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Hello,

I keep hearing the date pushed further back...1997...1999...

Can someone tell me when Hungary is expected to gain full 
membership in the European Community?


Kosonom sapen...

Robert

 (Dan Pop) wrote:
>In > .
edu (Gyorgy Kovacs) writes:
>
>>In article >,
>>Constantin Donea > wrote:
>>>
>>>For God's sake, how many Hungarians live in Transylvania?? Soon there'll
>>>be like 25 million...
>>
>>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
>>May your words be the ones of a prophet! (A pro'fe'ta szo'ljon belo"led!)
>>Approximately 2.5 million recently.
>
>This must be _very_ recently, because in 1992, HDUR got about 7% of the
>votes, and 2.5 million is more than 10% of Romania's population.  Or,
>maybe, some Hungarians voted for PUNR...
>
>Dan
>--
>Dan Pop
>CERN, CN Division
>Email:  
>Mail:  CERN - PPE, Bat. 31 R-004, CH-1211 Geneve 23, Switzerland

You raise an interesting question, Dan.  Could it be that there were some 
irregularities, disenfranchising, etc. going on during the elections?  
Thanks for calling that possibility to our attention.

Charles Vamossy

 (Alen Docef) wrote:
>1994 CIA world factbook
>(http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/94fact/country/199.html)
>says:
>
>Romania
>Population: 23,181,415 (July 1994 est.) 
>Ethnic divisions: Romanian 89.1%, Hungarian 8.9%
>
>
>Calculator (/usr/openwin/bin/calctool)
>says:
>
>23181415 * 0.089 =~ 2.063 mil.
>
>Other sources are welcome.
>
>-- 
>
>Alen Docef
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>email:            Digital Signal Processing Laboratory
>Phone (W): (404) 894-4813     School of Electrical and Computer Engineering
>Phone (H): (404) 873-0285                   Georgia Institute of Technology
>FAX:       (404) 894-8363                       ECE Van Leer Building C-449
>WWW: http://www.ee.gatech.edu/users/alen        Atlanta, GA 30332-0250, USA
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks, Alen for the facts...  Nevertheless, the Hungarian minority's 
human rights concerns remain the same, wheather they number 2.5 or 2.0 
million.  Tha basic problems remain the same.


Charles Vamossy

Estimado amigo de Mexico:

Qreo que Ud. estovo equivocado. Nosotros estamos Polacos y no discutimos 
sobre situacion de Yugoslavia.  Envie su carta a ellos.

Adios,

Un Polaco de Toronto
B. Piotrowski


Organization: Toronto Free-Net
Distribution: 

Greg Laventman ) wrote:
:  (Constantin Donea) wrote:

: >In article >,  (Fredj Rouatbi) writ
es:
: >>
: >>
: >>On the other hand NATO has been there for a just cause. NATO goes out of th
e way to spare civilians lifes. Serbs hide their heavy weapons around civilians
 areas.
: >>
: >>
: >>There's No reason why NATO should not go on a war against the serb military
. All countries in the region and around the world should be supportive of NATO
.
: >>
: >>Fredj Rouatbi
: >>NORTEL

: >Oh give us a break! NATO simply was created for defense, not for attack.
: >Why should someone else fight for the Muslims in Bosnia??

: >Constantin Donea

: Gentlemen:   All of you have wonderful and good ideas on how to solve
: everything that is wrong in Sarajevo, and with all muslims. Okay.

: What the hell is this article and their responses doing in the
: Soc.culture. mexican?

: Please, gentlemen, use the thread and group that is the right one.

: Greg

In article >,  (Bogdan
Piotrowski) writes:

>t:	Re: UN SHOULD MAINTAIN ITS SUPPORT FOR NATO
>From:	 (Bogdan Piotrowski)
>Date:	Sun, 24 Sep 1995 18:07:51 GMT
>
>Estimado amigo de Mexico:
>
>Qreo que Ud. estovo equivocado. Nosotros estamos Polacos y no discutimos 
>sobre situacion de Yugoslavia.  Envie su carta a ellos.
>
>Adios,
>
>Un Polaco de Toronto
>B. Piotrowski
>
>


Southern Yugoslavian Dialect no doubt.

> ...<snip>......
  (deleted Mexican stuff in Spanish leading on to 
   the Serbs and Sarajevo [in English].....)
         
>
>: Gentlemen:   All of you have wonderful and good ideas on how to solve
>: everything that is wrong in Sarajevo, and with all muslims. Okay.
>
>: What the hell is this article and their responses doing in the
>: Soc.culture. mexican?
>
>: Please, gentlemen, use the thread and group that is the right one.
>
>: Greg


Surely you mean how the hell did all this end up in soc.culture.magyar?!?


George


      George Szaszvari
      DCPS Chess Club
      42 Alleyn Park     ******************************
      London SE21 7AA    e-mail: 
      United Kingdom     ******************************
      Planet Earth
      Milky Way Galaxy
 ************************************************************
 Interested in secondhand chess books? E-mail me for my list!
 ************************************************************

On 24 Sep 1995, CHARLES VAMOSSY wrote:

>  (Dan Pop) wrote:
> >In > 
e.edu (Gyorgy Kovacs) writes:
> >
> >>In article >,
> >>Constantin Donea > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>For God's sake, how many Hungarians live in Transylvania?? Soon there'll
> >>>be like 25 million...
> >>
> >>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
> >>May your words be the ones of a prophet! (A pro'fe'ta szo'ljon belo"led!)
> >>Approximately 2.5 million recently.
> >
> >This must be _very_ recently, because in 1992, HDUR got about 7% of the
> >votes, and 2.5 million is more than 10% of Romania's population.  Or,
> >maybe, some Hungarians voted for PUNR...
> >
> >Dan
> >--
> >Dan Pop
> >CERN, CN Division
> >Email:  
> >Mail:  CERN - PPE, Bat. 31 R-004, CH-1211 Geneve 23, Switzerland
> 
> You raise an interesting question, Dan.  Could it be that there were some 
> irregularities, disenfranchising, etc. going on during the elections?  
> Thanks for calling that possibility to our attention.
> 
> Charles Vamossy
> 
Very recently at Bucharest was released the result of the HDUR concerning 
the "1.75 million magyar population in Transylvania". You can not have 
more than 75% of the population with the right to go to vote, right ? So 
even 7% is a lot.

The "romi", gypsy population is estimated at 1 - 1.5 million, nobody can 
tell that with high precision, then the other communities at least 1.5 - 
2 million people. Armenians, Greeks, Turks, Bulgarians, Jews, 
Macedonians. So the calculations issuing the 2.5 million magyar 
population is only a wish, as presented above in both languages but not 
reality. Anyways, the numbers do not count but decisions taken based on 
civilized, mature and responsible discussions. Pushing, forcing, hiding 
the truth, overreacting in all international places will not help. 

If you want to "see" the real life over there, don't read the journals, 
go there. After that, you can speak about numbers, laws, regulations and 
especially who's right and wrong (if that can help). 

I am against any violence and pressure and I'm sure it can not help. No 
conciliation is possible without mutual respect and you should not forget 
that.


Radu Damian



> 
> 
>

Kulfoldi Magyar Cserkeszszovetseg
P.O.Box 68
Garfield, NJ  07026   USA

                                                                          
       1995.augusztus 23.

Kedves Partfogonk!
Felevszazada immar, hogy elhallgattak a masodik vilaghaboru fegyverei.
A magyar menekultek sivar barakkjaiban kesedelem nelkul megindult a 
fiatalok nevelese: 1945 nyaran Esensben megalakult az elso magyar
 cserkeszcsapat idegen foldon. Azota az elultetett mag terebelyes fava 
novekedett. Emberi szemmel nezve otven ev nagy ido. Ez ev augusztusaban 
kozponti cserkeszparkunkban szamvetest tartottunk.
                             Mit er a cserkesz, ha magyar?
Cserkeszetben felnevelt fiataljainkat (szamuk ma megkozeliti a 35 ezret)
gyakran faggattuk:  kik vagytok?  Valaszukbol mindig az derult ki, hogy 
szulofoldjukhoz ragaszkodnak, de szuleiktol atadott es a cserkeszetben 
elmenyszeruen megelt magyar kultura a magyarsaghoz koti oket. Szemely 
azonossagi igazolvanyukat a szivukben hordjak. Tudatosan es szivesen 
szolgaljak a magyarsag ugyet.

Altaluk jottek letre intezmenyeink: Cserkeszhazaink, cserkeszpark-
jaink, sajtonk es konyvkiadasunk, hetvegi es nyari iskolaink, magyar 
erettsegi tanfolyamaink, neptanccsoportjaink, regostaboraink, a magas 
kulturat atkozvetito Corvina taboraink...

A cserkeszetnek es a magyarsagnak egyarant neveltunk vezetoket.
Ennek koszonheto, hogy a nyugati magyarsag intezmenyeiben Buenos Airestol
Stockholmig es New Yorktol Sydney-ig mindenutt ott lathatok, ahol dolgozni
kell es aldozatos vezetokre van szukseg. Becslesek szerint Budapesten
kozel
200 kulfoldi magyar cserkesz dolgozik, szamosan kozuluk igen jelentos 
pozicioban.

A kommunizmus latszolagos bukasa utan feladatunk nem ert veget. Ma uj
Trianon veszelye fenyegeti ifjusagunkat, demokratikus maz leple 
alatt. A Karpat-medenceben 3.5 millio magyart terelgetnek celtudatosan, 
anyanyelvi korlatozasokkal, ijeszto uj oktatasi torvenyekkel, a nyelvetol 
megfosztottak tarsadalmaba. Minden eszkozzel gatoljak a Felvidek,
Karpatalja, 
Erdely, Delvidek ifjusaganak megmaradasat. Nagyon sok a tenni es 
aldozni valo.

Kerjuk ezert Partfogoinkat, hogy adomanyukkal tamogassak ez evi balunkat,
melynek jovedelme fokent a fenti celokat szolgalja.


A Kulfoldi Magyar Cserkeszszovetseg Nagy Tanacs neveben
Dr. Hoyos Janos      Nt.Dr. Bertalan Imre      Msgr.Dr. Henkey Karoly

In article >,  (Dorin Taranu
l) writes:
|>  (Gyorgy Kovacs) wrote:
|> 
|> >>For God's sake, how many Hungarians live in Transylvania?? 
|> >Approximately 2.5 million recently.
|> 
|> >Gyuri
|> 
|> It seems that the Chicago Democrats were responsible for the results
|> of the last census in Transilvania, which must've included the dead
|> amongst the living just like in a good old fashion Cook County
|> election. Unless of course, in the same Chicago Democratic tradition,
|> the Hungarians were "counted"... early and often!
|> 
|> Dorin Taranul
|> 

Although Gyuri's 2.5 million may be exaggerated, and the "official" 1.7 million
may be closer to the reality, the ones who tried to cheat (counting "secui" whe
re
possible, considering all the "csango"-s Romanian and deliberately omiting
Hungarians where possible /thing which has had great tradition since the
post-"revolutionary" elections/) were not the Hungarians. My point here is not
the numbers but the credibility...

Regards,

Matyas

.... back again.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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In article >,  (Constantin Donea) 
writes:
|> In article >,  (Alen Doce
f) writes:
|> >1994 CIA world factbook
|> >(http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/94fact/country/199.html)
|> >says:
|> >
|> >Romania
|> >Population: 23,181,415 (July 1994 est.) 
|> >Ethnic divisions: Romanian 89.1%, Hungarian 8.9%
|> >
|> >
|> >Calculator (/usr/openwin/bin/calctool)
|> >says:
|> >
|> >23181415 * 0.089 =~ 2.063 mil.
|> >
|> >Other sources are welcome.
|> >
|> 
|> 100 - 89.1 - 8.9 = 98
|> 23181415 * 0.02 = 463,628 other minorities in Romania.
|> That's ludicrous. There are more gypsies than this, not considering
|> Turks, Armenians, Germans, Ukrainians etc...
|> 
|> Constantin Donea
|> 

This is correct, but I wonder how many of the Gypsies (I guess, since they are
considered a national minority, they should deserve a capital G), Turks,
Armenians, Ukrainians, ... were counted as such (and not as Romanians). I didn'
t 
mention the Germans because unfortunately most of them left...

Sorry, but this discussion doesn'y have any point if I look at the title of the
posting. I got back recently and I couldn't catch up with the various threads,
so I tried to select by titles. Now, it seems that there were two
independent initiatives, one on the s.c.r. and an other one on the s.c.m.
concerning mr. Iliescu's visit to the US ... and this is what came out of them 
-
that's silly. I hope though that this won't the only result of them.

Regards,

Matyas
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