravia. And by the way, the Turks were
expelled mostly due to the Hasburg armies.

        As for the rest, that is your fantastic description of Habsburg
hatred of the Hungarians because they considered them inferior, is simply
hogwosh. So is, I am afraid, the Sumerian connection.

        Eva Balogh

For the benefit of all those of Hungarian ancestry who can't read the
original I am sending this beautiful translation by Watson Kirkconnell
(a Canadian):

National Song  ----- Sandor Petofi 1848

Magyars rise your country calls you!
Meet this hour whate'er befalls you!
Shall we  freemen be, or slaves?
Chose the lot your spirit craves! -
        By Hungary's holy God
        Do we swear,
        Do we swear, that servile chains
        We'll no more bear!

Slaves, alas, we long have been,
Shaming our ancestral kin,
They as freemen lived and died;
Captive graves their bones deride.
        By Hungary's holy God
        Do we swear,
        Do we swear, that servile chains
        We'll no more bear!
Vile is he who will not give
Life to let his country live,
Counting his poor breath a prize
Dearer than his native skies!
        By Hungary's holy God
        Do we swear,
        Do we swear, that servile chains
        We'll no more bear!
Swords are nobler than the fetter-
Suit the free-born arm far better.
Yet we've worn harsh chains and chords.
Give us now our faithful swords!
        By Hungary's holy God
        Do we swear,
        Do we swear, that servile chains
        We'll no more bear!
Beauty to the Magyar name
Shall return, and ancient fame
That these evile epochs sully
We shall cleanse in battle fully.
        By Hungary's holy God
        Do we swear,
        Do we swear, that servile chains
        We'll no more bear!
Where our grassy graves shall sleep,
Children's children still shall keep
All our names in sacred trust,
Kneeling bless our silent dust.
        By Hungary's holy God
        Do we swear,
        Do we swear, that servile chains
        We'll no more bear!

Reference:
Watson Kirkconnell (1895-1977)
Acadia University, Nova Scotia
Hungarian Helicon
Published by the Szechenyi Society Inc.
Calgary, Alta., Canada 1986


Eva Kende B.Sc. author of "Eva's Hungarian Kitchen".

There is a very well known historical event: Laszlo V (the
Posthumous; 1444-1457) treacherously going back on his word beheads the
young head of the House of Hunyadi, Laszlo, brother of Matthias, in Buda
(March 16, 1457). The event was made widely known by a mid-nineteenth
century Hungarian opera, Laszlo Hunyadi by Ferenc Erkel.

        Now, I am going to ask our contributors to give us the background of
this event. What were the events leading up to this treacherous beheading?
Please don't consult a book; just rely on your general knowledge of
Hungarian history. Thanks.

        Eva Balogh

At 05:14 PM 10/26/96 -0600, you wrote:
>
>In article >,
>   (Maria Hetenyi) wrote:
>
>I know two hungarian channels #hungary and #magyar but those are for
>high school or college students.
>>
>>
>
>Why don't you open your own channel? Here's some ideas:
>#budapest
>#pecs
>#sziasztok!
>
>Anything's possible. All you have to do is type   /join #pecs (or whatever)
>People will come in easily enough once they've done a /list
>

Hi everyone,

I'm from Canada, but would appreciate to know Hungarian channels. My father
and myself would very much like to communicate with magyar people. Could
someone also tell me if magyar is spoken in these channels or english?

Shirl