MI TESZ VALAKIT MAGYARRA? 
Elegendo-e az, ha valaki magyarul beszel? ...magyaros eteleket foz?
Magyarra lesz-e az, aki finom paprikas porkoltot eszik,  vagy keptelen
teliszalami nelkul elni?
Magyar-e az a szemely, aki Magyarorszagra jar elkolteni a dollarjait,
mert "ott jobb mint Libiaban"?
Magyar-e az, aki magyar nyelvu radioadast vezet, vagy vegezheti ezt
barki aki magyarul beszel, de nem magyarul gondolkodik es  erez?
Tekintheto-e MAGYARNAK   irodalmi mu, vers, novella, regeny... csak
azert mert magyar nyelven irtak meg?
"Magyarnak" tekintheto-e olyan  eredetiben idegen nyelven irodott
irodalmi alkotas, amelyet leforditottak magyarra?
Mit jelent az, hogy egy irodalmi munek  - legyen az barmilyen ertekes
is  - "szep, csak idegen a szelleme"?
Irtak-e valaha idegen nemzetisegu koltoink, iroink igazi magyar
szellemisegu muveket?
Idegenne valik-e  az idegen nyelvekre leforditott magyar szellemisegu
irodalmi alkotas, vagy az idegen szavak  tovabbra is  a magyar
szellemiseget sugarozzak?
Magyarra valik-e az az nem-magyar zongoramuvesz,  aki Liszt Ferenc
hires rapszodiait adja elo?
Olasz-e az a magyar  enekesno, aki Verdi ariakat enekel? 
Magyar szellemisegu lesz-e Wagner valamelyik magyarul enekelt operaja?
Magyar versek lesznek-e Faludy Gyorgy  franciabol leforditott
koltemenyei?
Angol vagyok-e en,  ha Angliaban szulettem, vagy csak angol
allampolgar? Vajon mit szolnanak ahhoz az angolok ha  en
magyar-angolnak vallanam  magamat?
Lehet-e kinai szarmazasu ember magyar, csak azert mert megtanulta jol
a nyelvunket?
Az aki az osregi magyar varosban Ungvarott szuletett 1941-ben, ma
magyarul beszel, erez es gondolkodik,  annak ellenere, hogy
Amerikaban el vajon hova tartozik? Ukrajnaba? Amerikaba?...
Helyes-e az a kifejezes, hogy roman-magyar, vagy ne mondjunk-e inkabb
"romaniai magyart",.. sot a leghelyesebb lenne az "erdelyi magyar"? 
Helyes-e az a kifejezes, hogy zsido-magyar vagy magyar-zsido? 
Nem helyesebb-e azt mondani, hogy "magyarajku zsido",, vagy "magyar
allampolgarsagu zsido". 
A judaizmus  torvenyei szerint,  valaki akkor zsido, ha zsido anyatol
szuletik.
Lehet-e zsido a judaizmusra attert  kereszteny?
Kik a szefarad zsidok es kik az askenazi zsidok?
Tovabbra is zsido marad-e az, aki megkeresztelkedett? Vajon mit ir
errol a TALMUD (A TAN)?
Mit ir a TALMUD a keresztenyekrol, egyaltalan az idegenekrol?

Gabor Elek > writes:

> Hozzateszem a Toth Judit nevu ur (tuti) sem jobboldali, kozonseges
> fasiszta. Es akkor mi van....

Ez serto a joerzesu fasisztakra nezve akiknek a zsidozas nem volt szokasuk.

Maradjunk csak a nacinal.  Vagyha olyan karakan magyar, akkor nyilas.

Anto'ny Gyuri

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
VALASZ SZUCS ISTVANNAK  ] es mindazoknak, akik ugy
gondoljak, hogy a magyar nep meg nem bunhodott eleget ..es akik azt
allitjak, hogy a mai Magyarorszagon emberjogi egyenloseg van! (marmint
a kisebbsegeknek es a magyar nepnek egyarant).  De annak ellenere,
hogy Magyarorszag 1955 ota az ENSZ tagja es minden allampolgaranak --
legalabbis papiron --
allitolag "biztositott"(!) az oly fennhanngon hirdetett
jogegyenloseg, a gyakorlatban ez NEM LETEZIK!
===
Az alabbi megdobbento hirt a NEMZET-bol tovabbitjuk az olvasoknak:

 KOMMANDOALAKULAT BRUTALITASA 6 MAGYAR DIAKFIU ES 3 DIAKLANY ELLEN!  
[Szokastol elteroen most egy M.o.-i kisebbseg, kilenc nemzeti erzesu
magyar kozepiskolas ellen elkovetett atrocitasok elleni tiltakozasra
kerjuk kedves olvasoinkat. Kerjuk, irjanak, faxozzanak tiltakozo
leveleket ha az olvasottak lattan ugy velik, vedelmukbe kell venniuk
vereinket!]

Kommandosok salgotarjani MIEP-es diakok ellen
"AKARTOK TOVABB TANULNI?"
(Magyar Forum, 1996. februar 22.)

Februar 7-en 20 ora 15 perckor a salgotarjani Rozsika kocsmaba
berontott 25 fegyveres kommandos es negy egyenruhas rendor. Minden
szerdan itt tartanak megbeszelest a MIEP Ifjusagi Tagozatanak tagjai
es szimpatizansai, ezen a napon is igy tortent. Az asztaloknal kilenc
kozepiskolas beszelgetett, vallotta egy szemtanu. A szoban forgo
kocsma berloje, DUDAS LASZLONE a MIEP Nograd
megyei szervezetenek elnoke. A kocsmaban minden szerdan razzia van.

Februar 7-en a nagy robajjal erkezo kommandosok (a Cserhat-csoport)
falhoz parancsoltak a "kopaszokat", koztuk a korzet postasat is, aki
balszerencsejere elozo nap nyiratkozott. Felszolitottak a falhoz
allitott kilenc kozepiskolas gyereket, koztuk harom diaklanyt, hogy
uritsek ki a zsebeiket es a taskaikat. A kommandosok fegyvert kerestek
naluk, de nem talaltak. Egy elkobzott bezbol-utovel vegigvertek az
egyik diakon, a masiknak a kezet utottek. A tettlegesseg elott az
egyenruhas rendorok kivonultak a kocsmabol. Amikor Dudas Laszlone, a
kocsma berloje arra kerte a kommandosokat, hogy ne bantsak a
gyerekeket, ez volt a valasz: "A nagypofaju not is bevisszuk".

A korulbelul 30 perces akcio utan kocsiba zsufoltak a harom diaklanyt
es a hat fiut, majd eloallitottak oket a salgotarjani Varosi
Rendorkapitanysagon. A kocsiban a rendorok azzal fenyegetoztek, hogy a
kapitanysagon megverik oket, ha nem valljak be, milyen szervezetnek a
tagjai.

A gyerekek a MIEP tajekoztatojan a sajto nyilvanossaga elott szamoltak
be a tortentekrol. A kihallgatasok elott a fogdabol nem engedtek ki
oket a mellekhelyisegbe. Nem telefonalhattak a szuleiknek. Az egyik
gimnazista -- feltunoen szep lany -- a fogdaban arra kerte a
rendoroket, eloszor ot hallgassak ki, hogy meg elerje az utolso
autobuszt. Csak az utolso busz indulasa utan kerult sorra.

Ejjel fel kettoig tartott a kihallgatas. A salgotarjani Varosi Rendor-
kapitanysag ugyeletes tisztje BOKA GYULA szazados volt. A kihallgato
rendorok azzal kezdtek a faggatozast, hogy akarnak-e a gyerekek tovabb
tanulni. Tehat zsaroltak, az ugyhoz nem tartozo dolgokrol faggatoztak.
Ekozben Dudas Laszlone folyamatosan erdeklodott telefonon, mi van a
diakokkal, mert haza kell menniok. Fogdai letartoztatasukat a rendorok
telefonon letagadtak, majd egy kazari illetosegu rendor kozbenjarasara
ejszaka fel ketto utan a gyerekeket egyenkent szabadon engedtek.
Celzatosan feltett kerdeseik utan alairattak veluk a jegyzokonyvet.

Dudas Laszlone keso ejszaka ferjevel es fiaval gepkocsiba ult, hogy a
rendorsegre menjen. Utkozben tankolniuk kellett. A benzintolto allomas
elott elejuk vagodott es utanuk zart egy-egy rendorsegi kocsi. A
rendorok azt firtattak, miert jarnak ejszaka tankolni.

Ez tortent Salgotarjanban, az 1996. februar 7-erol 8-ara virrado
ejszakan. Kommandosakciot hajtottak vegre gyerekek, a MIEP Ifjusagi
Tagozata ellen. Az indok az volt, hogy "egy cigany bejelentette, meg
akarjak ot tamadni". Masnap a sajtojelentesekben ez az indok mar
"allampolgari bejelentesse" szelidult. A bejelentes tartalmarol a
rendorok nem voltak hajlandok bovebben nyilatkozni. A NOGRADI KRONIKA
februar 9-en megirta a tortenetet, korrekten szamolt be az esetrol.

Februar 10-i cimoldalan -- feltehetoen rendorsegi nyomasra -- mar
homlokegyenest mast irt. Igyekezett tisztara mosni a brutalis
kommandosakciot. Ezt a tudositast vettek at az orszagos napilapok.
Igy terjedt hire, hogy ciganyokat vertek a magyarok. Az ujsagok a
MIEP-rol es a diakokrol mar szot sem ejtettek. Gy. B.

A "NEMZET" kommentarja:
[Amikor Demszky  annak idejen szamizdat terjesztese miatt egy pofont
kapott a rendorsegtol , feje tetejere allt a vilag a
tiltakozohullamtol - majd polgarmestert csinaltak belole. Amikor a mi
gyerekeinket verik es tovabbtanulasukra hivatkozva terrorizaljak a
kommandosok, tiltakozhatunk:

Levelben:
Rendorkapitanysag
Salgotarjan
Hungary 3100

Magyar Forum Szerkesztosege
Budapest, Pf. 1591
Hungary 1464

Faxon/Telefonon
Magyar Forum Szerkesztosege
Tel/fax: 36-1-215-8795

E-mailben:

[az E-maileket a szerkesztoseg tovabbitja]
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
24. ORA - http://www.infobahnos.com/~jtoth

Meglepetessel lattam "Tothek" 24. Oraja fejleceben a Kossuth cimert.  Ez 
erdekes, mert a koronas cimer kerulese pont annak a kornak az elutasitasakent 
ertelmezheto melybol a szelsojobb a filozofiajat meriti (t.i. a ket vilag-
haboru kozotti evek).

Elszigetelt jelenseg ez, vagy letezik egy olyan szelesebb trend, hogy a magyar 
szelsojobboldal a Kossuth cimerrel femjelzi onmagat ? 

Anto'ny Gyuri

In article >,
Judith Toth > wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
> VALASZ SZUCS ISTVANNAK  ] es mindazoknak, akik ugy
> gondoljak, hogy a magyar nep meg nem bunhodott eleget 

Ugye a konjunkcio elso fele ismet csak felrevezetesnek van szanva, mert
ilyet senki nem irt.

...es akik azt
> allitjak, hogy a mai Magyarorszagon emberjogi egyenloseg van! (marmint
> a kisebbsegeknek es a magyar nepnek egyarant).  De annak ellenere,
> hogy Magyarorszag 1955 ota az ENSZ tagja es minden allampolgaranak --
> legalabbis papiron --
> allitolag "biztositott"(!) az oly fennhanngon hirdetett
> jogegyenloseg, a gyakorlatban ez NEM LETEZIK!
> ===
> Az alabbi megdobbento hirt a NEMZET-bol tovabbitjuk az olvasoknak:
> 
>  KOMMANDOALAKULAT BRUTALITASA 6 MAGYAR DIAKFIU ES 3 DIAKLANY ELLEN!  
> [Szokastol elteroen most egy M.o.-i kisebbseg, kilenc nemzeti erzesu
> magyar kozepiskolas ellen elkovetett atrocitasok elleni tiltakozasra
> kerjuk kedves olvasoinkat. Kerjuk, irjanak, faxozzanak tiltakozo
> leveleket ha az olvasottak lattan ugy velik, vedelmukbe kell venniuk
> vereinket!]

[...] 

Ha igaz az amit on ir igazsag es a teljes igazsag 
(eddigi irasai alapjan engedtessek meg hogy mas- szamomra szavahihetobb 
forrasbol is ellenorizzem) - akkor elitelem az akciot, es szivesen alairok
barmilyen nyilatkozatot, interpellaciot ami az esetre vonatkozik.
Teszem ezt annak ellenere(!) hogy az itt csak kopaszoknak emlitett, de 
vilagszerte skinhead neven ismert politikai csoportulas tagjai tobb baratomat
fizikailag megfenyegettek, es egy ismerosomet tettleg is bantalmaztak. 
Ennek ellenere elitelem ha veluk szemben nem tartjak be az alapveto jogelveket
meg akkor is ha ok ezeket szandekosan ketlabbal rugjak fel.

Meg ket megjegyzest... Nem ertem ez miert bizonyitja hogy a Magyarok emberi
jogai, jogegyenlosege lenne veszelyeztetve...   Volt egy rendorsegi tulkapas
(amely elitelend)o amelynek celpontja egy szelsojobboldali part tagjai voltak.
Logikusan az on altal emlitett cikkbol is az derul ki hogy azert   letpek fel
a rendorok mert a gyerekek miep-esek vagy borfejuek voltak. Semmi nyomat nem
latom annak hogy itt altalanos Magyarok elleni fellepesrol lett volna szo.

A masik megjegyzesem Pellionisz Andrashoz iranyul - aki ugyancsak ebben a tema-
ban jelentetett meg egy nyilt levelet amelyben az Amnesty International 
nemzetkozi (!) polgarjogi (!) szervezethez fordul. Talan harom evvel ezelott 
nevezte hazaarulonak azokat akik nemzetkozi forumoknal tiltakoztak a Magyar
Radioban elkovetett politikai tisztogatas ellen - mert belso ugyunket a vilag
elott teregetik ,es mert Magyarorszag rossz hiret keltik. Kerdem tole - most
hogy o fordult nemzetkozi szervezethez nagy nemzetkozi nyilvanossag elott- 
megvaltozott a velemenye - vagy o is hazaarulova lett sajat megitelese 
szerint?

Istvan

In article >,
Judith Toth > wrote:
>MI TESZ VALAKIT MAGYARRA?

Hmmmm...ez megint egy olyan erdekes tema, mint ki gondolkodik "nemzetidegenul"
vagy "nemzetbaratul".

>Elegendo-e az, ha valaki magyarul beszel? ...magyaros eteleket foz?
>Magyarra lesz-e az, aki finom paprikas porkoltot eszik,  vagy keptelen
>teliszalami nelkul elni?

Oszinten szolva, kurvara utalom a magyaros eteleket. Bar a kellemes borok, az
igen, foleg egy jo kis szalonna sutessel nyaron!

>Helyes-e az a kifejezes, hogy zsido-magyar vagy magyar-zsido?

Helyes-e az a kifejezes, hogy elmebeteg-magyar vagy magyar-elmebeteg?

>Nem helyesebb-e azt mondani, hogy "magyarajku zsido",, vagy "magyar
>allampolgarsagu zsido".

Nem helyesebb-e azt mondani, hogy "magyarajku elmebeteg",, vagy "magyar
allampolgarsagu elmebeteg".

>3.  Hazank es nepunk erddekeinek oszinte kepviselete.

Mi az en erdekkem?

>4.  Az IGAZI magyar tortenelem ismeerete.

Jo.

>P.S. Varjuk

OK. Este tizkor a Lanchid-nal.

Gabor
aka. Bird Jaguar, Lord of the Mayas at Yaxchilan

> MAGYAR  AZ....
> < akinek fajnak Trianon igazsagtalansagai.
> < akinek magyar szora, vagy zenere megdobban a szive
> < akinek  1945. aprilis 4. gyasznapot jelent.
> < akinek 1956. oktober 23. a magyar szabadsag szent unnepe
....
Ki szerint?

Kaos

In article >,
    (Judith Toth) wrote:
>MI TESZ VALAKIT MAGYARRA? 
[kivagva]

Nekem mar csak egy kerdesem van: Tekintheto-e "Magyarnak" Judith Toth?



--------------------------------------
Peter Szaszvari
http://iap11.ethz.ch/users/szp/szp.htm
--------------------------------------

Varga Piroska ) wrote:
: In article >, "Mr R.C. Ponniah"
: > wrote:

: > chan rat ter in Thai
: I love you in Hungarian is only one word: szeretlek

Joe Pannonnak:

  Egyszeruen fogtam magam es kicsereltem egy szovegszerkesztovel, meg
nemileg kezzel a "zsido"-t MAGYAR-ra a szovegedben. Erdekes lett az
eredmeny:

------------ ooooooooooo --------------

Szerintem ez nem altalanos.  Kulonosen nem a zsido MAGYARok (vagy MAGYAR
zsidok vagy hogyan helyes ez?) eseteben, akik tobbsege szamara a MAGYARsag
a masodlagos, hacsak nem emlekeztetik oket erre tul sokat. :-(
Viszont szerintem is van a MAGYARsagon belul egy agressziv kisebbbseg
akik valosaggal kisajatitottak maguknak a szoszoloi szerepet a MAGYARok
neveben.  Fuggetlenul attol, hogy vallasosak-e vagy nem.  Azt hiszem az
a problema, hogy erre a kisebbsegre nincs egy jo elkulonito nev, mint
pl. a "Cosa Nostra" az olaszokon belul.  Akkor azokat lehetne kritizalni
anelkul, hogy az egesz MAGYARsag azt magara venne.  Tudtommal a legtobb
olasz sem veszi magara azt, ha a Cosa Nostrat (vagy a Maffiat) szidja
valaki, ha bar mindenki tudja, hogy ezen szervezetek tagsaga szin olasz.
(Persze ma a Maffia szo jelentese elegge generikus lett, s ezert
hasznalom inkabb a Cosa Nostrat.)  Szinte biztos vagyok, hogy a legtobb
MAGYARt ert kritika nem a MAGYARsag egeszet celozta meg, hanem annak egy
eroszakos kisebbseget.  Ezt nem is tudom maskepp elkepzelni, hiszen
mindnyajan sokkal tobb tisztesseges MAGYARt ismerunk, mint gazembert.
Persze sokkal jobb lenne, ha nem a zsidok kritizalnak azt az
agressziv MAGYAR kisebbseget, hanem maga a MAGYAR tobbseg.  Ha meg nem
teszik, akkor ne csodalkozzanak azon, ha azt masok teszik meg helyettuk.
Az aztan egyaltalan nem segiti az ugyuket, ha a nem-szemelyeskedo
kritizalot ocsmany szemelyeskedessel, kigyot-bekat kialtva a fejere
akarjak elhallgattatni.

------------ ooooooooooo --------------

Van azert itt ket dolog:

1. Amint a zsidok kiirtottak 7 millio nemzsidot, azoknak nemzsidosaga
miatt, maris kvittek vagyunk, attol kezdve minden osszehasonlithato
lesz. De barmennyire is igazsagosnak is tartanam ezt a fejlemenyt,
meg a gondolatatol is borzadok, es nem hiszem hogy volna olyan epeszu
zsido, vagy nemzsido, akinek ez a torlesztes celja, vagy vagya lenne.
De annyit mindenesetre megkovetelhet minden zsido a legyilkolt
7 millio neveben, hogy senki se gyalazza emlekuket, senki se hasonlitsa
nepenek sanyaru sorsat a zsidok szenvedeseihez. Soha meg semmilyen nepet
nem uldoztek ilyen sokaig, soha semmilyen nepet nem irtottak meg igy.
Es ha lehetne valami haszna a 7 millio halalanak, akkor az lehetne,
hogy soha semmilyen nepnek ne is kelljen ilyen borzalom toredeket sem
elszenvednie.

2. "Egy agressziv kis csoport". Amint valaki a zsidokat vedi,
mindjart agresszivnek belyegzik. Egy zsido ugyanis kusshadjon, es
oruljon ha nem vertek meg agyon. Hat ez ma mar nem all meg, a
zsidok nem fognak bekesen a vagohidra menni, hiaba koveteli
Toth Judit a gazkamrak ujra uzembehelyezeset.

Ket szemlyes megjegyzes J. P.-nek:

1. A fentebbi "gyalazas" ezalkalommal nem neked szolt.
2. A szemelyeskedesrol: termeszetesen most sem ertek egyet a
szemelyeskedessel, meg Toth Judittal szemben sem, de nagyon meglepodtem,
hogy TE emelsz kifogast! Egyebirant ha Toth Juditot nevezed 
"nem-szemelyeskedo kritizalo"-nak akkor legyszives olvasd mar el
leveleit megegyszer ! Es elarulom, nekem is lenne kedvem nehany
szemelyeskedo jelzore a tudos holggyel kapcsolatban, mert ilyen
hajmereszto hazudozot es nyilt fajuldozot nem lattam meg itt ezeken
a lapokon, sot azt hiszem Goebbels ota kevesen vetettek papirra ilyet.

//Laszlo

In article >,  
says...

>| 1. Amint a zsidok kiirtottak 7 millio nemzsidot, azoknak nemzsidosaga
>| miatt, maris kvittek vagyunk, attol kezdve minden osszehasonlithato
>| lesz. De barmennyire is igazsagosnak is tartanam ezt a fejlemenyt,
>| meg a gondolatatol is borzadok, es nem hiszem hogy volna olyan epeszu
>| zsido, vagy nemzsido, akinek ez a torlesztes celja, vagy
>| vagya lenne.
>
>Igazsagosnak tartanad ezt a fejlemenyt? (ertem hogy nem
>kivanod)Mennyiben lenne igazsag ket szornyu igazsagtalansag egyuttese.
>

Nem, valoban nem jo a szovalasztas, "igazsagos". De egyszeruen nem
talatam jobbat a "matematikai egyenertek" helyett. Bar ha most 7 millio
naci halalarol lenne szo, akkor az "igazsagos" szo allna a legkozelebb
az en megitelesem szerint. De termeszetesen en is abban a remenyben
elek, hogy nincs 7 millio ilyen a vilagon.

>
>
>| De annyit mindenesetre megkovetelhet minden zsido a legyilkolt
>| 7 millio neveben, hogy senki se gyalazza emlekuket, senki se 
hasonlitsa
>| nepenek sanyaru sorsat a zsidok szenvedeseihez. Soha meg semmilyen 
nepet
>| nem uldoztek ilyen sokaig, soha semmilyen nepet nem irtottak meg igy.
>| Es ha lehetne valami haszna a 7 millio halalanak, akkor az lehetne,
>| hogy soha semmilyen nepnek ne is kelljen ilyen borzalom toredeket sem
>| elszenvednie.
>
>Nem hiszem hogy barki szenvedese kissebb lenne azert mert
>msa is szenvedett. Sohasem ertettem azt hogy mire jok azok
>a versenyek amelyek arrol szolnak hogy ki szenvedett tobbet.

Nem kisebb, KEVESEBB. Csak mennyisegrol, nem minosegrol van szo.
A szenvedo egyen szamara sajat szenvedese a legnagyobb, ez nyilvanvalo.

Egyebekben egyetertek, tobbsegeben korabbi leveleiddel is.

//Laszlo

< The entire stuff deleted >

Enne'l nagyobb tome'ny baromsa'got leguto'bb Mihai O. Dima tolla'bo'l 
(keyboardja'bo'l) olvashattunk.
Senkinek nincs sem joga sem szake'rtelme hogy valaki magyarsa'ga't 
megke'rdo~jelezze. Mindenkinek maga'nak kell eldo:ntenie hogy magyarnak e'rzi-e
maga't avagy nem.
Hogy azta'n az illeto~ magyarhoz me'lto'an besze'l, ir vagy viselkedik, vagy 
nem, az megint ma's ke'rdes.
Gyuri

Archive-name: hungarian/faq
Soc-culture-magyar-archive-name: faq
Last-modified: 1996/02/14
Version: 1.41
Posting-Frequency: every fifteen days

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     Hungarian electronic resources FAQ

               TABLE OF CONTENTS

1.      News and discussion groups in English
1.1  News from the Open Media Research Institute
1.2  News from Central Europe Today
1.3  The Hungary Report
1.4  Hungary Online List (HOL)
1.5  MOZAIK
1.6  On USENET
1.7  'Hungary', the LISTSERV list 
1.8  , the Hungarian-American list

2.      News and discussion groups in Hungarian
2.1  HIX (many groups and services)
2.2  BLA Sajtoszemle [press review]
2.3  "Nemzet" Magyar Internet Vilaglap [Hungarian Internet World Bulletin]
2.4  Other discussion groups

3.      Interactive services
3.1  What's available on the World Wide Web
3.2  Gopher and other interactive services
3.3  ARENA

4.      The Net in Hungary
4.1  BITNET/HUEARN
4.2  HUNGARNET
4.3  FidoNet
4.4  Finding out somebody's email address

5.      Odds and ends
5.1  Traveling with a computer in Hungary
5.2  Conventions for coding Hungarian accents
5.3  Information sources about the rest of Central and Eastern Europe

6.      Contributors to this FAQ

7.      How to read this FAQ - what's in there < ~!@#$%^&* >

- - - ----------------------------------------------------------------------

 I know this is very long, perhaps too long for human consumption ;-).
One of the tasks for further editing is to make it more concise,
perhaps drop some parts altogether (I'd like to hear any suggestions).
You can search for the section titles listed above and skip what you
don't want, and many Unix newsreaders would jump ahead to the next one
with Ctrl-G (the format now follows the digest specification)!

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 1.  NEWS AND DISCUSSION GROUPS IN ENGLISH

 Note: commercial networks -- such as CompuServe or AOL -- may have
their own in-house forums relating to Eastern and Central Europe. Be
aware that those are only open to the subscribers of the particular
service, unlike the discussion groups accessible by anyone via the
Internet and Usenet! This file -- the hungarian-faq -- is mostly
concerned with resources freely available netwide.
 See also the sections under 2. below which list services that carry
occasional English material, some regularly, besides their primarily
Hungarian language content.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 1.1  News from the Open Media Research Institute

 The Open Media Research Institute Daily Digest is available via
electronic mail, at no charge. The Digest covers all of the former
Soviet Union, East-Central and Southeastern Europe and is delivered in
two parts, each roughly 15 kByte in size, Monday through Friday (except
Czech holidays).

 You can subscribe by sending <mailto:>.
In the body of the message, type
 "SUBSCRIBE OMRI-L Yourfirstname Yourlastname" (leave out the quotation
marks and be sure to substitute your own name where shown).

 You can get reposts of just the items related to Hungary by
subscribing to Mozaik. See section 1.5.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 1.2  News from Central Europe Today

 Central Europe Today On-Line is a free daily news service covering the
important events and business news in the region. To subscribe, send
the word SUBSCRIBE <mailto:>. For more
detailed information, send a blank email message
<mailto:>.

Again, these exceed Hungary in scope, but you can get excerpts
pertaining to Hungary in Mozaik (see 1.4).

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 1.3  The Hungary Report

 The Hungary Report is a free weekly English-language online update of
news and analysis direct from Budapest each Sunday. The Report consists
of briefs, one feature story and an expert political opinion column.
The briefs cover the most important and interesting developments in
Hungary each week, while the feature stories address variously
politics, business, economics, arts and leisure. The weekly political
column, Parliament Watch, is written by Tibor Vidos, director of the
Budapest office of GJW, a British political lobbying and consulting
firm. To subscribe, send
<mailto:> containing (in the body
of the message, not in the headers) the single word "subscribe" (no
quotes).  Or send the word "info" to the same address for further
information.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 1.4  Hungary Online List (HOL)

 This discussion list is a "kind of Internet supplement" to the column
of the same title in Budapest Business Journal; to subscribe, send the
word "subscribe" <mailto:> (you'll get help
from its Majordomo server, if needed).

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 1.5  MOZAIK

 This is actually one of the services of HIX, meaning there's a slight
bit of Hungarian mixed in (the posts themselves are mostly in English,
but the server speaks Hunglish ;-)). MOZAIK brings you original content
(e.g. the schedule of DUNA TV, exchange rates), and digested reposts
of those news items (originating from OMRI, CET and other sources)
that bear directly on Hungary. You can subscribe by
sending a blank email message to <mailto:> and
unsubscribe by sending one to <mailto:>. See
section 3 about searching the HIX archives.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 1.6  On USENET

 The Hungarian newsgroup in the worldwide hierarchy is
<news:soc.culture.magyar>. It's mostly in English, sometimes
bilingual, and occasionally Hungarian only. The group is archived by
HIX (see its section for 'SCM') and is also readable under
<http://hix.mit.edu/usenet/>;. A similar archive is to be found at
<http://mineral.umd.edu/usenet/>; (see 1.8 below). For www/e-mail
gateways see <http://www.siliconvalley.com/nemzetiforum.html>; or the
archives mentioned above.

 Since May 1995 Hungary has its own netnews hierachy, with the following
groups created so far (hun.lists.* are email gateways):
        <news:hun.test>
        <news:hun.news>
        <news:hun.piac>
        <news:hun.comp>
        <news:hun.general>
        <news:hun.lists.hix.forum>
        <news:hun.lists.hix.hunet>
        <news:hun.lists.hix.moka>
        <news:hun.lists.hix.otthonka>
        <news:hun.lists.hix.szalon>
        <news:hun.lists.hix.tipp>
        <news:hun.lists.hix.vita>
        <news:hun.lists.hix.otthon>
        <news:hun.lists.hix.guru>
        <news:hun.lists.hix.kornyesz>
        <news:hun.lists.katalist>

 If you can connect to a remote news server (typically by setting the
NNTPSERVER variable under Unix), then you can get hun.* directly from
news.sztaki.hu or news.iif.hu (the former has been more stable
lately). Fetching articles is much faster from a local source - ask
you system administrator if they can get a feed! In the USA the first
provider offering the hierarchy seems to be AltNet,
<mailto:> to find out about that.  There is a gopher
interface to news: <gopher://mars.iif.hu:70/11/News> (the full URL to
go straight to the hun.* groups is:
<gopher://mars.iif.hu:70/1exec%3A-g%20hun%3A/bin/gonnrp>). 
For accessing groups in the international hierarchy from abroad via
gopher the gateway in the Netherlands may be better:
<gopher://g4nn.cca.vu.nl:4320/1g4nn%20group/soc.culture.magyar>.  The
hun.* groups are also archived by HIX (see its section for 'HUNGROUPS')
and they are also readable under <http://hix.mit.edu/usenet/>; as well
as <http://mineral.umd.edu/usenet/>;.
 HIX provides a universal posting gateway to the soc.culture.magyar and
hun.* newsgroups. Use the addresses:
<mailto:>, for example
<mailto:>. A similar gatewaying service
is also available for soc.culture.magyar via
<mailto:> (see 1.8 below), as well as via
<mailto:> (see also 2.3).

 There are Hungarian local newsgroups available through
<telnet://ludens.elte.hu>, login with username GUEST (no password), and
enter NEWS to start the newsreader (you can use the VMS online help to
learn about it). The guest account is set up for accessing
<news:elte.diaklap> (students' journal at Eotvos U.), but other
newsgroups are available as well. (But please be considerate to the
strained network resources of Hungarian sites - from abroad for
non-local news use other providers.) For ELTE-specific questions
contact <mailto:>. This server is also accessible
via remote NNTP like the two mentioned above, but is often much slower
than those.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 1.7 'Hungary', the LISTSERV list 

  is a discussion group providing rapid communication
among those with interests in Hungarian issues. Subscribe by 
<mailto:> using no subject and a message
consisting only of SUBSCRIBE HUNGARY Yourfirstname Lastname. Once you
have subscribed, any messages which you want to send to the group
should be sent to the group address, <mailto:>.
(This pattern of two addresses is standard: you turn your mail off and
on at the "listserv" address, and you send mail to the listname
address. For example, to  unsubscribe, send the server the message
SIGNOFF HUNGARY. You can temporarily turn off you mail by sending
listserv the message SET HUNGARY NOMAIL. SET HUNGARY MAIL turns mail
back on.) By default the listserv sends out messages as they arrive,
maybe several ones on busier days. If you prefer daily digest format,
you can issue the command SET HUNGARY DIGESTS (again by sending it to
the LISTSERV address); alternatively you can subscribe to HUNGARY via
HIX as mentioned in 2.1, and receive the same format as the other lists
by HIX. LISTSERV has many useful features, most notably database search
on the list archives - to learn more about it, send commands like SEND
HELP, SEND HELP DATABASE.

 Note that the form of addressing LISTSERV lists such as Hungary may
depend a great deal on your local network configuration and mailer
software. For BITNET mailers you need GWUVM only; the local gatewaying
to BITNET may be BITNET% for VAXMail installations and
 at other places. Ask your local network
administrator first if you're experiencing problems.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 1.8  , the Hungarian-American list

 The Hungarian-American List is an unmoderated discussion forum to
promote communications between people with interest in modern Hungarian
culture and Hungarian cultural heritage. The list brings you, among
other things, news items originating from OMRI, CET, the Hungarian
media and several other sources, that might be of interest for
Hungarians and Americans. The WWW Home Page of the Hungarian-American
list is <http://mineral.umd.edu/hungary/>;. Subscribe by
<mailto:>, using no subject and a message
consisting only of SUBSCRIBE HUNGARY. The Hungarian Usenet group -
soc.culture.magyar is available for Hungarian-American List subscribers
via email. You can subscribe to this news-to-mail-to-news service by
<mailto:>, using no Subject, in the body of the
letter write SUBSCRIBE SOC-CULTURE-MAGYAR. The WWW address of the
interactive soc.culture.magyar archive is
<http://mineral.umd.edu/soc.culture.magyar/>;.

 (Notice that this Maryland-based list is distinct from the older
LISTSERV list mentioned in 1.7 that has a broader focus - mentioning
'the HUNGARY list' ususally refers to that latter one! Note also that
the Majordomo server syntax is different from LISTSERV for many of
their commands - see the help document sent by the server.)

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 2.  NEWS AND DISCUSSION GROUPS IN HUNGARIAN

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 2.1  HIX

 HIX, or Hollosi Information eXchange, is a non-profit formation run
and supported by several individuals and organizations. HIX was started
in 1989/90 and now it reaches more than 10,000 readers in about 45 countries
around the World.

Its services, mostly in Hungarian, are abundant and change frequently, so
it is best to obtain an up-to-date help file by sending an email message to
<mailto:> (a recent copy of that also seems to be in
<http://hix.mit.edu/hix/hixcore/senddoc/MAIN/HELP.ALL>; - but please
notice that there are superseded copies scattered in other parts in
the archive on the one hand, and many of the other files in this same
directory are outdated on the other hand; most notably, DO NOT TOUCH
that ancient version of hungarian-faq found there!). Here's a list of
what it currently offers in email digest format:

 HIR      -- 'Hirmondo', current newspaper survey edited in Budapest
 NARANCS  -- The Internet edition of the 'Magyar Narancs' weekly
 TIPP     -- politics-free questions, tips etc.
 SZALON   -- moderated political discussion forum
 FORUM    -- unmoderated political discussion forum
 GURU     -- computer-related questions
 RANDI    -- moderated personals; anonymous submissions possible
 VITA     -- moderated non-political discussion forum
 OTTHON   -- issues around the home
 MOKA     -- jokes, humor (Hungarian and other)
 MOZAIK   -- semi-regular bits of news and other info, mostly in
	     English, crossposts from the OMRI list, VoA gopher, CET
	     and other sources
 HUNGARY  -- daily digest of the Hungary LISTSERV list (see 1.7)
 SCM      -- gatewayed email digest of the Usenet newsgroup
             soc.culture.magyar 

 The following is not available for email subscription from
Hungary, but are accessible via the SENDDOC interface (or the
'finger ' service for the latest issues):
 HUNGROUPS - gatewayed email digest of the hun.* regional newsgroups

 Note that KEP (transcripts from the videotext news from Hungarian
Television's Kepujsag) has been suspended indefinitely - despite what
HIX' own HELP says.

 To subscribe (unsubscribe) to a particular email-journal, send email
to  ) where NAME is one of the
above.

 The postings for the HIX discussion lists are sent out daily in
digested form. You can send your own submission to ,
whatever NAME is (provided it's actually a discussion list).

 The volume for some of these lists is becoming rather high, e.g. TIPP
often digests dozens of messages in hundreds of lines daily!  You ought
to try targeting your audience properly in order to find those who'd
help with your questions; also keep in mind that readers often answer
to the list rather than the individual even when personal reply is
requested, so if you ask something it's a good idea to subscribe also
(even though technically it's not required) instead of just addressing
a list as a non-subscriber. A reminder to those who reply to a post:
always remember that list messages get sent to several thousand readers,
so consider personal email if the subject is not of general interest!
If you answer through a list it's courteous to send a personal copy
(Cc: with most mailers) as well - this may reach the addressee
considerably earlier than the post distributed through the list.
 Notice the (undocumented) feature of the HIX mail-server: it only
accepts submissions if its address is found in the 'To:' header field!
It would quietly ignore incoming email Cc-d to it, so do not put the
 in the 'Cc:' (you can do so with other addressees).

 The HIX server can also send out archived files, see the SENDDOC
function in its description. In case you have any problems or questions
on the HIX services, please read through the automatic help response
first. If you need human intervention you can reach
<mailto:> - but keep in mind that list managers have
to do plenty other than answering things already laid out in the Fine
Manual.

 You can also view the output of HIX interactively. See section 3.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 2.2  BLA Sajtoszemle

 Daily selection of articles from leading Hungarian newspapers by
the Lajos Batthyany Foundation, published by the Hungary.Network.
 
 To subscribe (unsubscribe), send email to <mailto:>
(<mailto:>). Also available in 123 accent notations
from the <mailto:> address.

 It is also readable on the WWW under <http://www.hungary.com/bla/sajto/>;.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 2.3  Nemzet Magyar Internet Vilaglap [Hungarian Internet World Bulleti
n]

 [This section is as provided by <mailto:>]

(1) (E-mail news bulletins)
        "Nemzet" Magyar Internet Vilaglap
        E-mail news digest, Mon-Fri, 25-55k. Comprises East-European
        regional news (by OMRI, in English), excerpts from Hungarian
        press (in Hungarian), and reports on newsworthy items (press,
        events, etc., mostly in Hungarian and occasionally in English)

        Subscription/Unsubscription:
        
        
        www:  http://www.siliconvalley.com/nemzet.html

        Publisher and Editor in Chief: 

(2) (usenet e-mail digest)
        "Nemzetiforum"
        Digest of "Soc.Culture.Magyar" by means of e-mail bulletin, filtering
        out all lists and postings beyond size 8k.

        Subscription/Unsubscription:
        
        
        www: http://www.siliconvalley.com/nemzetiforum.html

        Publisher and Editor in Chief: 

(3) (www/e-mail gateway)
        E-mail message is acknowledged and posted to "Soc.Culture.Magyar",
        with your address and your subject-definition.
        Simply send contributions to  

        Gateway maintained under direction of:


(5) Hungarian Papers on WWW (liberal to conservative)

        (a)     168 ORA
                http://www.atm.com.pl/COM/xlori/168/ora.html

        (b)     KELET-MAGYARORSZAG
                http://www.bgytf.hu/public/keletm/

        (c)     UJVIDEKI NAPLO
                http://www.mediarange.com/media/huncor/organ/naplo/naplo.htm

        (d)     DEMOKRATA
                http://www.siliconvalley.com/demokrata/

        (e)     NEMZET
                http://www.siliconvalley.com/nemzet.html

        (f)     MAGYAR ELET

http://www.mediarange.com/media/huncor/organ/magyarel/hunlife.htm

        (g)     24. ORA
                http://www.infobahnos.com/~jtoth/


- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 2.4  Other discussion groups in Hungarian

 A number of email lists are available from servers located in Hungary,
for directory see <gopher://HUEARN.sztaki.hu>. There are many college
publications available online as well, check out the links from the HU
homepage (see below).

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 3. INTERACTIVE SERVICES

 If you are using Hungarian interactive services from abroad (or vice
versa): please note that interactive Internet connections like gopher
may be very slow, even timing out during peak hours - try times of
lower network load when the response time is usually reasonable.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 3.1  What's available on the World Wide Web

 This document you are reading now is hosted at
<http://hix.mit.edu/hungarian-faq/hungarian-faq>;, and its directory
has a few other documents and several links to other sites of
interest.

 The Hungarian Home Page is at
<http://www.fsz.bme.hu/hungary/homepage.html>; with links to the
registered Hungarian www servers, including

     - the Prime Minister's Office:  <http://www.meh.hu>; (overseas users
    please notice that the use of the <http://www.hungary.com/meh/>;
    mirror is requested to cut down transatlantic traffic!)

     - a weather forecast page (this is updated daily, and includes weather
    forecasts, meteorological maps, and METEOSAT satellite images; this
    page is in Hungarian)

     - home pages of Hungarian cities (currently Budapest, Debrecen,
    Miskolc, Pecs, Szeged), and of educational and other institutions 

     - a comprehensive list of Hungarian telnet services (e.g. library 
    databases), gopher and ftp sites (3.2). The content of almost all the 
    Hungarian FTP sites is indexed and can be searched.

 The Hungary Online Directory (HUDIR) is at
<http://www.hungary.com/hudir/>; featuring a hierarchical
database of Hungarian online content worldwide. Currently it has links
in excess of 2500.

 HIX has a WWW server in the USA: the URL is <http://hix.mit.edu>;.
To check out fresh content, see <http://hix.mit.edu/friss2/>;, which
gives you a comprehensive table of content for new material arrived in
the last 24 hours (which is typically in the order of 100-150 pages).
Besides back issues of its email journals, and a plethora of other
files in Hungarian and English, it offers an on-line English-Hungarian,
Hungarian-English dictionary (<http://hix.mit.edu/hix/szotar/>; - its
European mirror is at <http://tpri6l.gsi.de/szotar.html>;), and various
home pages and pointers to other sources. Partial mirrors located in
Hungary are <http://www.eunet.hu/eunet/hix/>; (for the Magyar Narancs
archive), and <http://hal9000.elte.hu/hix/>; (for some pictures, and
searching the Radir database - see below).

 Hungary.Network - The GateWWWay to Hungary at
<http://www.hungary.com/>; has a number of government, commercial and
organizational users listed.

 TourInform is at <http://www.hungary.com/tourinform/>; is the service
of the Hungarian Tourism Service, the official promotion agency of the
Hungarian Tourist Board. They offer practical information, maps,
broshures and even tours on video casette.

 The Open Media Research Institute has a WWW server, available at
<http://www.omri.cz>;.  Available at this Web site are all back issues
of the Daily Digest, tables of contents for Transition, OMRI's
bi-weekly analytical journal, and information about OMRI's activities
and staff.

 The World Wide Web server of Central Europe Today is at the URL
<http://www.eunet.cz>;.

 Find back issues of the Hungary Report on the World Wide Web at 
<http://www.yak.net/hungary-report/>; or <http://www.isys.hu/hol>;. 
The Hungary-Online archive is available from 
<http://www.yak.net/hungary-online/>; or <http://www.isys.hu/hrep>; 
as well.

 There is a growing Hungarian resource directory at
<http://mineral.umd.edu/hir/>;. [The same server also hosts a
"Hungarian Electronic Resources FAQ" <http://mineral.umd.edu/faq/>;.]

 There is a "Foreign Languages for Travellers" collection of essential
Hungarian expressions with English, German and French explanation,
complete with sound at
<http://insti.physics.sunysb.edu/~mmartin/languages/hungarian/hungarian.html>;.

 The American Association of Young Hungarians (AAYH) has its homepage
at <http://www.aayh.org/>;.

 A Hungarian church in Chicago has info at
 <http://users.aol.com/MikeC16958/>;.

 The Gyorgy Bessenyei Teachers Training College (Nyiregyhaza) offers 
some 3000 pages worth of database for Szabolcs-Szatmar-Bereg county 
(Eastern Hungary) as well as other goodies and general Internet help,
in both Hungarian and English: <http://www.bgytf.hu/>;.

 See also section 2.3 above, which covers
<http://www.siliconvalley.com/>; and refers to other links as well.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 3.2  Gopher and other interactive services

 HIX has a server in the USA: <gopher://hix.mit.edu>. Its services
form just a subset of what it offers as a WWW site. RaDir is sometimes
useful for finding email-addresses, old or new friends on the Net. See
also Section 4.4.

 HIX has a gopher in Hungary as well:
<gopher://hix.elte.hu/11/HIX/HIX>, and another mirror at
<gopher://gopher.bke.hu:71/11/hix> (notice that this latter uses a
non-standard Gopher port number). Check also <gopher://gopher.elte.hu>
and <gopher://gopher.sztaki.hu>. Note that gopher is essentially
text-based (thus less satisfying than the Web) but often faster
(therefore less frustrating).

 CET's gopher is called <gopher://gopher.eunet.cz>.

 HIX documents from the archives of hix.mit.edu are available via the
(Unix) 'finger' protocol. Try 'finger ' to see how it
works.  This may be the easiest and fastest access from some sites.

 There is an electronic library at
<gopher://gopher.bke.hu:71/11/elibhu/> (notice the non-standard port)
that has much Hungarian text material, including some classical
poetry.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 3.3  ARENA

 An interactive chat service of HIX, run by the Hungary.Network.
Similar to IRC, but it does NOT require any client software. Simply
<telnet:hix.hungary.com> and you are there.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 4. THE NET IN HUNGARY

 Overview: historically, ELLA was the first home-grown X.25
email-system in Hungary. It survives till this very day. EARN was next,
with its BITNET-like infrastructure (4.1). Full Internet connectivity
is provided by HUNGARNET (see 4.2), which really comprises all
academic, research and public non-profit sites.

 Here's a partial list of its domain names:

bme.hu          Technical University of Budapest
sztaki.hu       Computer and Automation Research Institute, Budapest 
elte.hu         Roland Eotvos University of Sciences, Budapest
bke.hu          Budapest University of Economic Sciences
sote.hu         Semmelweis University of Medical Sciences, Budapest
abc.hu          Agricultural Biotechnology Center, Godollo 
gau.hu          Godollo Agricultural University, Godollo
klte.hu         Kossuth Lajos University of Sciences, Debrecen
jpte.hu         Janus Pannonius University of Sciences, Pecs
u-szeged.hu     Members of the Szeged University Association
bgytf.hu        Gyorgy Bessenyei Teachers Training College
uni-miskolc.hu  University of Miskolc
kfki.hu         Central research Inst. of Physics, Budapest 
vein.hu         University of Veszprem, Veszprem
bdtf.hu         Berzsenyi College, Szombathely
szif.hu         Szechenyi Istvan College, Gyor
blki.hu         Balaton Limnological Res. Inst. of Hung. Acad. Sci.

A schematic map of its topology ('HBONE'):

EBONE    EMPB                          EMPB   EBONE

  ^       ^                             ^       ^
  |       |                             |       |
  |       |   Microwave center ======= IIF Center ------- Miskolci Egyetem
  |       |      Budapest            /   Budapest            Miskolc
  |       |    //  ||    \\         /   //   |
  |       |   //   ||     MTA-KFKI /   //    L--------------- BGYTF
  |       |  //   MBK     Budapest    //     |             Nyiregyhaza
  |       | //   Godollo             //      |
  |      BME              MTA-SzTAKI//       L--------------- KLTE
  |    Budapest ########## Budapest          |              Debrecen
  |      ***                                 |
  |      ***                                 L--------------- GAMF
  L------BKE                                 |              Kecskemet
       Budapest                              |
          #    \                             L---------- Veszpremi Egyetem
          #     \                            |              Veszprem
         ELTE    \                           |
       Budapest   JATE                       L--------------- JPTE
                 Szeged                                       Pecs

 LEGEND

 ***  100 Mbps FDDI
  #    10 Mbps optical cable (Ethernet)
  =     2 Mbps microwave
  |    64 kbps leased line (that's 0.064 Mbps)

Source: HUNGARNET/NIIF (URL <http://www.iif.hu/hungarnet.html>;)

 FidoNet is described in section 4.3, and commercial
networks/email/Internet Providers demand a separate document
('commercial.FAQ'), also see <http://www.sztaki.hu/providers/>;.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 4.1  BITNET/HUEARN

 What follows is a listing of all EARN nodes in Hungary, with contact
info.  This information is also available on the following gopher:
	 <gopher://cc1.kuleuven.ac.be/11/nodeearn/hungary.helpnode>.

HUBIIF11 IIF Department Budapest, Hungary                                      
      IIF;Hungarian Academy of Sciences;Victor Hugo 18-22;1132 Budapest
      Internet address : hubiif11.sztaki.hu                   
      User Info: Sandor ;+36 1 1497984                
      Fax : +36 1 1297866             

HUBIIF61 IIF Department Budapest, Hungary                                    
      IIF;Hungarian Academy of Sciences;Victor Hugo 18-22;1132 Budapest
      Internet address : mars.iif.hu                          
      User Info: Istvan ;+36 1 1665644
      Fax : +36 1 1297866             

HUBME11  Technical University of Budapest
     Technical University;of Budapest;Muegyetem rkp 9. R. ep;H-1111
     Budapest, Hungary           
     Internet address : atlantis.bme.hu                      
     User Info: Sandor ;+36 1 4632422               
     Fax : +36 1 1665711             

HUBME51  Technical University of Budapest                                  
     Technical University;Muegytem Rakpart 9;H-1111 Budapest               
     Internet address : bmeik.eik.bme.hu                     
     User Info: Laszlo ;+36 1 1812172                 
     Phone : +36 1 1812172            ; Fax : +36 1 1166711             

HUBPSZ12 Computer and Automation Institute Budapest, Hungary                  
     Computer and Automation Inst;Hungarian Academy of Sciences;Victor
     Hugo 18-22;1132 Budapest
     Internet address : hubpsz12.sztaki.hu                   ;
     User Info: Sandor ;+36 1 1497984                
     Phone : +36 1 1497984            ; Fax : +36 1 1297866             

HUBPSZ61 Computer and Automation Institute Budapest, Hungary
     Computer and Automation Inst;Hungarian Academy of Sciences;Victor
     Hugo 18-22;1132 Budapest
     Net Operator: Sandor ;+36 1 1497986             

HUBPSZ62 Computer and Automation Institute Budapest, Hungary                
     Computer and Automation Inst;Hungarian Academy of
     Sciences;Lagymanyosi ut 11;1111 Budapest
     Net Operator: Sandor ;+36 1 1497986             
     Phone : +36 1 2698283            ; Fax : +36 1 2698288             

HUEARN   Computer and Automation Institute Budapest, Hungary               
     Computer and Automation Inst;Hungarian Academy of Sciences;Victor
     Hugo 18-22;1132 Budapest
     Internet address : huearn.sztaki.hu                     ;
     User Info: Miklos ;+36 1 2698286                   
     Phone : +36 1 2698283            ; Fax : +36 1 2698288             

HUECO    University of Economic Sciences Budapest, Hungary                 
     University of Economic Sci;Computer Center;Kinizsi u 1-7;1092 Budapest
     Internet address : ursus.bke.hu                         ;
     User Info: Robert ;+36 1 1175224                    
     Phone : +36 1 1181317            ; Fax : +36 1 1175224             

HUELLA   Computer and Automation Institute Budapest, Hungary           
     Computer and Automation Inst;Hungarian Academy of Sciences;Victor
     Hugo 18-22;1132 Budapest
     Node admin: Gizella ;+36 1 1497986                
     Phone : +36 1 1497984            ; Fax : +36 1 1297866             

HUGBOX   Computer and Automation Institute Budapest, Hungary            
     Computer and Automation Inst;Hungarian Academy of Sciences;Victor
     Hugo 18-22;1132 Budapest
     Internet address : hugbox.sztaki.hu                    ;
     User Info: Miklos ;+36 1 1497532                
     Phone : +36 1 1497532            ; Fax : +36 1 1297866             

HUGIRK51 University of Agriculture Sciences
     University of Agriculture;Pater Karoly ut 1;H-2103 Godollo
     Internet address : vax.gau.hu                           ;
     User Info: Zoltan ;+36 28 30200 -1015              
     Phone : +36 28 30200 -1015       ; Fax : +36 28 20804              

HUKLTEDR Kossuth Lajos University Debrecen, Hungary                       
     Internet address : dragon.klte.hu                       ;
     User Info: Robert                           

HUKLTE51 Kossuth Lajos University, Debrecen                                 
     Kossuth Lajos University;Egyetem Ter 1; PF. 58;H-4010 Debrecen        
     Internet address : huni7.cic.klte.hu                    ;
     User Info: Zoltan ;+36 52 18800                      
     Phone : +36 52 18800             ; Fax : +36 52 16783              

HUSOTE51 University of Medical Science Budapest, Hungary                   
     University of Medical Science;SOTE;Ulloi u. 26.;1085 Budapest         
     Internet address : janus.sote.hu                        ;
     User Info: Gabor ;+36 1 1141705                 
     Phone : +36 1 1141705            ; Fax : +36 1 1297866

HUSZEG11 Jozsef Attila University, Szeged, Hungary                         
     Jozsef Attila University;Computer Centre;Arpad ter 2.;H-6720
     Szeged;Hungary                
     User Info: Ferenc ;+36 62 321022
     Miklos ;+36  
     Phone : +36 62 321022            ; Fax : +36 62 322227             

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 4.2  HUNGARIAN ACADEMIC AND RESEARCH NETWORK (HUNGARNET)

 This information is also available on
<http://www.ripe.net/ripe/hungarnet.html>;.

Organisational Structure: 
 HUNGARNET is an association and also the computer network of Hungarian
institutes of higher education, research and development, libraries and
other public collections. HUNGARNET funding comes from the R&D
Information Infrastructure Program (IIF) sponsored by the Hungarian
Academy of Science, the National Committee of Technological
Development, the Ministry for Culture and Education and the National
Science Foundation. About 500 organizations have access to HUNGARNET
services. HUNGARNET as an association represents Hungary in
international networking organizations (e.g. TERENA).

Generic Services:
 HUNGARNET provides access to the Internet and several other national
network services over leased lines and the public packet switched data
network. Lot of different services (e.g. gopher, ftp, WWW, data bases)
provided by member organizations are available on the net. Centrally
supported and coordinated services are:
 - email (internet SMPT, EARN BSMTP, OSI X.400, UUCP, XXX ELLA) 
 - email gateways between the different email systems above 
 - distribution services (LISTSERV, news) 
 - information services (ftp, gopher, WWW servers, data bases) 
 - directory services (X.500) 
 - individual accounts and login

External Connectivity:  
 HUNGARNET is subscriber to EBONE and EMPB/EuropaNET as well. There are
two 64 kbps leased lines to EBONE (Vienna EBS). These two lines should
be upgraded to a single 256 kbps line in the near future.  HUNGARNET
uses two 64 kbps interfaces on the EMPB/EuropaNET node in Budapest as
well. These two interfaces should also be upgraded to a single 256 kbps
interface very soon.

Internal Connectivity: 
 Internal connectivity of HUNGARNET is based partly on the public X.25
service of the Hungarian PTT and partly on the community's private IP
backbone network (HBONE). The kernel of the HBONE infrastructure is in
Budapest, where several important organizations are connected in
different ways (64-256 kbps leased lines, 1-2 Mbps microwave links, 10
Mbps optical Ethernet, 100 Mbps FDDI). Several cities (regional
centers) in the country are also connected to the network via 64 kbps
leased lines (Miskolc, Nyiregyhaza, Debrecen, Kecskemet, Szeged, Pecs,
Veszprem) and 2 Mbps microwave (Godollo). Now there are about 50
organizations directly connected to the backbone and about 50 others
using IP over X.25. The number of the registered, connected hosts is
about ten thousand. There is an ongoing development, new regional
centers (Kaposvar, Keszthely, Szombathely, Sopron, Gyor) and several
organizations in Budapest will be connected subsequently.  Many users
do not have IP connectivity yet but are connected to the public X.25
network. There are several services (e.g. individual login, mail,
gopher, news) that are open for traditional XXX/X.25 access.

Contact Persons:
Miklos NAGY <mailto:> - head of the HUNGARNET/IIF 
					coordination office
Laszlo CSABA <mailto:> - HUNGARNET/IIF technical director
Balazs MARTOS <mailto:> - HBONE project manager
Nandor HORVATH <mailto:> - Local Internet Registry, 
				.hu top level domain contact
IP address and domain administration: <mailto:> 
Network management: <mailto:>

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 4.3  FidoNet

 FidoNet connects through sztaki.hu, as indicated above.

 There are three FidoNet nodes: Budapest NET (2:371/0); West Hungary
Net (2:372/0); and Tisza NET (2:370/0). If you want to write on the
FidoNet, chances are you already know how. *PLEASE* find out what you
are about to do instead of experimenting with the Hungarian net - don't
add to the problems for the folks in Hungary having to deal with the
underdeveloped phone system and outrageous international tolls ;-<. For
further information I post a Fido-sheet separately from this FAQ, where
there are also telephone numbers and further addresses, but again: try
to verify that you are mailing to a valid address (the BBS situation
may have changed since the copy you are reading got updated - look for
current FIDO listing on the net, or better yet contact the person you
want to reach by other means first)!. If you can send Internet email
and have the FidoNet address, you can write to it by transforming it to
appropriate .FIDONET.ORG format.

 Fidonet mail works with Hungarian BBS's but you have to know whom to
reach. I will attempt to maintain a separate Fido posting to Usenet;
please try to make sure you email to a valid address and in particular
avoid using outdated sources on Hungarian BBS's (otherwise your
misdirected trial will burden the Hungarian network coordinator!).

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 4.4  Finding out somebody's email-address in Hungary

 The bigger academic domains have on-line directories (CSO phonebooks):

Technical University, Budapest
      gopher://goliat.eik.bme.hu/11/engl/tel-adat/hazi-tele

Budapest University of Economic Sciences*
      gopher://URSUS.BKE.HU:71/11/kozgaz/telefon
(*under construction)

Semmelweis University of Medical Sciences, Budapest
      <gopher://xenia.sote.hu:105/2>

Central Research Inst. of Physics, Budapest
      <gopher://sunserv.kfki.hu:105/2>

Members of the Szeged University Association
      <gopher://sol.cc.u-szeged.hu:105/2>

Janus Pannonius University of Sciences, Pecs
      <gopher://ipiux.jpte.hu:1051/2>
	<http://ipisun.jpte.hu/cgi-bin/ph.pl>;

University of Veszprem
      <gopher://miat0.vein.hu:105/2>

 ELLA also has an on-line directory: <telnet://hugbox.sztaki.hu:203>
(i.e. address a special port). Note that the opening screen uses
special characters for the accented letters but the data records have
combinations of vowel plus ',: or " instead (i.e. searching for
hollo'si would retrieve a record, but hollosi won't)!

 If the person has registered him/herself with the RaDir database of
HIX, you might try the following (note, however, that most parts of
RaDir are badly out of date):

 - by <gopher://hix.mit.edu/11/HIX/radir> (a link to the same is
offered by <http://hix.mit.edu/hix/>; on the World Wide Web); from
inside Hungary use <gopher://hix.elte.hu/11/HIX/HIX/radir>, or
<http://hal9000.elte.hu/hix/radir.html>; (this last one is a true HTML
search form)). Under RaDir, you'll find the entire database
cross-indexed by search keys.

 - by 'finger +whois:"SEARCHWORD"@hix.mit.edu' you can look up records
containing "SEARCHWORD" string in the database

 - by email: send a blank message <mailto:>. You'll
receive, in several chunks, the entire database of users, their
electronic and snail-mail addresses, etc. You'll need a decent editor
to search what you're looking for.

 If you have some idea what institution to check at, you may find an
online directory service -- many are available, and could be reached
through the Hungarian gophers (or WWW sites) mentioned in section 3.
Try contacting the (electronic) postmaster, usually
, or using 'finger' to inquire about users.

 As a last resort, send in your query to a discussion group. Readers of
<news:soc.culture.magyar>, <mailto:> discussion
list (section 1.7), or some HIX-list (<mailto:> in
particular, see 2.1) may be able to help. Be aware, though, that most
participants are located abroad - especially in the case of the Usenet
group!

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 5.  ODDS AND ENDS

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 5.1  Traveling with a computer in Hungary

 The electricity is 220 V, 50 Hz. The frequency, in fact, fluctuates a
lot, but it doesn't cause any problem when operating computer devices.
(Don't trust too much your plug-in clock radios though.) If you are
from any country running on 110 V or around, due to complications in
voltage conversion, a battery driven laptop or notebook is your best
bet. However, if you decide to take your desktop system, printer, etc.,
you  have a good chance that the device can also be operated on 220 V.
Check it first before you go through unnecessary trouble. If not, you
have to apply 220 V to 110 V AC converters (you might need more than
one; check the power ratings of your devices & converters). WARNING!
Your converters should be designed for *electronic/motorized devices*.
Refuse any converter for *heating appliances* even if its power rating
is much higher! These converters are not real transformers, and can
cause major damages to your electronic devices.

 Also make sure you are able to connect to the Hungarian grounded power
outlet, because that's what's recommended for your appliances.
Therefore you should try to find grounded plug adapters and/or voltage
converters.  Connecting to ungrounded outlets causes possibly no harm,
but for your own & your devices' safety grounded connections should be
preferred.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 5.2  Conventions & standards for coding Hungarian accents

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 5.2.0 Introduction & section overview  

 During the evolution of teletypes and computers, two character tables
survived, acquiring major importance in later computer systems. One is
EBCDIC, primarily used in ancient IBM mainframes. The other one, ASCII,
can be considered today's ubiquitous standard in computing worldwide.
The rest of this section, therefore, pays attention to ASCII code, very
unfairly ignoring EBCDIC, since none of the accent conversion programs
support neither this code table nor the CMS environment.

 Since the language of computing has been English from the beginning,
the original ASCII table was limited to the characters used in English:
letters of the Latin alphabet, a few punctuation marks and some other
special symbols. Since the number of all these characters, plus the
unprintable "control" characters (located in the first 32 positions of
the ASCII table, responsible for different control functions) doesn't
exceed 128, the real 'brilliant' idea of representing the ASCII table
in 7 bits spread like wild fire all over the computer world. No wonder,
that most of the Internet mailers and Usenet hubs are also set up to
forward documents in 7-bit ASCII only.  (Read the rest of the section
carefully to learn how to overcome these problems.) As computing and
word processing started to rise up in the rest of the world, there was
an increasing demand to represent these national characters as well. (A
good example is Hungarian. The extra consonants [nonexistent in
English] are formed by merely juxtaposing 2 (or 3 in case of dzs)
regular Latin characters; so there is no problem here.  However, the
special vowels of the language are denoted by applying different
accents on the Latin 'base-vowel', introducing new characters, the so
called accented vowels.) It's an obvious idea to place these national
characters and other fancy symbols utilizing codes 128 to 255, still
remaining within the byte limit. Different character sets have been
created by defining purpose- or language-specific characters for the
upper half of the table, while keeping the 7-bit ASCII codes unchanged.
(Note:  Some character sets also re-use codes between 0 and 31, the
domain of ASCII control characters, keeping some, or none of them.
Using these codes, however, is pretty difficult, device- and
implementation-dependent, etc.  Therefore it wouldn't be wise to put
accented characters here, but fortunately none of the sets listed below
did it actually.) Hopefully Unicode will ultimately stop this
confusion, but until then there's a long long way to go.

At this point let's clarify the terminology:

... ASCII (also 7-bit or plain ASCII) data:
Usually text (but not necessarily, see 5.2.5.1.), containing only 7-bit
ASCII characters, including the control ones.
... 8-bit (extended) ASCII data:
Text containing the uniform 7-bit ASCII characters, plus special
characters (with code greater than 127) according to one of the 8-bit
character sets.
... Binary data:
Non-text data (executables, pictures, etc.) containing any 8-bit value.

 The different kludges accepted by Internet users to denote accented
vowels in 7-bit ASCII are described in 5.2.1. The most important
extended ASCII character sets are introduced in 5.2.2. 5.2.3 shows the
accented character representations used by high-level formatting
languages. The correct ways of transferring files among word processor
[on the Net] are detailed in 5.2.4. If the data to be transferred is
not 7-bit ASCII, 5.2.5 tells you what to do. Last, but not least, 5.2.6
introduces the programs in the HIX archives (and mentions some others)
that address the problem of conversion between the various types of
accent representation.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 5.2.1 House rules for plain (7-bit) ASCII

 If you are limited to the use of 7-bit ASCII, you have essentially the
following choices to deal with the accented characters:

5.2.1.0 No accent marks at all

 Simple and sure-fire. In fact, the most common 'solution'.

5.2.1.1 The '~" coding (also called "marking notation" or "Babai-code")
        [Sometimes nicknamed as _repu~lo"_.]

 Here's a sample:

         O~t hu"to"ha'zbo'l ke'rtu~nk szi'nhu'st
         a'rvi'ztu"ro" tu~ko~rfu'ro'ge'p
         O~t sze'p szu"zla'ny o"ru~lt i'ro't nyu'z

or, in the alternative ':" _repu:lo"_ format:

         O:t hu"to"ha'zbo'l ke'rtu:nk szi'nhu'st
         a'rvi'ztu"ro" tu:ko:rfu'ro'ge'p
         O:t sze'p szu"zla'ny o"ru:lt i'ro't nyu'z

 Quite readable, though a bit tricky to disambiguate mechanically:
remember, the " or : or ' may also serve as punctuation marks. (This
problem can be handled using Maxent's escaping capabilities, see
5.2.6.6.)

Warning! Don't get confused: in TeX (see 5.2.3.1) " denotes umlaut!

5.2.1.2 The 123 coding (also "numerical notation" or "Pro1sze1ky-code")

 Here's the same text:

         O2t hu3to3ha1zbo1l ke1rtu2nk szi1nhu1st
         a1rvi1ztu3ro3 tu2ko2rfu1ro1ge1p
         O2t sze1p szu3zla1ny o3ru2lt i1ro1t nyu1z

 The only one that's both short and unambiguous, though it takes some
getting used to. 1 stands for the stroke, 2 for the short umlaut, 3 for
the 'Hungarian' or long umlaut (double acute). Very easily converted to
other formats. (Also can be ambiguous, though with much smaller
probability. E.g. U2, CO2, , etc.)

5.2.1.3 Telegraphic style. For example,

         Oet huetoehaazbool keertuenk sziinhuust
         aarviiztueroe tuekoerfuuroogeep
         Oet szeep szuezlaany oeruelt iiroot nyuuz

 Avoid it like the plague because

1. It's ambiguous. (Think of Goethe, Oetker, Eoersi, Csooori, poeen.) 
2. Coding of o" & u" (o3 & u3) is not consistent:
   u3 = ue (fallback to u2), uue, uee, ueue
3. Absolutely not a pleasure to read.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 5.2.2 Fancy 8-bit character sets (extended ASCII)

 The following rollcall lists the most important character sets
supported by the majority of hardware and software, including the
accent conversion programs. The available Hungarian accented characters
are detailed for each set.

Notes: 

 Henceforth when referring to an accented character, the numerical
(Pro1sze1ki) notation will be used to maintain clarity.


5.2.2.1 PC-codepages

(*) PC-437: Hardware

 The basic hardware character set of PC-compatible systems. Since it
was supposed to contain many symbols (line drawing characters, some
Greek letters, etc.), and be general, it's pretty poor in terms of
accented characters. Missing Hungarian vowels: o3, u3 [substitute them
with o^ & u^], A1 [substitute it with A-circle], I1, O1, O3, U1, U3.

(*) CWI recommendation for Hungarian accents:

A standard initiative to replace the many house rules of character code
assignment for accents unavailable in PC-437. Codes are assigned as
follows:

o3->147 [o^], u3->150 [u^], A1->143, I1->141 [i`] or 140 [I^],
O1->149 [o`], O3->167, U1->151 [u`], U3->153 [y~]

(*) PC-850: Multilingual

Contains all the accented vowels but ?3. Substitute them with ?^.
Note: ? means o, u, O or U.

(*) PC-852: Latin 2

Contains all the accented vowels. Try to use this if available.

(*) PC-860: Portuguese
(*) PC-863: Canadian-French
(*) PC-865: Nordic

These sets miss various Hungarian accents, esp. in upper case. Using
them for a Hungarian text makes absolutely no sense.

5.2.2.2 ISO character sets

 These character sets are specified by ISO standards. As far as ALL
(not only Hungarian) accented vowels concerned, ISO 8859/1, 2 & 9 is
equivalent to Windows Latin 1, 2 & 5 respectively.

(*) ISO 8859/1:
(*) ISO 8859/3:

Contain all the accented vowels but ?3. Substitute them with ?^.

(*) ISO 8859/2:

Contains all the accented vowels. Try to use this if available.

 Fonts for iso-8859-2 (and some other) character sets can be found at
<ftp://ftp.tarki.hu/pub/font/> for various operation systems, and at
<ftp://almos.vein.hu/ssa/kbd_es_font/> (mirrored at
<ftp://ftp.vma.bme.hu/pub/ssa/kbd_es_font/> and
<ftp://ftp.tarki.hu/pub/ssa/kbd_es_font/>) mostly for Unix. There is
material for Hungarianizing the Linux (and possibly other Unix variant)
operation system at <ftp://ftp.tarki.hu/pub/magyar/linux/>.

5.2.2.3 Others

The following character sets are supported by various laser printers. 
Roman-8 bears special importance as being the default character set of
many printers.

(*) Ventura International & Roman-8:
(*) MC Text:

Contain all the accented vowels but ?3. Substitute them with ?^.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 5.2.3 Text formatting languages

 The text formatting languages listed below, beyond their powerful text
formatting capabilities, also include the specification of [almost] all
the accented characters. These languages give an alternative way of
dealing with accents in 7-bit ASCII, especially if the software that
can display, print or convert these representations is available.
[Unlike notations in 5.2.1, the "raw" files of these languages are not
intended to be read by ordinary users.]

5.2.3.1 [La]TeX. 

 Invented by D. E. Knuth, TeX (pronounce as [tech]; 'X' denotes the
Greek letter 'chi'), and the macro collection based on it, LaTeX, are
today's most popular text formatting languages for document creation
and DTP.

To continue with the same example,

 \"{O}t h\H{u}t\H{o}h\'{a}zb\'{o}l k\'{e}rt\"{u}nk sz\'{\i}nh\'{u}st

 \'{a}rv\'{\i}zt\H{u}r\H{o} t\"{u}k\"{o}rf\'{u}r\'{o}g\'{e}p

 \"{O}t sz\'{e}p sz\H{u}zl\'{a}ny \H{o}r\"{u}lt \'{i}r\'{o}t ny\'{u}z

 This is meant to be printed with TeX or previewed as a dvi file.
 Wholly unambiguous, can be automatically converted to/from several
other formats (see 5.2.6). Also check the babel system for LaTeX with
the Hungarian specific option, available from FTP sites kth.se or
goya.dit.upm.es.

5.2.3.2 HTML (HyperText Markup Language)

 Unfortunately, the HTML-2 standard still does not contain notation for
Hungarumlaut (long umlaut, double acute). We use tilde or circumflex
instead. The preferred notation is o with tilde õ and u with
circumflex û. In the example above,

   Öt hûtõházból kértünk
   színhúst

   árvíztûrõ
   tükörfúrógép

   Öt szép szûzlány õrült
   írót nyúz

5.2.3.3 RTF (Rich Text Format)

 This standard is widespread among Microsoft word processors. For
non-ASCII characters it uses the following coding:

\'XX

where XX is the code of the given ISO 8859/2 (or PC-852 for Word for
DOS) character in hexadecimal.

5.2.3.4 Adobe PostScript

 It is a universal standard for describing any kind of graphics,
including fonts, but it is aimed at producing the final (typically
printed) copy of documents and not at word-processing per se. For a
starter document see <http://www.adobe.com/PS/PS-QA.html>; or
<ftp://wilma.cs.brown.edu/pub/comp.lang.postscript/FAQ.txt> or
<ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet-by-group/comp.answers/postscript/faq/part1-4>.
If one has the right accented fonts sets then, in theory, the output is
transferable between different machines - but often we run into hurdles
in practice.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 5.2.4 Microcomputer products: The word processors 

 Different word processors on different microcomputers use several
proprietary internal control sequences to handle accented characters,
as much as other symbols, and other text formatting commands. If you
want to transfer a document like this, you have to convert this [very
probably] binary file (8-bit ASCII with all kinds of binary crap) to
text (7-bit ASCII), see 5.2.5.1, unless your mailer can handle binary
directly, see 5.2.5.2. Make sure, however, that the recipient of your
document also possesses the same or equivalent word processor, or a
word processor supporting the format you used.

 It might happen that you want to use your document in another word
processing system, or a plain text editor. Today's word processors
offer conversion to a few formats, and also pure text with different
character sets (5.2.2). The resulting file, if necessary, can be
converted further to 7-bit ASCII as shown in 5.2.6. (The output is
already 7-bit ASCII in Microsoft's RTF, see 5.2.3.3.)

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 5.2.5 Switching binary to ASCII and vice versa

5.2.5.1 Uuencode & uudecode

 The easiest and most popular way of conversion between binary and
ASCII is the use of the twin sisters uuencode and uudecode. These
programs were created originally for Unix ('uu' stands for Unix to
Unix), but today they are implemented under most platforms.

 Uuencode makes an ASCII file out of a binary one, forming 61 character
long lines to avoid problems excessively long lines can cause in the
different mailer agents. This conversion increases the size of the file
by 40%.  Warning! Understand the really goofy usage of uuencode. The
parameters specify the local & remote BINARY filenames respectively.
The encoded ASCII result is sent to the standard output, it has to be
redirected into a file explicitly. (E.g. uuencode myface.gif myface.gif
> myface.uue )

 Uudecode converts the encoded ASCII file back to binary. It is smart:
using the "begin" and "end" tags placed in the encoded file, uudecode
is able to retrieve the encoded information automatically discarding
everything before and after the tags (headers, signatures, other junk),
even if it's inserted in the middle of the Encyclopedia Britannica. Its
usage is also simple: only the input filename has to be specified; the
original filename is restored from the "begin" tag. (E.g. uudecode
yourface.mal )

5.2.5.2 MIME support

 Many modern mailers support the MIME (Multipurpose Internet Mail
Extensions) standard being able to transfer different file formats
beyond plain text. In this case the ASCII/binary conversion is the
mailer's internal affair. Some mailers make explicit calls to uuencode
and uudecode, some others (e.g. PINE) have different built in
conversion algorithms, trying to choose the most appropriate one for
the given binary file. (One type of MIME encoding substitutes an
unprintable character by its code in hexadecimal, preceded by an =
sign. That's why you often see them splattered around.) In either case,
however, the user is not responsible for the conversion, the mailer
takes care of it automatically.

5.2.5.3 Binhex

 BinHex files are 7-bit ASCII text files, typically used for encoding
Macintosh binaries. Conversion is done by various applications, see eg.
<ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet-by-group/comp.answers/macintosh/general-faq>.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 5.2.6 Translating between various accent formats

 From the HIX archives (see section 3) the following programs are
available.  The regular location is 
<http://hix.mit.edu/hix/hixcore/senddoc/info/programs/>;, though
you should also check <http://hix.mit.edu/hix/hixcore/senddoc/new/>; 
for updates. At the time of this writing the SENDDOC archive is 
extremely ill-organized and outdated in many parts, including, 
unfortunately, the 'new' directory.

 Warning! From abroad always access the HIX archives via 
<http://hix.mit.edu/hix/hixcore/senddoc/>;,
<gopher://hix.mit.edu/11/HIX/senddoc>,
<mailto:>, or 'finger '
(the latter only works for text, and you may have to redirect it to a
pager or file). The mirror at <gopher://hix.elte.hu> is updated only at
certain periods of time, also there is a limited bandwidth on the lines
connecting Hungary to the world (see section 4).

5.2.6.1 ekezettelenites

 Gabor Toth's UNIX shell script for deleting unwanted accents from mail
files.

5.2.6.2 etex

 Gabor Toth's shareware C source code for converting the marking or
numerical accent notation to TeX-format. It also claims to be capable
of hyphenation. Supports the UNIX platform.

5.2.6.3 hion

 Peter Verhas's C source code. It's an improved version of etex, as it
reduces the probability of incorrect hyphenation with some built-in
exception library. Hion is able to do the conversion between the
numerical (or, redefining each accent mark, also the marking) accent
notation & TeX-format, and remove accents if the input is an accent
notation. Read his documentation. Supported platforms: VMS, MS-DOS,
UNIX. Available from <ftp://ftp.tarki.hu/pub/magyar/TeX/hion.tar.gz>
or <ftp://ftp.digital.bme.hu/hion/>.

5.2.6.4 drtc.c

 Peter Verhas's freeware C source for conversion between text and RTF
(Rich Text Format), character sets ISO 8852/2 (Latin 2), PC-852 (Latin
2) and CWI. The program attempts to find out the inbound format
automatically, RTF or text as well as used character set. The outbound
format is the same as the inbound format, the program changes only the
character set. In other words, the program does not convert from RTF ot
text or from text to RTF. Supported platforms: VMS, MS-DOS, & UNIX and
other platforms supporting ANSI C.

5.2.6.5 hun.c

 Gabor Ligeti's freeware C source code for accent removal and
conversion between the marking & numerical accent notation, TeX-format
and PC-852 (Latin 2) codepage. Warning! Conversion capabilities are not
orthogonal, type hun /? for the supported conversions. No platform
limitations are indicated.

5.2.6.6 MAXENT.UUE_V6.0a

 Peter Csaszar's freeware C source code compressed with pkzip & encoded
with uuencode (see 5.2.5.1). Warning! As of 6/12/95, the HIX gopher's
/HIX/SENDDOC/info/programs directory still contains 'maxent.c', the
very old version V1.4 of Maxent. Don't touch this file, go for version
V6.0a, currently in <http://hix.mit.edu/hix/hixcore/senddoc/new/MAXENT.Z>;.

 Maxent provides 100% orthogonality in conversion between any of the
accent notations listed in 5.2.1 but telegraphic style, and any of the
character sets listed in 5.2.2, allowing multiple notations in the
input file. The domain of conversion includes 6 vowels and 6 accent
types, applying therefore a house rule extension of the marking and
numerical accent notations. (Hoping that this extension becomes widely
accepted, no longer remaining a house rule.) Language accent profiles
other than the default Hungarian can be selected. Further accent
services include accent notation escaping & de-escaping (see 5.2.1.1),
and flexible substitution of the o3 etc. characters.

 Beyond some little services, the rest of the major features provide
comprehensive retabulation strategies, full newline conversion
capabilities and script file execution (ideal for maintaining mail
folders after download).

 The help given by the program can be saved into a file by typing
maxent -h0 > maxent.hlp . Print this file for fancy bedtime reading.

 Maxent supports only the MS-DOS environment, and should be compiled by
a Borland C compiler. This is the sacrifice for the extensive services
provided.

5.2.6.7 ekezet.dot

 Via anonymous <ftp://bme-tel.ttt.bme.hu/pub/income/ekezetes/>, you can
find Kornel Umann's WinWord template capable of many kinds of
conversion.  Also find other goodies in the directory above.

5.2.6.8 hixiso

 Olivier Clary's Unix scripts for converting accented text appearing
on HIX are at <ftp://almos.vein.hu/ssa/kbd_es_font/hixiso.tar.gz>.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject:  5.3 Information sources pertaining to the rest of Central Europe

 This section is by no means to be comprehensive. For a big but dated
(1992) list see
<gopher://poniecki.berkeley.edu/00/archives/polish.archives/Network/EE-MotherLi
st>.

 Both OMRI and CET cover the general region in their news. See Section
1.1 and 1.2, respectively.

 To complement the HUNGARY list (see Section 1.7), at the same listserv
at Buffalo there exist the Middle European discussion list MIDEUR-L as
well as POLAND-L and SLOVAK-L. Send the usual command to
<mailto:> (or simply  on
BITNET):

      SUBSCRIBE listname-L Yourfirstname Yourlastname.

 On Usenet there is soc.culture.romanian, soc.culture.czecho-slovak,
soc.culture.polish, and the gatewayed bit.listserv.mideur-l and
bit.listserv.slovak-l; bit.listserv.hungary has been established, but
many sites do not have it. The surest way to receive everything is via
email. If you prefer using Usenet newsreaders you find HIX's HUNGARY
digests posted to soc.culture.magyar (which group does not seem to
suffer the poor propagation affecting some of the bit.listserv
groups).  Please notice that while the listserv groups are
bi-directionally gatewayed, i.e. posts to them get propagated back to
the original mailing list, the posts coming from HIX to
soc.culture.magyar are mere copies of the mailing list messages - do
not reply to the newgroups since your answer won't reach the email
readers (who constitute a likely large majority).

 Speaking of limitations of distribution be aware that some commercial
Internet connection providers (most blatantly American Online)
established their own groups with topics overlapping existing Usenet
hierarchy. The utility of these local groups is seriously limited since
they are, unlike the open real Usenet newsgroups such as those
mentioned above, unavailable to anyone but their own subscribers (i.e.
a small domestic fraction of all the Internet/Usenet users worldwide).
Please do not post to non-local groups saying how nice would be to use
these specialized forums - we can not. Use the newsgroup
soc.culture.magyar or the mailing lists!

 The Central European Regional Research Organization (CERRO) can be
joined at <mailto:> with the command
SUBSCRIBE CERRO-L Firstname Lastname.  This is a scholarly group that
deposits papers and the like in an electronic archive in Vienna.  The
archive is accessible with anonymous <ftp://wu-wien.ac.at>, or with
<gopher://gopher.wu-wien.ac.at>.

 The Eastern Europe Business Network ) is
primarily remarkable for its size (1700+ subscribers). Messages tend to
be brief bursts of announcements, questions and, unsurprisingly, calls
for or queries about business. The list is administered by Yale's Civic
Education Project (Chris Owen, <mailto:>). To
subscribe, send a message to the address
<mailto:> that has

             subscribe e-europe YourFirstName YourLastName
in its body.

 The repository for Voice of America material, accessible with
<gopher://gopher.voa.gov>, also contains some information and news
items relevant to the region.

 Check the NATO archive for goodies: <gopher://gopher.nato.int>.

 The Slovakia Document Store will answer all your questions about
Slovakia:  on the World Wide Web, <http://www.eunet.sk>;, via
<gopher://gopher.eunet.sk>, via <ftp://ftp.eunet.sk/slovakia/>, via
gophermail: send a message with Subject: HELP
<mailto:>.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 6.  CONTRIBUTORS TO THIS FAQ

(the order is alphabetical by last name)

Beke Tibor     <mailto:>           general layout, 2.1, 5.3
Bruner, Rick   <mailto:>     1.3
Csaszar Peter  <mailto:>   5.1, 5.2
Fabian Peter   <mailto:> 3.1, 4.1, 4.4
Fekete Zoli    <mailto:>           much of the rest
Hewes, Cameron <mailto:>      1.2
Hollo Kriszta  <mailto:>         4.2
Saghi-Szabo Gotthard <mailto:>, section 1.8
Toth, Joseph   <mailto:>, section 2.3
Umann Kornel   <mailto:>        5.2
Varnum, Ken    <mailto:>       1.1

 If you have a question or remark regarding some specific section, you
may want to contact its author. The FAQ as such continues to be
maintained by Zoli Fekete <mailto:>. The keeper hereby
expresses the many thanks we all owe to every contributor - and above
all to Tibor Beke who brought about this cooperative effort, and took
upon consolidating the whole (with Peter Csaszar who took over the
next-to-last editing). Still, any errors (with the exception of the
independently maintained section 2.3) are the responsibility of Zoli -
who'd like to hear all corrections, recommendations or just comments
readers may have!
 Acknowledgement is also due here to Jozsef Hollosi and Arpad Palotas,
for providing webspace to this FAQ on the HIX server and helping to
improve its homepage, respectively.

- - - ------------------------------

Subject: 7.      How to read this FAQ - what's in there < ~!@#$%^&* >

 One of these days ;-) there will be a guide here about how to handle
all the strange things that you may see embedded in this text; but in
the meantime, if you don't know yet what URLs are and are not reading a
copy thru a WWW browser that may show a selectable link: just do the
sensible thing and use email to access 'mailto:' addresses, ftp for
'ftp:' and telnet for 'telnet:'...

 Updated versions of this document will be in
<http://hix.mit.edu/hungarian-faq/posted>;
or <ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet/news.answers/hungarian-faq>. Notice
that the canonical Usenet archive <ftp://rtfm.mit.edu> is often
overloaded - if you can't get connected try one of the mirror sites (of
which a list by countries can be found in
<ftp://mirrors.aol.com/pub/rtfm/usenet/news.answers/news-answers/introduction>
that is also available thru the RTFM mail-server shown below) - eg.
<ftp://mirrors.aol.com/pub/rtfm/usenet/news.answers/hungarian-faq> in
the USA! You can also retrieve it via <mailto:>
with the command "send usenet/news.answers/hungarian-faq" in the body
of the message, or via 'finger '.
 A brief extract of hungarian-faq, concentrating on the email services,
is also available now
<http://hix.mit.edu/hungarian-faq/hungarian-faq-pointer>; or 
'finger '.
 A separate document on network service providers in Hungary
prepared independently by John Horvath <mailto:> is
available via email from its author or via
<http://hix.mit.edu/hungarian-faq/comm-providers>;.

 This hungarian-faq is expected to be updated at least every couple of
months, due to the rapid changes occuring on the net. If you are
reading a copy whose 'Last-modified:' date shown on top is older than
that then many parts may be out of date - in this case get the recent
one from the sources listed above, and/or try to convince the
administrator of the site keeping the old copy to freshen it. Please
notice that retrieving from the Usenet archives is likely a lot faster
than asking me personally (and most everything I can answer is already
in here)! If you do write me <mailto:>, then give a
descriptive 'Subject:' line - keep in mind that much of my incoming
email deemed unworthy by me is deleted unread in order to keep up with
the high volume I am receiving (most of it from various mailing
lists). The best way to ensure catching my attention - and to allow
automatized pre-processing - is to start it with 'ZFIX:' (the name my
mail-handler answers to is Zophisticated Free Information eXchange, in
case you were wondering :-)).

 This work as a collection is copyright (1990-96) Zoli Fekete, and
parts are copyright of their respective authors. Please do not
redistribute substantial portions without contacting the maintainer.
 Since February 14, 1996 this document is authenticated 
by my secure public-key encrypted electronic signature 
(see <http://www.ifi.uio.no/pgp>; for details), 
 the public key for which is shown in the WWW link 
<http://hix.mit.edu/hungarian-faq/pgp-key.asc>; 
and is also attached to the end of the text available via
 'finger '!
 Unauthorized publishing in off-line media - such as printed, CD-ROM or 
magnetic databases - is explicitly prohibited!  

Archive-name: hungarian/faq
Soc-culture-magyar-archive-name: faq
Last-modified: 1996/02/14
Version: 1.41
Posting-Frequency: every fifteen days
- - - --
 Zoli , keeper of <http://hix.mit.edu/hungarian-faq/>;
 <'finger '> 

SELLERS BEWARE: I will never buy anything from companies associated
with inappropriate online advertising (unsolicited commercial email,
excessive multiposting etc), and discourage others from doing so too!

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Mostma'r csak egyet nem tudok:

A Zsido' az most nemzet, vagy valla's?

Ha nemzet, akkor hogy lehet valaki zsido' e's magyar is egyben? (Ketto~s 
a'llampolga'rsa'g?)
Ha valla's akkor mie'rt hivja o"ket az o'szo:vetse'g nemzetnek?
Ha mindketto~ akkor meg mi a jo'fene'nek vitatkozunk ma'r 2 hete ezen a 
marhasa'gon?
Ha egyik sem, akkor nem szo'ltam semmit.

Igaza van Barsai Ga'bornak: besze'lju:nk inka'bb a NO"KRO"L!

Apropo Ga'bor: a speno't nem magyaros e'tel (Re: k....ra utalom a magyaros 
eteleket) Mindenesetre nya'ron a'tjo:hetne'l szalonna't su:tni, bor is lesz!
Gyuri

Valasz Ivan Marinovnak.
Nagyon teved, mert a kommunistaknak nagyon is vannak "nemzeti" erzeseik, amelye
ket inkabb 
sovinizmusnak lehetne nevezni. Kedves baratunk, on csak nezzen korul a Karpat-m
edenceben! A 
Magyarorszagot korulvevo "barati" szomszedainknal az elmult 50 ev alatt beteges
 sovinizmussal 
etettek a nepeket, mialatt hazankban mindent elkovettek, hogy nepunkben kioljek
 a 
magyarsagtudatot es az onbizalmat. Ezert muvelik a szlovakok azt a magyarokkal 
amit muvelnek - 
a hires alapszerzodes ellenere - s ezert uldozik az erdelyi magyarokat a romano
k, akik 1920 ota 
meg mindig a Tiszanal tervezgetik Nagy-Romania nyugati hatarat. A magyarok hely
zete nem kulonb 
a Delvideken sem!
Nos, ha "kommunista" es "cionista" ennyire ellentmodana egymasnak, akkor a cion
istak lennenek 
az elsok a vilagon, akik uldoznek a kommunistakat. Azonban a jelek eppen ennek 
az ellenkezojet 
bizonyitjak.
Az "-izmusok"  - igy a szocialdemokracia, a kommunizmus, a marxizmus-leninizmus
, a 
szocializmus, vagy a sztalinizmus a kommunizmusbol atvedlesztett reform-kommuni
zmus - csupan 
merfoldkovek a vilaguralom eleresehez. - Pozsgay mondotta egyszer kanadai korut
jan: "Ha a kigyo 
meg akar maradni, levedli a boret!" Grosz Karoly is mondott  hasonlot:" A mente
t nem levetni, 
hanem atgombolni akarjuk!" .... Csak vannak akik nem figyelnek oda!
http://www.infobahnos.com/~jtoth

Carolina Elortegui wrote:
> 
> --
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Carolina Elortegui                         Laboratorio de Postgrado
> Universidad Central de Venezuela                      Administrador
> Facultad de Ciencias
> Escuela de Computacion             E-mail: 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 
>     ---------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> I collect phone cards, and I'm very interesting in swaping phone
> cards.
> 
> If you want to swap phone cards, please, e-mail me at:
> 
>         
> 
> Thanks
> 
> CarolinaBefore I can send you a collection of the phone cards that you need, 
I do 
wish to make mention of the name Kuma that it is my name could you please 
send me an E-mail on  explaining what it means in your 
region.

thanks
kum

EZ A "MASSAG" MAR FELHABORITO!
[Magyarorszagon 5,500 eszrevehetoen eldurvult buncselekmeny kulfoldiek
altal]
[A "Nemzet" hireibol] Kulfoldi allampolgarok 5,500 buncselekmenyt kovettek el
tavaly Magyarorszag teruleten! A rendorseg szakemberei szerint ahhoz
kepest, hogy evente 40 millio kulfoldi latogat hazankba, ez
elhanyagolhato adat. [Marmint szamszerint]. Ugyanakkor az is igaz,
hogy az utobbi idoben a kulfoldiek altal elkovetett buncselekmenyek
eszrevehetoen eldurvultak - hivta fel a figyelmet Simon Sandor alezredes,
 az ORFK bunugyi foosztalyvezetoje (Magyar Hirlap). 
[Tehat ha csak ot es felezer ujpesti geppisztolyparbajt, Prater utcai autobomba
-robban-
tast kovetnek el kulfoldi maffiozok, az "elhanyagolhato". Ez most vicc vagy kom
oly?]

In article >,
Gyorgy Kovacs > wrote:
>Apropo Ga'bor: a speno't nem magyaros e'tel (Re: k....ra utalom a magyaros
>eteleket) Mindenesetre nya'ron a'tjo:hetne'l szalonna't su:tni, bor is lesz!

OK. Hol es mikor? Acapulco-ban? Cancun? Miami? Balatonfured?

Gabor

In article >,
judit toth  > wrote:
| EZ A "MASSAG" MAR FELHABORITO!
| [Magyarorszagon 5,500 eszrevehetoen eldurvult buncselekmeny kulfoldiek
| altal]
| [A "Nemzet" hireibol] Kulfoldi allampolgarok 5,500 buncselekmenyt kovettek el
| tavaly Magyarorszag teruleten! A rendorseg szakemberei szerint ahhoz
| kepest, hogy evente 40 millio kulfoldi latogat hazankba, ez
| elhanyagolhato adat. [Marmint szamszerint]. Ugyanakkor az is igaz,
| hogy az utobbi idoben a kulfoldiek altal elkovetett buncselekmenyek
| eszrevehetoen eldurvultak - hivta fel a figyelmet Simon Sandor alezredes,
|  az ORFK bunugyi foosztalyvezetoje (Magyar Hirlap). 
| [Tehat ha csak ot es felezer ujpesti geppisztolyparbajt, Prater utcai autobom
ba-robban-
| tast kovetnek el kulfoldi maffiozok, az "elhanyagolhato". Ez most vicc vagy k
omoly?]


MIert a massag felhaborito? Miert nem a bunozes?

 () wrote:

>... being able to attack Hungarians without having to accept responses
>from them, right?  Good try, Nick!  This would be in the best traditions
>of the Ceau era.  Moderation has no place in forums dominated by
>political discussions.
>
>Joe Pannon

Joe, you're wrong. No one atacks (!!?) Hungarians without accepting 
responses from them. I wouldn't use even this term "atack". It should be 
a civilized, sometimes colourful, conversation with our fellow 
Hungarians. We don't share the same view most of the time but that 
doesn't necessarily mean that we shouldn't talk. Your point is that many 
of Romanians on this group, many but not all (sometimes including 
myself), do not have an access at this time to documents that help to 
lead a more scientific dialogue with you or your fellows. I hope that 
it'll come the moment when we have this opportunity. Not denying and 
hating each other's point of view but trying to understand each other's 
position and talk, talk, talk is the best way to avoid a dead end.

In any kind of discussions, including the political ones, moderation is 
the best friend. It is the line that should lead our positions.Non 
moderation could mean hatred and, sorry, you will not follow the Latin 
dictum: "Aurea mediocritas".

Even if you do not reply to my point of view, I hope that you'll 
understand it.

Silviu

Following is a Call for Action against reported brutality of an armed Commando
of 25 (plus 4 armed police) on an unarmed and peaceful gathering in a public
place of 9 Hungarian high-school students (3 girls) on Feb.6 in Salgotarjan.
Complaints against "Cserhat" Commando are (1) denying students their right of
peaceful gathering, (2) search without  due warrant, (3) brutal physical and
psychological terror and abuse, (4) blackmail and (5) verbal abuse (threat of
denying students of higher education)  and (6) false imprisonment. Additional
complaint is (7) misinformation of the public of the said Commando abuse.

Immediate investigation and punishment of offenders is demanded in order to
restore fundamental human rights in a country to be known "postcommunist".

Dr. Andras J. Pellionisz, citizen of Hungary and the United States of America

copies sent to:         Amnesty International
                                Freedom House, Washington, D.C.
                                Gyula Horn, Prime Minister of Republic of
Hungary
                                        
after a 14-day period of waiting, full report on demand & results will be wired
:
                                104 USA Newspapers



MAGYAR LOBBY - HUNGARIAN LOBBY

** Kommandoalakulat brutalitasa 6 magyar diakfiu es 3 diaklany ellen **

[Szokastol elteroen most egy M.o.-i kisebbseg, kilenc nemzeti erzesu
magyar kozepiskolas ellen elkovetett atrocitasok elleni tiltakozasra kerjuk
kedves olvasoinkat. Kerjuk, irjanak, faxozzanak tiltakozo leveleket
ha az olvasottak lattan ugy velik, vedelmukbe kell venniuk vereinket!]

Kommandosok salgotarjani MIEP-es diakok ellen
"AKARTOK TOVABB TANULNI?"
(Magyar Forum, 1996. februar 22.)

Februar 7-en 20 ora 15 perckor a salgotarjani Rozsika kocsmaba berontott 25
fegyveres kommandos es negy egyenruhas rendor. Minden szerdan itt tartanak
megbeszelest a MIEP Ifjusagi Tagozatanak tagjai es szimpatizansai, ezen a
napon is igy tortent. Az asztaloknal kilenc kozepiskolas beszelgetett,
vallotta egy szemtanu.

A szoban forgo kocsma berloje, DUDAS LASZLONE a MIEP Nograd megyei
szervezetenek elnoke. A kocsmaban minden szerdan razzia van.

Februar 7-en a nagy robajjal erkezo kommandosok (a Cserhat-csoport)
falhoz parancsoltak a "kopaszokat", koztuk a korzet postasat is, aki
balszerencsejere elozo nap nyiratkozott. Felszolitottak a falhoz allitott
kilenc kozepiskolas gyereket, koztuk harom diaklanyt, hogy uritsek ki a
zsebeiket es a taskaikat. A kommandosok fegyvert kerestek naluk, de nem
talaltak. Egy elkobzott bezbol-utovel vegigvertek az egyik diakon, a
masiknak a kezet utottek. A tettlegesseg elott az egyenruhas rendorok
kivonultak a kocsmabol. Amikor Dudas Laszlone, a kocsma berloje arra
kerte a kommandosokat, hogy ne bantsak a gyerekeket, ez volt a valasz:
"A nagypofaju not is bevisszuk".

A korulbelul 30 perces akcio utan kocsiba zsufoltak a harom diaklanyt
es a hat fiut, majd eloallitottak oket a salgotarjani Varosi
Rendorkapitanysagon. A kocsiban a rendorok azzal fenyegetoztek, hogy a
kapitanysagon megverik oket, ha nem valljak be, milyen szervezetnek a tagjai.

A gyerekek a MIEP tajekoztatojan a sajto nyilvanossaga elott szamoltak
be a tortentekrol. A kihallgatasok elott a fogdabol nem engedtek ki oket a
mellekhelyisegbe. Nem telefonalhattak a szuleiknek. Az egyik gimnazista --
feltunoen szep lany -- a fogdaban arra kerte a rendoroket, eloszor ot
hallgassak ki, hogy meg elerje az utolso autobuszt. Csak az utolso busz
indulasa utan kerult sorra.

Ejjel fel kettoig tartott a kihallgatas. A salgotarjani Varosi Rendor-
kapitanysag ugyeletes tisztje BOKA GYULA szazados volt. A kihallgato
rendorok azzal kezdtek a faggatozast, hogy akarnak-e a gyerekek tovabb
tanulni. Tehat zsaroltak, az ugyhoz nem tartozo dolgokrol faggatoztak.
Ekozben Dudas Laszlone folyamatosan erdeklodott telefonon, mi van a
diakokkal, mert haza kell menniok. Fogdai letartoztatasukat a rendorok
telefonon letagadtak, majd egy kazari illetosegu rendor kozbenjarasara
ejszaka fel ketto utan a gyerekeket egyenkent szabadon engedtek.
Celzatosan feltett kerdeseik utan alairattak veluk a jegyzokonyvet.

Dudas Laszlone keso ejszaka ferjevel es fiaval gepkocsiba ult, hogy a
rendorsegre menjen. Utkozben tankolniuk kellett. A benzintolto allomas
elott elejuk vagodott es utanuk zart egy-egy rendorsegi kocsi. A rendorok
azt firtattak, miert jarnak ejszaka tankolni.

Ez tortent Salgotarjanban, az 1996. februar 7-erol 8-ara virrado ejszakan.
Kommandosakciot hajtottak vegre gyerekek, a MIEP Ifjusagi Tagozata
ellen. Az indok az volt, hogy "egy cigany bejelentette, meg akarjak ot
tamadni". Masnap a sajtojelentesekben ez az indok mar "allampolgari
bejelentesse" szelidult. A bejelentes tartalmarol a rendorok nem voltak
hajlandok bovebben nyilatkozni. A NOGRADI KRONIKA februar 9-en
megirta a tortenetet, korrekten szamolt be az esetrol.

Februar 10-i cimoldalan -- feltehetoen rendorsegi nyomasra -- mar
homlokegyenest mast irt. Igyekezett tisztara mosni a brutalis
kommandosakciot. Ezt a tudositast vettek at az orszagos napilapok.
Igy terjedt hire, hogy ciganyokat vertek a magyarok.

Az ujsagok a MIEP-rol es a diakokrol mar szot sem ejtettek.
Gy. B.

[Amikor Demszky egy pofont kapott a rendorsegtol szamizdat
terjesztese miatt, feje tetejere allt a vilag a tiltakozohullamtol - majd
polgarmestert csinaltak belole. Amikor a mi gyerekeinket verik es
tovabbtanulasukra hivatkozva terrorizaljak a kommandosok,
tiltakozhatunk:

Levelben:
Rendorkapitanysag
Salgotarjan
Hungary 3100

Magyar Forum Szerkesztosege
Budapest, Pf. 1591
Hungary 1464

Faxon/Telefonon
Magyar Forum Szerkesztosege
Tel/fax: 36-1-215-8795

E-mailben:

[az e-maileket a Nemzet szerkesztoseg tovabbitja]

Apai nagyapam munkaszolgalatos volt a masodik
vilaghaboruban. Amikor hazakerult a csaladja alig ismerte
meg. Kozepkoru eleteros emberkent ment el - es egy aggastyan
eleterejevel es kulsejevel tert vissza. Sokszor csak egy
hajszal valasztotta el a halataboroktol es a dunaparti
tomeggyilkossagoktol. Elmehetett volna, de ragaszkodott a
hazajahoz. A haboru utan nem lepett be a partba, az otvenes 
evekben is karakanul
viselkedett. Korhazigazgatonak szerettek volna tenni
tudasanal es az ot ovezo tiszteletnel fogva. Csak annyit
kertek formailag lepjen be a partba. Nem tette. Megmaradt
"csak" orvosnak. Aztan jott 56. Elmehetett volna. Hivtak. 
Gondoskodtak volna rola es orvoskent is mukodhetett volna. 
Nem ment, mert ragaszkodott hazajahoz. Magyar ember volt.

Anyai nagyapam - ugyancsak munkaszolgalatos volt tobbszor
is. Az Orosz fronton isteni szerencsevel elte tul a Don kanyart.
Amikor hazakerult ugyancsak eletveszelyben volt. A haboru
csaladjat kitelepitettek - az ismert korulmenyek kozott az
ismert modszerekkel. Hetente kellett a rendorsegre mennie
mert osztalyidegen volt es felforgato. Tobbszor elfogtak
(nem volt "ellenzeki" csak karakanul becsuletesen
viselkedett). Tobbszor bevittek ok nelkul. Fenyegettek,
csaladjat zaklattak. Lehetetlenne tettek munkahelyen (azt
hiszem bantalmaztak is) Felesege csaladja
mar Amerikaban volt, es jomodban eltek. Hivtak oket hogy
menjenek ki. Maradt. Ragaszkodott a hazajahoz. Gyulolte a
kommunizmust es a kommunistakat - zsidok vagy nem zsidok.
Zsido ember volt, tartotta a Zsido hagyomanyokat is. Magyar ember
is volt. Az igazsaghoz tartozik hogy 56-ban vegul is
elhagytak az orszagot - nagyanyam kivansagara, es nagyapam
akarata ellenere.

Ket ember akik becsuletesek maradtak, akik Magyarorszagon
husz evig csak megalaztatasban reszesultek, sot
eletveszelyben voltak a naciktol, majd a kommunistaktol, meg
is huek maradtak hazajukhoz Magyarorszaghoz! 

Milyen erkolcsi vagy politikai joga van akkor onnek Toth
Judit megkerdojelezni ezen emberek identitasat,
patriotizmusat, hazaszeretetet, amiert ennyi
aldozatot hoztak es amihez megis huek maradtak? Ki on, mit
tett on ami feljogositja hogy itelkezzen felettuk, hogy
ketsegbe vonja azt amit eletukkel tanusitottak - amiert
emberfeletti aldozatokat hoztak, amihez huek maradtak - hogy
Magyarok voltak es Magyarok maradtak tobb evtizedes
eletveszely, megalaztatas ellnere.

Istvan

In article >, Karoly Huszar
> wrote:

> A kovetkezok a TALMUD-ban talalhatok; forditasat ratok bizom, nem akarok 
> a hitelessegen rontani.  Helyesbitest, pontositast, magyarazatot barki 
> irhat.  Tovabbiakat talalhattok  
> http://www3.stormfront.org/jewish/talmud.html


ja. csak ez a kedves hulye elfelejtette megemliteni hogy a stormfront egy
neo-nazi organizacio. es tele van a site mindenfele fajgyuloletes
marhasaggal.

gyonyoru. es a toth judit(?) is gyonyoru. sot, meg a pannon is gyonyoru.

de azert erdekes hogy ezek a mocskok ide a net-re telepednek, es innen
fullyak tovabb.


ef

-- 
NWHQ
http://www.knosso.com/NWHQ/

 (Laszlo Katkits) wrote:


>Joe Pannonnak:

>  Egyszeruen fogtam magam es kicsereltem egy szovegszerkesztovel, meg
>nemileg kezzel a "zsido"-t MAGYAR-ra a szovegedben. Erdekes lett az
>eredmeny:

>------------ ooooooooooo --------------

>Szerintem ez nem altalanos.  Kulonosen nem a zsido MAGYARok (vagy MAGYAR
>zsidok vagy hogyan helyes ez?) eseteben, akik tobbsege szamara a MAGYARsag
>a masodlagos, hacsak nem emlekeztetik oket erre tul sokat. :-(
>Viszont szerintem is van a MAGYARsagon belul egy agressziv kisebbbseg
>akik valosaggal kisajatitottak maguknak a szoszoloi szerepet a MAGYARok
>neveben.  Fuggetlenul attol, hogy vallasosak-e vagy nem.  Azt hiszem az
>a problema, hogy erre a kisebbsegre nincs egy jo elkulonito nev, mint
>pl. a "Cosa Nostra" az olaszokon belul.  Akkor azokat lehetne kritizalni
>anelkul, hogy az egesz MAGYARsag azt magara venne.  Tudtommal a legtobb
>olasz sem veszi magara azt, ha a Cosa Nostrat (vagy a Maffiat) szidja
>valaki, ha bar mindenki tudja, hogy ezen szervezetek tagsaga szin olasz.
>(Persze ma a Maffia szo jelentese elegge generikus lett, s ezert
>hasznalom inkabb a Cosa Nostrat.)  Szinte biztos vagyok, hogy a legtobb
>MAGYARt ert kritika nem a MAGYARsag egeszet celozta meg, hanem annak egy
>eroszakos kisebbseget.  Ezt nem is tudom maskepp elkepzelni, hiszen
>mindnyajan sokkal tobb tisztesseges MAGYARt ismerunk, mint gazembert.
>Persze sokkal jobb lenne, ha nem a zsidok kritizalnak azt az
>agressziv MAGYAR kisebbseget, hanem maga a MAGYAR tobbseg.  Ha meg nem
>teszik, akkor ne csodalkozzanak azon, ha azt masok teszik meg helyettuk.
>Az aztan egyaltalan nem segiti az ugyuket, ha a nem-szemelyeskedo
>kritizalot ocsmany szemelyeskedessel, kigyot-bekat kialtva a fejere
>akarjak elhallgattatni.

>------------ ooooooooooo --------------

>Van azert itt ket dolog:

>1. Amint a zsidok kiirtottak 7 millio nemzsidot, azoknak nemzsidosaga
>miatt, maris kvittek vagyunk, attol kezdve minden osszehasonlithato
>lesz. De barmennyire is igazsagosnak is tartanam ezt a fejlemenyt,
>meg a gondolatatol is borzadok, es nem hiszem hogy volna olyan epeszu
>zsido, vagy nemzsido, akinek ez a torlesztes celja, vagy vagya lenne.
>De annyit mindenesetre megkovetelhet minden zsido a legyilkolt
>7 millio neveben, hogy senki se gyalazza emlekuket, senki se hasonlitsa
>nepenek sanyaru sorsat a zsidok szenvedeseihez. Soha meg semmilyen nepet
>nem uldoztek ilyen sokaig, soha semmilyen nepet nem irtottak meg igy.
>Es ha lehetne valami haszna a 7 millio halalanak, akkor az lehetne,
>hogy soha semmilyen nepnek ne is kelljen ilyen borzalom toredeket sem
>elszenvednie.

>2. "Egy agressziv kis csoport". Amint valaki a zsidokat vedi,
>mindjart agresszivnek belyegzik. Egy zsido ugyanis kusshadjon, es
>oruljon ha nem vertek meg agyon. Hat ez ma mar nem all meg, a
>zsidok nem fognak bekesen a vagohidra menni, hiaba koveteli
>Toth Judit a gazkamrak ujra uzembehelyezeset.

>Ket szemlyes megjegyzes J. P.-nek:

>1. A fentebbi "gyalazas" ezalkalommal nem neked szolt.
>2. A szemelyeskedesrol: termeszetesen most sem ertek egyet a
>szemelyeskedessel, meg Toth Judittal szemben sem, de nagyon meglepodtem,
>hogy TE emelsz kifogast! Egyebirant ha Toth Juditot nevezed 
>"nem-szemelyeskedo kritizalo"-nak akkor legyszives olvasd mar el
>leveleit megegyszer ! Es elarulom, nekem is lenne kedvem nehany
>szemelyeskedo jelzore a tudos holggyel kapcsolatban, mert ilyen
>hajmereszto hazudozot es nyilt fajuldozot nem lattam meg itt ezeken
>a lapokon, sot azt hiszem Goebbels ota kevesen vetettek papirra ilyet.

>//Laszlo
==================
VALASZ KATKITS LASZLONAK es elvtarsainak!

Elvtarsak, minek a szemlyeskedo  jelzo? Muvelt es civilizalt  emberek
eszmecseret szoktak folytatni, nem pedig cimkezni es szemelyeskedni!
De mivel  cafolni nem tudnak,  akkor szemelyeskednek? Csak eddig
tartott a muveltseguk es a  tudomanyuk?
Masfelol, ha valaki valakit idez, akkor legyen benne legalabb annyi
tisztesseg, hogy az idezet ne legyen hamishirterjesztes, - magyarul
HAZUGSAG - mert ez meg a torveny elott sem allja meg a helyet! -- On a
szokott modon  ragalmaz es  ezt irja: (...) <hiaba koveteli Toth Judit
a gazkamrak ujra uzembehelyezeset.>(...) ????????

Meg az a szerencse, hogy az INTERNET olvasoi  tanuk  arra, hogy EN
EZT SOHA NEM IRTAM LE SEHOVA! Persze ha egyeseknek meglehetosen
gyengus az allaspontja, akkor ez a legjobb tamadas! Ezt onok   
Magyarorszagon mar 50 ev ota gyakoroljak, ugyhogy nagyon ismeros a
modszer! 
=== 
KATKITS: <Es elarulom, nekem is lenne kedvem nehany
>szemelyeskedo jelzore a tudos holggyel kapcsolatban, mert ilyen
>hajmereszto hazudozot (?) es nyilt fajuldozot (?) nem lattam meg itt ezeken
>a lapokon, sot azt hiszem Goebbels ota kevesen vetettek papirra ilyet.>
===
Akkor mar eppe ideje, hogy ezek az oldalak felfrissuljenek. Nem is
orulnek neki, hogy kiraztam magukat a kulturalis tespedesbol? -- Ha
van hozza tudasuk es eleg tajekozottsaguk akkor CAFOLJAK  MEG MINDAZT,
AMIT IRTAM, mert maskeppen elvtarsaim onok - a muveltseg teren -  igen
rossz szinben allnak az Ur szine elott!

"Istenem szabaditsd meg Magyarorszagot ezektol a gonosztevoktol!"

[Judit, de nem az oszovetsegi!]

In article >,
    (Judith Toth) wrote:

>Az alabbi megdobbento hirt a NEMZET-bol tovabbitjuk az olvasoknak:
[az egesz szar kivagva]

A fene egye mar meg! Miert nem lehet elkerulni a NEMZET postazasat 
egyfolytaban mindig? Mar a csapbol is ez az izlestelen szar jon!
Tessek mar vegre megerteni, hogy aki akarja majd elolvassa ott!
(Na mar megint elvesztettem a turelmemet egy ilyen hulyeseg miatt...)



--------------------------------------
Peter Szaszvari
http://iap11.ethz.ch/users/szp/szp.htm
--------------------------------------

In article >,
Judith Toth > wrote:
| MI TESZ VALAKIT MAGYARRA? 

| =======================
| FOLYTASD,  HA AKAROD!
| ======================= 
| 1.  A haza renduletlen es onzetlen szeretete.
| 2.  Magyar anyanyelvunk apolasa.
| 3.  Hazank es nepunk erddekeinek oszinte kepviselete.
| 4.  Az IGAZI magyar tortenelem ismeerete.
| 5.  Oseink tisztelete, hoseink es martirjaink tisztelete.
| 6.  Hagyomanyaink megorzese es atadasa az utokor reszere.
| 7.  Az idegenbe vetett magyar testvereinkrol valo gondoskodas
| 8.  Megcafolni a tortenelemhamisitok hazugsagait.
| 9.  Az idegen nepek iranti tisztelet, de ugyanakkor toluk is mindenkor
| elvarni es kovetelni a magyar nep iranti tiszteletet!
| 10.  A hazaert meghalni lehet, de elfaradni soha!

Meg ket kerdes... Toth Judit szerint van egy igazi meg egy (tobbb)
nem igazi magyar tortenelem. Ugyan torteneszek rengeteg
tenyen vitatkoznak, sok kerdessel kapcsolatban nem all
rendelkezesre eleg inf  ormacio, de o csalhatatlanul tudja
hogy mi igaz  es mi nem. Tovabba aki a Toth Judit szerinti
tortenelem szemlelettel nem ert egyet, esetleg bizonyitekok
hianyaban mas kovetkeztetesre jut mint o, az nem csak teved
- de mar Magyar sem lehet. Ezek szerint tehat gyakorlatilag
abban a pillanatban amikor valakinek megvaltozik egy
tortenelmi kerdesrol a velemenye es horribile dictu
megszunik egyeterteni Toth Juittal megszunik Magyarnak
lenni.

Gratulalok!

Cluster User > wrote:




>    Dear T.Kocsis,


>    First of all, "our topic" was not Transylvania. It was the problem 
>of the continuity of the Daco-Romanian People.

A joke posted by Adrian Precup-Pop on <romanians>: 

Night time in Cluj. Janos and Pista are coming out of a tavern. A
Romanian gentleman, in an obvious rush, approaches them:
"Could you, please, tell me where the railroad station is?"
"We don't know!", replies Janos
The gentleman runs away, totally lost.
"Janos, asks Pista, why didn't you tell him where the railroad station
was? Poor man is gonna miss the train now!"
"Screw him, replies Janos, he says he's been here 2000 years, and he
doesn't know where the railroad station is?!" 

Time to lighten up, brethren!

Dorin Taranul

In article > Cluster User,  writes:
Dear Valerius,

>    First of all, "our topic" was not Transylvania. It was the problem
>of the continuity of the Daco-Romanian People.

Please check the title of this thread. It says: "The Hungarians in Tran-
sylvania".

Also check Christian Alb's opinion which made me jump on the band-
wagon again:
:   Please refer to the chronicles of Anonymus and Nestor who mention
:   the fact that hungarians found a latin speaking population when
:   they arrived in Transylvania.

I have some further words on the Daco-Romanian Theory:

We (Hungarians in scm & scr) never really discussed it and we don't
have objections against if you think that the Romanians are aches-
tors of the Thracian because (I think) it is mostly a linguistic
question.

These are however the points we used to dispute:

- - we don't think that the habitants of Dacia, the Roman province, were
romanized Thracians. Apparently there were some amongst them but the
majority were settlers from other parts of the Empire.

- - we don't think that considerable Roman population was left behind
after the evaculation of Dacia Traiana by Aurelian. They would have
been eliminated anyway during those interesting years when several
agressively militant nomadic tourist groups pitched camp there.

- - Hence the Hungarians could not find Romanian Vlachs in the Car-
pathian basin when they arrived here.

As you see above, our attention is concetrated only on Transilvania.

>    Secondly, If you confond the Thessalonikos with the Romanian
>spaces(including Transylvania), please, take, not only history lessons
>(generously offered by the ancient postings, but, unfortunately ignored
>by the chemistry engeneers...) but, geographic lessons as well.

I am afraid, here *you* have to prove that such geographical entity is
ever existed in such extent.

>    Thirdly, all material which I indicated you to read, refers to
>Romanian Vlachs. If you had not the necessary time to read it, normally,
>from a moral point of view, it had to renonce to put on scr., at least,
>so precarious knowledges.

Your almost exclusively Greek sources suggests that the Vlakhs were only
known by Greeks thus they lived in Greece or in the very near neighbour-
hood but they were not numerous and significant enough to be observed by
distant observers. Your Armenian refenrence so must be a result of Greek 
intermediation.
You did not give reference to the Norman text at all so I have to neglect
it, but I'm going to look into those Niebelung Songs . Stay tuned !

>    Finally, my intervention on this "dilemma" of the Daco-Romanian
>people continuity is not a "fresh flesh" one, not at all;

Sorry if i am mistaken and you took part in the discussions earlier.
I regret to say, I do not remember you.

>you, and your
>conationals had ignored the really scientific arguments exposed on this
>scr. newsgroup and you had prefered to discuss the "Byzantine" questions
>ones.

That's not true. I never ignore "really scientific arguments" but they
have to be as grounded as I got used to it on other fields of science
I deal with.

>I regret this lack of honesty in your behavior but I hope,
>finally, you will renonce to arogance in the favor of an European
>dignity.

I am sorry that you misunderstood my intent. It must happened because
of my far from perfect English. I take pleasure in this discussion and
I don't feel that I should be rigidly dry and scolar. We are neighbours
anyway.

Your (and others) faint hints on that the Hungarians are not of Europian
origin is aimless because we are proud of that. You might know that
Hungarians were shocked and outraged when their Turk/Asian origin
was questioned by the Finno-Ugric linguistic theory which is still
refused by lot of Hungarians.
(for reference you may chechk: http://exo.com/%7Efredh/honf.htm)

Tamas0x$B<r(I+(J

In article >,  wrote:
>Following is a Call for Action against reported brutality of an armed 
Commando
>of 25 (plus 4 armed police) on an unarmed and peaceful gathering in a public
>place of 9 Hungarian high-school students (3 girls) on Feb.6 in Salgotarjan.
>Complaints against "Cserhat" Commando are (1) denying students their right of
>peaceful gathering, (2) search without  due warrant, (3) brutal physical and
>psychological terror and abuse, (4) blackmail and (5) verbal abuse (threat of
>denying students of higher education)  and (6) false imprisonment. Additional
>complaint is (7) misinformation of the public of the said Commando abuse.
>
>Immediate investigation and punishment of offenders is demanded in order to
>restore fundamental human rights in a country to be known "postcommunist".
>
>Dr. Andras J. Pellionisz, citizen of Hungary and the United States of America
>
>copies sent to:         Amnesty International
>                                Freedom House, Washington, D.C.
>                                Gyula Horn, Prime Minister of Republic of
>Hungary

First of all I'd like to congratulate A.J.P. for being objective and unbiased. 
 :) I’d like to congratulate him too for writing under his own name (this 
effort cannot be overestimated).

Some comments: According to the article the students were "kopaszok" what 
means skinheads. They were unarmed and they were beaten by the police with a 
baseball rocket taken from *them*. :)
Skinheads used to beat gypsies in Hungary without reason.

Be careful with maniacs!



--------------------------------------
Peter Szaszvari
http://iap11.ethz.ch/users/szp/szp.htm
--------------------------------------

In article > Liviu Iordache, .
edu writes:
>In article >, T. Kocsis
> says:

>>Spaniards, the Italians, the Romans, the Germans, the French,
>>the Venetians, the Genoese, and so on. Their homes
>>are situated in the northwest,..."

>Attempting to locate the Franks, someone that reads
>the list of people you have so kindly produced
>faces three obvious choices: the Romans, the
>Germans, and the French. I see no reason for the
>unsubstantiated assumption that Nestor hid the
>Franks under the name of the Vlakhs.

There are other confucionistic things:

- Why did this guy  mention Italians as separate nation ?
- What did he mean under Romans ? He might mean the Roman
Empire, or its descendant state. But they also can  be the habi-
tants of Roma as he listed also the Genoese and the Venetians
as well.. so I really don't know.
I still would like to see the original Old Salvic version.

>I've seen the highly debated paragraphs quoted
>directly in Russian from the 1926(?) edition that was
>translated by Cross. I don't have them
>handy right now, but I'll get back to you on this one.

I hope it will solve some of the mistery.

>, advised by the #1 analyst of
>Nestor's chronicle, as I already mentioned, the
>translator of "The Nikonian Chronicle" did not
>think that "volokhs" meant the Franks.

I smell here the faint scent of panslavism. You may find
similar interpretation in the Notes to the Nestor's 
cronicle.  The lines "the Vlakhs settled among the Danubian
Slavs and did them violence," is interpreted there that those Vlakhs
are actually Romans from Italy and it happened as early as in the
first or second century.  This interpretation  pushes back the Slav
presence by at least 4-500 years almost till Christ, and nicely
messes up Valerius Ciuca's Daco-roman theory so I leave its
laceration to him... ;-) 

>Referring to the Nestor's testimony that "...the
>Vlakhs settled among the Danubian Slavs and did
>them violence," you had mentioned:

>>>>The description of invasion
>>>>coincides with the Frankish occupation described
>>>>in the Royal Frankish Chronicle.

>Well, I insist in asking for a quote referring to
>the Franks settling among the Danubian Slavs.

I'll try my best on this Avar issue. But I durstn't to swear on that
the quotes will be from the RFC.

I did my homework on the similarities between the works of Nestor
and Magister P.  Since Nestor's cronicle doesn't mention Hungarians
too many times and the later references are irrelevant anyway, it was
not that difficult.

Nestor:
"The Magyars passed by Kiev..." (It mentioned two times)

Anonymous:
"magyari.. transeuntes...ciuitatem Kyo nominatam" - passed through
by a town called Kiev.

Well, it is not too much. It seems that Anonymous did not bother
to read contemporary sources. He even did not mentions the Hun-
garian raids to Bulgaria which is mentioned two times by Nestor.

Tamas

gfaktora$B(J:

In article > Peter Szaszvari,  wr
ites:
>Nekem mar csak egy kerdesem van: Tekintheto-e "Magyarnak" Judith Toth?

Jogos a k$B;S(Jd$B;T(J !

Elfogadhassuk-e mi fajmagyarok esztet a nyilvanval$BMB(Jn tot
szarmazasu nyiregyhazi (tirpak) holgyet igazi magyarnak ?

Hat persze, hogy nem !

Mitol is lenne o magyarabb, mint barmely itten mindent osszefirkallo
zsido, nemet vagy liberalbolsevik goreny ?

Nem-e pont egy Meciarnak dolgozo szlovak provokatorral allunk-e
itten szembe mi ??

Magyarnak korso, nemetnek borso, totnak koporso ! ! !

Kocsis
(igazi fajmagyar)$B_Q(JL(I5$B˜*6(I0+(J

84 m2, 2-bedroom condo overlooking the Buda Hills in a beautiful, 
small apartment house of Budapest'’s exclusive Rozsadomb disrict
(Nagybanyai Street) is for immediate sale. It features telephone, 
garage, hardwood floor and gas central heating. Easy access to the
city: downtown is just a short, convenient 15-minute ride by public 
transportation. If you are interested, please send an E-mail to 
.


-- 
/-------------------------Feri Zsuppa'n Ph.D.--------------------------------\
| Offc. of the Dean in Arts and Sciences  Email:       |
|      and Department of Economics                       |
| POB 90097,Duke Univ.,Durham,NC 27710    Voice:919/660-1844,Fx:919/684-8974 |

Szucs Istvan -vajon miert ?- provokaciokent szemelyesen kerdez engem,
vajon hazaarulas-e, hogy az Amnesty International-t felkertem a vizsgalat
ellenorzesere, hogy a tettlegesen -es jogos ok nelkul- magyar kozepiskolas
diakfiukat es diaklanyokat brutalizalo Cserhat Kommando elnyeri-e melto
bunteteset, vagy nemzetkozileg dokumentaltta valik, hogy a magyar nemzet
es a liberalbolsevizmus konfrontaciojaban ok valasztottak megengedheto-
nek az eroszakos megoldast. A kerdes azert nyilvanvalo provokacio, mert
Szucs Istvan is irja "elitelem az akciot, es szivesen alairok barmilyen nyilat-
kozatot, interpellaciot ami az esetre vonatkozik", tehat Szucs es en AZONOS
allasponton vagyunk, hogy az eroszak alkalmazasa megengedhetetlen es
igy AZ A HAZAARULAS, HA VALAKI   *N*E*M*   LEP FEL A
HAZANKBAN FEJET ISMET FELUTOTT NYILT EROSZAK
REMURALMA ELLEN.

Ugyanakkor -legalabbis szerintem- kimeletlenul fel kell lepnunk az olyan
avosgyerekszeruen pimasz es tortenelmileg felelotlen provokatorok ellen is,
mint Szucs Istvan, akik a Salgotarjani EROSZAKOT egyenlosegbe (vagy akar
csak parhuzamba) allitjak ket liberalbolsevik remuralom (1990 elotti es 94
utani) korszaka kozott altaluk ideiglenesen elturt demokracia-kiserlettel,
amikor
is a 90-94 idoszak alatt SEMMIFELE EROSZAK ALKALMAZASARA, meg
egy sokszorosan tulerdemelt pofon kiosztasara sem kerult sor - marmint a
Szatmari nevu hivatasos hirszerzo szerint SZDSZ/Peto altal szervezett es
vegrehajtott taxiblokadon KIVUL. (Allasok betoltese NEM eroszak, ezt a
meglehetosen alapveto tenyt talan meg egy Szucs Istvan is tudhatna, de
lathatjuk hogy nem tudja.)

Megitelesem szerint tortenelmileg bizonyitott, hogy a magyar nemzet 1956
oktoberi, Vilag altal nem csak jovahagyott, de dicsosegeskent elkonyvelt,
kozvetlen es eroszakos hatalomgyakorlasa ota, tehat majdnem negyven
esztendeje egyetlenegy esetben SEM nyult a jogos onvedelem vegso
(eroszakos) fegyverehez. Ugyanakkor a liberalbolsevizmus 1956 ota
SZUNTELENUL (tehat az 1956 utani Hajnaut lepipalo tomeggyilkossaggal,
a kadarkommunizmus szakadatlanul pofozkodo rendorbrutalitasaval, a
demokratikus kiserletet kerekbetoro taxiblokad eroszak-alkalmazasaval,
s most a fegyvertelenul es bekesen, bejegyzett es jovahagyott part politikai
gyuleset tarto kozepiskolas diakok elleni eroszak-alkalmazasaval) a liber-
bolsevizmus folyamatosan nemcsak a magyar nemzet, de a Vilag ertesere
adja, hogy minden politikai eszkozt felulbiralhatonak tart a BRUTALIS
EROSZAK KOZVETLEN HATALOMGYAKORLASA ALTAL.

Kozel negyven eves turelem es tures utan tehat 1996 marcius 14-et valoban
ultimatumkent foghatja fel a liberalbolsevista magyarorszagi kormany:
vagy a Vilag Nyilvanossaga elott LEMOND az eroszak jogrendet felulbiralo
eszkozenek alkalmazasarol, vagy LEMOND mint kormany, mert jogallam
fenntartasara nem kepes, vagy pedig szembekerul azzal a SAJAT MAGA
altal palackbol kieresztett szellemmel, amely a liberalbolsevizmust
1919, 1956 utan most 1996-ban harmadszor is, remelhetoleg
vegervenyesen, a tortenelem szemetdombjara sopri, es nem leszamol,
de elszamol az ocsmany hazaarulokkal.

 wrote:
>In article >, Karoly Huszar
> wrote:
>
>> A kovetkezok a TALMUD-ban talalhatok; forditasat ratok bizom, nem akarok 

>ja. csak ez a kedves hulye elfelejtette megemliteni hogy a stormfront egy
>neo-nazi organizacio. es tele van a site mindenfele fajgyuloletes
>marhasaggal.

Inkabb arrol irj hogy ezek tenyleg a TALMUD-ban vannak, vagy csak en 
talaltam ki oket.
Egyebkent megnyomtam a [net search] gombot, es tobbek kozott ezt kopte 
ki.  Lehet hogy a forras elitelheto, de itt csak az informacio fontos.
Egyebkent ki nem allhatom a neonacikat, szeparatistakat, es a zsido 
osszeeskuvesben hivoket.

Hello everyone -- 

I am looking for information on what may be a very obscure topic- heat 
therapy.  Specifically, I need info regarding traditional methods of applying 
heat to the body as a means of healing and/or pain dissipation.

I have found a reference in the English translation of Chinese Barefoot 
Doctors Manual regarding stir frying rice and vegetables and placing them in a 
cloth sack and then applying the sack to the body.  I need more references 
dealing with possibly heating grains (rice, oats, barley etc.) as a means of 
heat application.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!
Doug


Douglas J. Sorocco
Northwestern University, Evanston, IL.   USA

In article >,  > wrote:
| Szucs Istvan -vajon miert ?- provokaciokent szemelyesen kerdez engem,
| vajon hazaarulas-e, hogy az Amnesty International-t felkertem a vizsgalat
| ellenorzesere, hogy a tettlegesen -es jogos ok nelkul- magyar kozepiskolas
| diakfiukat es diaklanyokat brutalizalo Cserhat Kommando elnyeri-e melto
| bunteteset, vagy nemzetkozileg dokumentaltta valik, hogy a magyar nemzet
| es a liberalbolsevizmus konfrontaciojaban ok valasztottak megengedheto-
| nek az eroszakos megoldast.


Meg Szerencse hogy nem idezted amit irtam. Abbol ugyanis az
derul ki - hogy TE nevezted hazaarulasnak azt ha valaki
belso ugyeinket kulfoldon "teregeti" - kulfoldre fordul
segitseger, es EN tagadtam ezt a tezist.
Levelembol az is kiderul, hogy ha a Nemzetnek hinni lehet,
ez es igy tortent akkor en is tamogatom a kivizsgalast es a
jogtalansagot elkovetok megbunteteset. 

 A kerdes azert nyilvanvalo provokacio, mert
| Szucs Istvan is irja "elitelem az akciot, es szivesen alairok barmilyen nyila
t-
| kozatot, interpellaciot ami az esetre vonatkozik", tehat Szucs es en AZONOS
| allasponton vagyunk, hogy az eroszak alkalmazasa megengedhetetlen es
| igy AZ A HAZAARULAS, HA VALAKI   *N*E*M*   LEP FEL A
| HAZANKBAN FEJET ISMET FELUTOTT NYILT EROSZAK
| REMURALMA ELLEN.

Ld fent. Ebbol nem az derul ki hogy  a levelem provokacio -
ebbol az derul ki, hogy te vagy kovetkezetlen, egy olyan
sulyos kerdesben mint masok hazaarulassal valo megvadolasa. 

| Ugyanakkor -legalabbis szerintem- kimeletlenul fel kell lepnunk az olyan
| avosgyerekszeruen pimasz es tortenelmileg felelotlen provokatorok ellen is,
| mint Szucs Istvan, 

Ez viszont becsuletsertes. 
A te stilusodban tehat felelosegteljesen kijelentem hogy
EGYETLEN felmenom sem volt AVOs. Most te kovetkezel a
bocsanatkeressel! Amelyet el is varok. 


akik a Salgotarjani EROSZAKOT egyenlosegbe (vagy akar
| csak parhuzamba) allitjak ket liberalbolsevik remuralom (1990 elotti es 94
| utani) korszaka kozott altaluk ideiglenesen elturt demokracia-kiserlettel,
| amikor
| is a 90-94 idoszak alatt SEMMIFELE EROSZAK ALKALMAZASARA, meg
| egy sokszorosan tulerdemelt pofon kiosztasara sem kerult sor - marmint a
| Szatmari nevu hivatasos hirszerzo szerint SZDSZ/Peto altal szervezett es
| vegrehajtott taxiblokadon KIVUL. 

Megint nem errol volt szo. Az emlitett kerdesben megvan a
jogorvoslat belfoldi torvenyek altal biztositott
lehetosege. Megegyszer - nem itelem el a nemzetkozi
nyilvanossag es szervezetekhez valo fordulast, mint ahogy
akkor sem iteltem el amikor politikai tisztogatast rendeztek
a radioban es a tvben. 

| (Allasok betoltese NEM eroszak, ezt a
| meglehetosen alapveto tenyt talan meg egy Szucs Istvan is tudhatna, de
| lathatjuk hogy nem tudja.)

NEm mondtam hogy fizikai eroszak tortent. Azt igen ,hogy
olyan diktatorikus politikai tisztogatas amely
veszelyeztette a demokraciat Magyarorszagon -es amely
bevallottan partallami szellemu es szarmazasu torvenyekre
alapult amelyek minden demokratikus szabalyozas es jogelvnek ellenaltak.

| 
| Megitelesem szerint tortenelmileg bizonyitott, hogy a magyar nemzet 1956
| oktoberi, Vilag altal nem csak jovahagyott, de dicsosegeskent elkonyvelt,
| kozvetlen es eroszakos hatalomgyakorlasa ota, tehat majdnem negyven
| esztendeje egyetlenegy esetben SEM nyult a jogos onvedelem vegso
| (eroszakos) fegyverehez. Ugyanakkor a liberalbolsevizmus 1956 ota
| SZUNTELENUL (tehat az 1956 utani Hajnaut lepipalo tomeggyilkossaggal,
| a kadarkommunizmus szakadatlanul pofozkodo rendorbrutalitasaval, a
| demokratikus kiserletet kerekbetoro taxiblokad eroszak-alkalmazasaval,
| s most a fegyvertelenul es bekesen, bejegyzett es jovahagyott part politikai
| gyuleset tarto kozepiskolas diakok elleni eroszak-alkalmazasaval) a liber-
| bolsevizmus folyamatosan nemcsak a magyar nemzet, de a Vilag ertesere
| adja, hogy minden politikai eszkozt felulbiralhatonak tart a BRUTALIS
| EROSZAK KOZVETLEN HATALOMGYAKORLASA ALTAL.

Eloszor is liberalbolsevizmus nem letezik. Kadar rendszere
es a mai magyar liberalis partok kozott semmifele jogutodlas
lehetosege fel sem merul. Masodszor pedig semmifele brutalis
hatalomgyakorlasrol nincs szo. Ha egyaltalan - a vizsgalat
meg folyik - egy egyszeri rendori (?) tulkapasrol van szo. A
taxisblokad idejen pedig ugyancsak semmifele eroszak nem
tortent, sot, azzal valo fenyegetes HIRE is csak kormany
reszrol terjedt el.
 
| Kozel negyven eves turelem es tures utan tehat 1996 marcius 14-et valoban
| ultimatumkent foghatja fel a liberalbolsevista magyarorszagi kormany:
| vagy a Vilag Nyilvanossaga elott LEMOND az eroszak jogrendet felulbiralo
| eszkozenek alkalmazasarol, vagy LEMOND mint kormany, mert jogallam
| fenntartasara nem kepes, vagy pedig szembekerul azzal a SAJAT MAGA
| altal palackbol kieresztett szellemmel, amely a liberalbolsevizmust
| 1919, 1956 utan most 1996-ban harmadszor is, remelhetoleg
| vegervenyesen, a tortenelem szemetdombjara sopri, es nem leszamol,
| de elszamol az ocsmany hazaarulokkal.

A mai Magyar kormany (amely bizonyos intezkedesei ellen
neekem is kifogasom van) nemzetkozileg igazoltan (fuggetlen
polgarjogi szervezetek altal) NEM hasznal eroszakos
eszkozoket. Ma Magyarorszagon demokracia van. Egy
demokratikusan valasztott kormany gyakorolja a hatalmat egy
a demokraciat biztosito, az europai demokratikus jogelvekkel
osszhangban allo alkotmany alapjan, amelyben a torvenyhozas
egy demokratikusan valasztott parlament. Nem hiszem hogy
ecsetelnem kell hogy ez mennyiben ter el az 1919 es puccs
altal hatalomra kerult es nehany honapig eroszakos uton
uralmon maradt deklaraltan diktatorikus kommunista uralommal
szemben. 

Szucs Istvan

--

In article >, Cluster User  > wrote:
>
>    Please, also, remember that the Byzantines were the first to refer 
>to the Romanians Vlachs. 
>    Please, remember the late tenth century KEDRENOS mentions that the 
>Romanians Vlachs were "present in 976 in Greater Vlachia".

Yes, indeed.  And please remember, Tamas, that even Adam and Eve were
Romanians as the 10-volume scientific research by dr. Ilie Stanciu and
Tudor Diaconu proves conclusively.  Watch for the book sensation to come
out in Romania in the near future.

Joe

In article >,
Kim Niendorf  > wrote:
|  (Istvan Szucs) wrote:
| >
| > PLEASE remove inappropriate newsgroups from this thread.
| 
| But how do we know which are the innappropriate groups?
| 
| 
| Kim

I can answer this question in three ways. First of all almost
every group has a description that you see when you
originally post. Secondly there is a charter for the groups.
Now of course you are not expected to look these up - but
when you have a conversation going on that the audience of a
newsgroup doesn't even understand - that is good enough a
clue that it is inappropriate. Eg. If you are conversing in
Urdu- chances are that doesn't belong on soc.culture.magyar.

In response to T.Kocsis, Liviu Iordache > wrote:

>I've seen the highly debated paragraphs quoted
>directly in Russian from the 1926(?) edition that was
>translated by Cross. I don't have them
>handy right now, but I'll get back to you on
>this one.

The paper I was referring to is:

Dvoichenko-Markov, D., 1979, The Russian Primary Chronicle and the
Vlachs of Eastern Europe: Byzantion, 49, p.175-187.

P.176: "The original text of the Russian Primary Chronicle was
published in Russian [1950, Povest Vremennikh Let, Moscow-Leningrad)
by D.S. Likhacev and a group of well known Soviet Russian historians:

	>>[...]Afetovo bo i to koleno: varaiazi, cvei, urmane, gote, rus,

	agniane, galiceane, volhva, rimliane, nemtzi, korliazi, venditzi, 
	friagove i proci [...]<<

Let's contrast it against Cross&Sherbewitz-Wetzer's translation:

	>>"For the following nations also are a part of the
	>>race of Japheth: the Varangians, the Swedes, the
	>>Normans, the Gotlanders, the  Russes, the English, the
	>>Spaniards, the Italians, the Romans, the Germans, the French,
	>>the Venetians, the Genoese, and so on. 

it follows that:

Likhacev et al.:		Cross and Sherbewitz-Wetzer:	
	varaiazi------>the Varangians
	cvei----------->the Swedes
	urmane------>the Normans
	gote----------->the Gotlanders
	rus------------->the Russes
	agniane----->the English
	galiceane-->the Spanianrds
	volhva------->the Italians
	rimliane------>the Romans
	nemtzi-------->the Germans
	korliazi------->the French
	venditzi------>the Venetians
	friagove----->the Genoese

Therefore, the Franks can be any of the following: rimliane, nemtzi,
korliazi, or friagove, but I see no no reasons to assume that they are
the volhva.  


Regards, 

Liviu Iordache

In article >,
Karoly Huszar  > wrote:
| 
| Nem allitottam hogy ezek jogi alkalmazasban vannak.  Az eredeti kerdesben 
| tobbek kozt az allt, hogy mit is mond a TALMUD a keresztenyekrol.  
| Valoszinu hogy a forditasbol ferdites lett, de az en "egyik ismerosom"
| szerint, aki az eredeti (konyvtari) forditas reszeit is olvasta, eleg 
| gyalazatos dolgok is vannak benne.  Ketlem hogy az a peldany is 
| rosszindulatuan lenne leforditva. 

Nezd.. a forras joindulataval szemben vannak ketsegeim - de
tolem a joindulatu felreertesben is keegyezhetunk, hiszen
lenyegtelelen hogy miert forditottak rosszul

 Es megkerlek, adj mar egy pontos 
| referenciat (kiadas, oldal, paragrafus, stb.) ha tudsz, ami a 
| keresztenyek szeretetere szolitja fel a zsido hivoket.

Megegyszer mondom. A Talmud nem isteni ihletesu konyv, es
nem hitbeli kerdesekkel foglalkozik. TOrvenykonyv ami a 2000
evvel ezelotti "egyhazi"  igazsagszolgaltatasrol
szol. Megegyszer - azotobb mint ezer eves tarsadalmi
fejlodes utan - jottek keresztes haboruk, inkvicio,
isteniteletek, boszorkanyperek - sorljam?

Az Inkvizico peldaul arrol szolt hogy azok akik akar
"jottanyit" is mashogy "olvastak" a bibliat azokat a kor
egyhazi igazsagszolgaltatasa maglyara kuldte. A 2000 evvel
ezelott tortenelmi helyzetben pontosan ez volt a zsido es a
kereszteny vallas viszonya. Jezus az akkor helyzet szerint
fellazadt a sokezer eves hit ellen, es ezeket az akkori
fogalmak szerinti eretnek tanokat hirdette. HANGSULYOZOM -
hogy nehogy valaki felreertse - nem en - sot en nem tekintem
Jezust eretneknek - annak a kornak a Zsido
igazsagszolgaltatasa akik nem hittek az o messias voltat
tekintettek annak. Ami (nem veletlenul) veszesen hasonlit a
kesobbi inkvizicio eljarasara.


| Allaspontomat modositom:  Ha magyarhoz meltoan cselekedsz es akkent 
| erzel, magyar vagy (Lasd Toth Judit 10 pontjat).  De halal a ketszinu 
| "erdekmagyarokra".  

Az elso mondatnak orulok. A masodik ezzel uygan
ellentmondasban van. A harmadiktol pedig osszeborzadtam. Halal???

 wrote:

>In article >, Karoly Huszar
> wrote:

>> A kovetkezok a TALMUD-ban talalhatok; forditasat ratok bizom, nem akarok 
>> a hitelessegen rontani.  Helyesbitest, pontositast, magyarazatot barki 
>> irhat.  Tovabbiakat talalhattok  
>> http://www3.stormfront.org/jewish/talmud.html


>ja. csak ez a kedves hulye elfelejtette megemliteni hogy a stormfront egy
>neo-nazi organizacio. es tele van a site mindenfele fajgyuloletes
>marhasaggal.

>gyonyoru. es a toth judit(?) is gyonyoru. sot, meg a pannon is gyonyoru.

>de azert erdekes hogy ezek a mocskok ide a net-re telepednek, es innen
>fullyak tovabb.


>ef

>-- 
>NWHQ
>http://www.knosso.com/NWHQ/


FISCHER IRJA: <...de azert erdekes, hogy ezek a mocskok (???) ide a
net-re telepednek, es innen fullyak tovabb.> .......???
===
======= VALASZ  E.  FISCHER baratunknak !

Kedves Fischer ur! - Bizonyara tudja, hogy a  gyulolkodoest tiltja a
tprveny. Tessek mondani kik ezek a "MOCSKOK"? Utoljara Elie Wieseltol
hallottam ily meggondolatlan szavakat, amikor a nemetekrol irt a hires
konyveben, meg  Bronfmann urtol, aki "antiszemita kutyaknak" nevezte
az osztrakokat. 
 Mi lett a sokat hangoztatott toleranciaval, a demokraciaval,
egyenloseggel? Vagy ez csak akkor ervenyes, ha NEKUNK kell
turelmesnek, demokratikusnak lenni onok irant? Az egyenloseget meg
feleljtsuk el? Nem gondolja, hogy ebben az egyiranyu utcaban ebbol meg
forgalmi balhe lehet?
De talan on mar megunta jarni a damaszkuszi utat es megvasarolta az
INTERNET-et, gondolvan, hogy  a kepernyo mogott megiscsak
biztonsagosabb?

A kovetkezo musorszamaink:  az Oszovetseg es a Talmud gyongyszemei!
Mi nezunk elebe. Es on?...

Vegezetul engedjen meg egy kis helyreigazitast! A  magyar nyelvtanban
a "fullyak" szot  ugy szoktak irni, hogy "fujjak" S gondolom, ha en
heberul hibasan uzennek onnek valamit, akkor azt  on is kijavitana.
Shalom!...
Toth Judit

"A.L.Redey" > wrote:

>> MAGYAR  AZ....
>> < akinek fajnak Trianon igazsagtalansagai.
>> < akinek magyar szora, vagy zenere megdobban a szive
>> < akinek  1945. aprilis 4. gyasznapot jelent.
>> < akinek 1956. oktober 23. a magyar szabadsag szent unnepe
>...
>Ki szerint?

>Kaos
===============
VALASZ KAOSZ-nak "A.L.Redey" >:
Aszerint, aki a fenti negy pontot aterzi es jelent is valamit  a
lelkeben.Ha nem, akkor  ugy is jo!  [ Erdekes, hogy on eppen a  negy
legfontosabbat valasztotta ki, es azt hiszem, hogy ont ez a negy pont
borzasztoan idegesitiheti, akar bikat a vorosposzto.]  
Akinek a fenti  negy pont  nem jelent semmit, az bizonyara ahhoz a 17
ezer tagu diszes tarsasaghoz tartozik, (esetleg leszarmazottjaik?)
akik mar 1956 oktober 23-24-en olajraleptek es a Nyugat,  mint
"szegeny magyarorszagi menekuloket " fogadta a londoni
repuloteren....Tiszteletukre a kirendelt  zenekar  a magyar Himnuszt
jatszotta, de ok kezlegyintessel megallitottak, hogy nincs ra szukseg!
Egyetemi eveimben mondotta egy neves magyar professzor, hogy itt
kulfoldon tobb a kommunista, mint Magyarorszagon. Akkor nagyra nyiltak
a szemeim, de  szavait azota sem tudom feledni!... 
Es higyje el, hogy nagyon sokan vagyunk, .... akiknek jelent valamit a
fenti negy pont..... sokkal tobben mint gondona!
Szabadsag elvtars! - onok csak harcoljanak tovabb joegeszseggel a
szocializmusert!
Toth Judit

On 2 Mar 1996, Karoly Huszar wrote:
> Az eredeti kerdesben tobbek kozt az allt, hogy mit is mond a TALMUD a 
>keresztenyekrol.  
 A valaszban viszont az all, amit a nacik magyarazata mond a TALMUD-rol...

--
 Zoli , keeper of <http://hix.mit.edu/hungarian-faq/>;
# Wallace Sayre said, "Academic politics is the most vicious and bitter
# form of politics, because the stakes are so low."  He didn't know
# Usenet: welcome to the next level.           (Ron "Asbestos" Dippold)

For the non-natives Hungarians in this group who wish to learn
Hungarian, check out the online course at:

 http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~arubin/hungarian.html

*sneck*

(removed inappropriate newsgroups, left in soc.culture.british for reasons
of this reply, but redirected followups to soc.culture.magyar since we are
the victims of this neo-nazi invasion and have to deal with it.)

In article >, 
(Istvan Szucs) wrote:

> In article >,
> Judith Toth > wrote:
> | Kim Niendorf > wrote:

> |  (Istvan Szucs) wrote:
> | >> PLEASE remove inappropriate newsgroups from this thread.
> | Answer to Istvan Szucs, who is suggesting ethnic cleansing on the
> | INTERNET?!... 
> 
> What thhe hell are you talking about? Do you have ANY idea
> what thread I am responding to?! Dear Ms Editor, I am
> responding to a thread in a foreign language that has
> nothing to do with Hungary, or Hungarians. The post does not
> belong on this newsgroup - I have explained why - has
> nothing to do with ethnic cleansing or anything of the sort.
> 
> | What  is next Steve? The CIA? The FBI? The Interpol? The
> | Mossad?...
> 
> Again - what the HELL are you talking about? I have asked
> someone to remove this newsgroup from an inappropriate
> thread. I believe you do udnerstand why that is different
> then calling the CIA or the FBI or the Mossad or even the
> Skinheads.

> 
> When did I suggest that SOMEONE is not appropriate on the
> net?
> All I suggested was that eg. Dutch love letters are not
> appropriate on THIS NEWSGROUP .


istvan, and anyone else reading this post,

soc.culture magyar is under invasion from several neo-nazi threads... in
hungarian, since mr. milton klein (the notorious white-supremacist
scumbag, whose modus oprandi this sort of "invasion" is) sadly has some of
our country-folk among his adherents. so i suppose they thought it would
be a good idea.

more information regarding the neo-nazi net directives for newsgroup
invasions can be found on this website:

http://www.almanac.bc.ca/

what is happening in soc.culture.magyar is quite typical of other attempts
perpetrated by these people. this time the bullshit is in hungarian.
courtesy of one "judith toth" and a few other lesser luminaries.

one thing to remember that according to the directives, there will be
attempts to have the "discussion" (hah!) spread to other newsgroups. so do
chop headers at will, as this sort of thing can be stopped.

i know it is difficult not to reply to the threads as they are viscious
and vomit-inducing in the extreme. but if you do, you are playing into
their hands. for these flotsam of human garbage, the object of the
excercise is to keep the subject of the threads noticeable and spreading.

therefore the best strategy is to contain them. and to revise the subject
headings.

regards
ef

   (posted and e-mailed)

-- 
NWHQ
http://www.knosso.com/NWHQ/

Nem allitottam hogy ezek jogi alkalmazasban vannak.  Az eredeti kerdesben 
tobbek kozt az allt, hogy mit is mond a TALMUD a keresztenyekrol.  
Valoszinu hogy a forditasbol ferdites lett, de az en "egyik ismerosom"
szerint, aki az eredeti (konyvtari) forditas reszeit is olvasta, eleg 
gyalazatos dolgok is vannak benne.  Ketlem hogy az a peldany is 
rosszindulatuan lenne leforditva.  Es megkerlek, adj mar egy pontos 
referenciat (kiadas, oldal, paragrafus, stb.) ha tudsz, ami a 
keresztenyek szeretetere szolitja fel a zsido hivoket.

Allaspontomat modositom:  Ha magyarhoz meltoan cselekedsz es akkent 
erzel, magyar vagy (Lasd Toth Judit 10 pontjat).  De halal a ketszinu 
"erdekmagyarokra".

Ani oev otach (hebrew)

T. Publikum!

 Meg mielott a kis tarsasag megint haboruba kezdene javaslom, hogy olvassanak
bele egy John (??) Sack nevu zsido szarmazasu ur konyvebe. Be kell vallanom fer
-
fiasan: a konyvhoz magahoz nem tudtam hozzajutni. Viszont egy eleg kimerito ri-
portott lattam a szerzovel. 

 A konyv fo vonalat felvazolta; o arra a tortenelmi tenyre alapozta a mondoka-
jat, hogy a szovetsegesek a haboru utan tudatosan zsido szarmazasu embereket al
-
kalmaztak a kulombozo "igazolo" bizottsagok es hasonlok elere modvan a motiva-
cio adott ahhoz, hogy minel tobb bunos legyen elcsipve. A Szu. is lathatoan ki-
vette a reszet ebbol az akciobol. Talan Jaltaban lett ez is kisnoblizva, ki tud
-
ja. Tehat en megkockaztatnam ezen infok birtokaban a kijelentest, hogy itt egy 
kollektiva kvazi testuletileg allt  ezen tett melle. Az Andrassy uti "lanynevel
-
det" megjart emberek is elegge hasonlokat meselnek raadasul azok akik szamara
az ottani alkalmazottak  hovatartozas se pro se kontra nem volt meghatarozo.

 Tavol alljon tolem az, hogy ezen reakciot akarcsak ossze is akarjam a hitleri
szisztematikus emberirtassal merni de az egbekiallto disznosag nem attol az,
 hogy ki hany hullat gyartott. Az elszenvedet serelmeket mennyisegben merni egy
-
szeruen az elhunytak megcsufolasa.

 A konyvet meg nem merik az NSzK-ban kiadni.   

 Szerintem vegre a megbekeles lehetosegeit kene keresni es nem az osszeveszeset
.
Ez pedig nem ugy megy, hogy az egyik oldal minden vicik-vacak bajert a masik
csoport belieket teszi felelosse. A masik oldalnak pedeig lassan fel kene hagy-
nia az allando durcaskodassal es az unos-untalan a serelmeket es az allando 
elnyomast hangoztato magatartassal. Az elnyomas raadasul nem is igaz. Nem lehet
ugy beket kotni, hogy mindenki csak a sajat igazat es/vagy kulombozoseget ordit
-
ja. Ehhez mind a ket oldalnak aldoznia kell valamit.

 Mondom: MIND A KET OLDALNAK

Sarlos

Are the last lines Spanish or Esperanto?

In article >,
T. Kocsis  > wrote:
>Elfogadhassuk-e mi fajmagyarok esztet a nyilvanval$BMB(Jn tot
>szarmazasu nyiregyhazi (tirpak) holgyet igazi magyarnak ?
>
>Hat persze, hogy nem !

Ez megint csak erdekes kombinaciokat vet fel. Pl.:

Az igazi fajmagyar az kivel tarthat nemi kapcsolatot? Elvetendo pl. az orient
nokkel valo kapcsolat, vagy a latin nokkel valo kapcsolat (marmint a
heteroszexualis fajmagyar him reszerol)?

Ha igen, miert? Hisz' Arpadek allitolag Azsiabol jottek.

Ha nem, miert? Hisz' az orient no az nem feher, mint az igazi fajmagyar him.

>Kocsis
>(igazi fajmagyar)$B_Q(JL(I5$B˜*6(I0+(J

Mi errol egy "igazi fajmagyar" velemenye?

Dazed and confused,

Gabor
aka. Bird Jaguar, Lord of the Mayas at Yaxchilan

Subject: Tonalamatl/Tue. Feb 13, 1996

Maya Long Count: 12. 19. 2. 16. 4.  10-Kan  12 Pax

1230 Years Ago, in 766:
    [9.16.15.0.0] Lord Bird-Jaguar of Yaxchilan celebrates the calendar period
    ending with his wife, his son, and his cahals, Great-Skull-Zero and
    Tilot.

"History cannot be divorced from religious ideology."
 -- Frank Waters, _Mexico Mystique_

An open letter to Dr. Odor.

It is with considerable interest that I read your messages re: New York
Roundtable. My premise is that all participants in this debate are
working for a free, democratic, tolerant and prosperous Hungary. A
country where there is a place for all who feel themselves to be
Hungarian or for those who wish to share in Hungarian values. A country
whose citizens are self-confident, willingly shoulder responsibility,
and who do not have a need to ascribe their problems and failures to
shadowy outsiders, real or imagined. 

There are many ways to reach these goals. People of goodwill can, and
probably will, disagree on how these ends can be achieved. Under the great
tent there should be room for all to debate without questioning the
integrity or motives of those with whom one happens to disagree. Such
arguments are rarely constructive and even less enlightening.

In this country, we are used to arguing over issues, but unless there
is incontrovertible evidence, the rule of the game is that the alleged
motives or the character of an opponent is not dragged into the
discussion. Motivation is not the issue, the proposed solution is. Thus
I find it disconcerting when in this debate an attempt is made to shift
the focus to motives and alleged actions are attributed without a shred
of evidence of support. Thus, Dr. Odor, I believe that if you have
verifiable evidence to support your claims against the alleged
"wrongdoers" as you phrase it, state them and give us the benefit of
your knowledge. Calling a person a "---" does not make that person a
"---". If you feel so strongly, marshal your facts. People are
intelligent enough to draw the right conclusions. If you do not have the
facts or if you fail to reveal them, don't expect to be taken seriously.
Repeating scurrilous accusations will not lend credence to your point of
view.

If you have a better solution than the proposals with which you
disagree, come up with a better one. To solve the problems that Hungary
faces will require the best minds, both from the left and the right,
Catholics, Protestants, Jews, atheists or whatever god they happen to
believe in. The solution may come from people who trace their ancestry
to the original Hungarian tribes, Germans, Gypsies, Slavs, Jews or be
descendants of wherever their ancestors may have come to settle in
Hungary. All should be welcome. Racism should have no place in this
debate. One hopes that the discussions to come will be illuminating,
far-ranging and will engage all those who wish their homeland or land of
their ancestry the best. 

Sincerely,

CSABA K ZOLTANI

Hali,

Csaba Zoltani wrote:
>The solution may come from people who trace their ancestry
> to the original Hungarian tribes

Hello?? How long ago did the Arpad Haz die off?? No one can claim true 
"Hungarian" identity, which is what makes me laugh about the extremists in 
Hungary, today. There hasn't been a pure "Hungarian", since the first Tatar 
invasion. This was a pretty ludicrous statement.

Udv.,
Czifra Jancsi
john_czifra @ shi.com

It is typical of liberalbosheviks not only to lie, but to condone violence by
their fellow-camerades, as Peter Szaszvari just did. He demonstrates to those
(if any) who are dubious if anyone still condones violence in supposedly
"postcommunist" Hungary. Yes, ALL violent liberalbolsheviks are still
amongst the population at large in Hungary, most especially since NOT A
SINGLE ONE has been imprisioned (and, of course, the first was for them
to do away with capital punishment once they reached the brink of losing
power...)

Peter Szaszvari's "kadarjugend indoctrination" is beautifully illustrative,
because:

(1) He blatantly lies that the 9 students were "kopaszok" [literally bald
headed, implying "skinheads"]! It was only the COMMANDO who used
this expletive, amongst many other  [quoted] pieces aimed specifically
at verbal abuse! Noteworthy is the fact that the 3 high-school GIRLS,
for instance, could be called anything but "kopaszok"!

(2) Peter Szaszvari condones beating EVERYBODY who looks like a
skinhead, without evidence that the person ever acted like a skinhead.

(3) Even if any or all students were not only looking like skinheads,
but would IN FACT BE skinheads, as established by themselves
or the judiciary, the kind of physical and other abuse against them as
reported is completely illegal, unjustifiable and deplorable anywhere
but in police-states of liberalbolshevist terror.

(4) Particularly illustrative is Peter Szaszvari's primitive and brutal
"kadarjugend" mentality  that anyone FOUND with baseball bats could
justifiably be beaten by his/her baseball bat!

Readers of these columns who might (obviously mistakenly) believe that
even remotely basic tenets of human rights, democracy, or simply
decency, have successfully penetrated the thickness of half a century of
liberalbolshevik nightmare, can plainly see from Peter Szaszvari's
(rather typical) knee-jerk approval of communist Commando brutality
on peacefully gathering students, that they have not. Peter Szaszvari is
at least (reasonably) literate in computerese and English and is exposed
to some Western influence (even if he is unable to absorbe such). Thus
readers can guess how badly Hungary is in need of the kind of international
monitoring of human rights that "Amnesty International" is conducting
worldwide, in places where half a century of communist indoctrination
left people in far worse shape than miserable Peter Szaszvari is.

In article >,
Karoly Huszar  > wrote:
|  wrote:
| >In article >, Karoly Huszar
| > wrote:
| >
| >> A kovetkezok a TALMUD-ban talalhatok; forditasat ratok bizom, nem akarok 
| 
| >ja. csak ez a kedves hulye elfelejtette megemliteni hogy a stormfront egy
| >neo-nazi organizacio. es tele van a site mindenfele fajgyuloletes
| >marhasaggal.
| 
| Inkabb arrol irj hogy ezek tenyleg a TALMUD-ban vannak, vagy csak en 
| talaltam ki oket.
| Egyebkent megnyomtam a [net search] gombot, es tobbek kozott ezt kopte 
| ki.  Lehet hogy a forras elitelheto, de itt csak az informacio fontos.
| Egyebkent ki nem allhatom a neonacikat, szeparatistakat, es a zsido 
| osszeeskuvesben hivoket. 
| 


Megkerdeztem egy hozzaerto baratomat aki a kovetkezoket
mondta: 
Az emlitett szovegek egy resze egyszeru hamisitas ahol egy
vagy tobb szot egyszeruen felreforditottak.

- Peldaul az hogy egy zsido minden nemzsidot buntetlenul megolhet. 
- Az hogy egy zsido barmilyen kilenc evnel fiatalabb
gyerekkel kozosulhet
- Az hogy egy zsidonak kotelessege a kereszteny bibliat
elegetnie
- Az hogy egy nem zsido ha megut egy zsidot azert halal
buntetes jar. 

(azt hiszem meg kihagyhattam valamit)
 
Mas szovegek ertelmezesenel figyelembe kell venni hogy a
forras ketezer eve keletkezett -  es NEM "A TAN"- t takarja
mint ahogy ez elhangzott hanem annak a kornak egy vallasi
torvenykezesi hagyomanyanak volt az
alapja. Osszehasonlitaskepp  - az inkvizicio, a
boszorkanyperek, a zsidok (de akarmilyen mas hituek)
torvenyen kivul helyezese europaban meg 1000-1500 evvel
ezutan is elfogadott volt. 

Minden hamisitas ellenere - nyilvan a talmud joggyakorlata
nem felel meg a ketezer evvel kesobbi jogi elveknek, es
termeszetesen nincs is jogi alkalmazasban. Ennek
szamonkerese tehat mai zsidokon, olyan mintha az
isteniteleteket, vagy Vazul meggyilkolasat kernenk szamon -
pedig az is tobb mint ezer evvel kesobb tortent - fele olyan
regen.

Istvan

 (Frank Gombos) wrote:

>Szeretnem megtudni, hogy letezik e informacio a MIEK-rol, Csurka 
>Istvan hazafias activitasarol.
Are you talking about that certain Csurka who is giving a bad name to
his country with his "hazafias" stupidity?   Cornel

George Antony Ph 93818 > wrote:
>
>En es tobb ismerosom egyhangulag kirohognenk.
> ...
>tovabba: egy magyar eloszor is csak a tortenelmi Magyarorszag teruleten 
>elhet.  

Marmint a te es ismeroseid szerint.  Ezt igazan hozzatehetted volna.

P. J.

In article >,
Gabor Elek  > wrote:
 
> Hozzateszem a Toth Judit nevu ur (tuti)

Errol most ugyanolyan jol vagy ertesulve, mint az en allitolagos
levelvaltasomrol Viktoriaval?

JP

 (Istvan Szucs) wrote:
>
> PLEASE remove inappropriate newsgroups from this thread.

But how do we know which are the innappropriate groups?


Kim

In article >,
Laszlo Katkits > wrote:
| 
| Joe Pannonnak:
| 
|   Egyszeruen fogtam magam es kicsereltem egy szovegszerkesztovel, meg
| nemileg kezzel a "zsido"-t MAGYAR-ra a szovegedben. Erdekes lett az
| eredmeny:
| 
[Tenyleg erdekes, de nem heez szerretnek most hozzasszolni]
| 
| Van azert itt ket dolog:
| 
| 1. Amint a zsidok kiirtottak 7 millio nemzsidot, azoknak nemzsidosaga
| miatt, maris kvittek vagyunk, attol kezdve minden osszehasonlithato
| lesz. De barmennyire is igazsagosnak is tartanam ezt a fejlemenyt,
| meg a gondolatatol is borzadok, es nem hiszem hogy volna olyan epeszu
| zsido, vagy nemzsido, akinek ez a torlesztes celja, vagy
| vagya lenne.

Igazsagosnak tartanad ezt a fejlemenyt? (ertem hogy nem
kivanod)Mennyiben lenne igazsag ket szornyu igazsagtalansag egyuttese.



| De annyit mindenesetre megkovetelhet minden zsido a legyilkolt
| 7 millio neveben, hogy senki se gyalazza emlekuket, senki se hasonlitsa
| nepenek sanyaru sorsat a zsidok szenvedeseihez. Soha meg semmilyen nepet
| nem uldoztek ilyen sokaig, soha semmilyen nepet nem irtottak meg igy.
| Es ha lehetne valami haszna a 7 millio halalanak, akkor az lehetne,
| hogy soha semmilyen nepnek ne is kelljen ilyen borzalom toredeket sem
| elszenvednie.

Nem hiszem hogy barki szenvedese kissebb lenne azert mert
msa is szenvedett. Sohasem ertettem azt hogy mire jok azok
a versenyek amelyek arrol szolnak hogy ki szenvedett tobbet.

| 
| leveleit megegyszer ! Es elarulom, nekem is lenne kedvem nehany
| szemelyeskedo jelzore a tudos holggyel kapcsolatban, mert ilyen
| hajmereszto hazudozot es nyilt fajuldozot nem lattam meg itt ezeken
| a lapokon, sot azt hiszem Goebbels ota kevesen vetettek papirra ilyet.
| 
Ez utobbival egyet ertek. A hajam szala egnek al. Ami a
legszornyubb az az
hogy a holgy kepes ugyanazt haromezerszer leirni anelkul
hogy szuksegesnek irna barmivel indokolni - meg ha a
legszornyubb vadakrol is van szo.Ha az ember valaszol kepes
a valasz neki nem tetszo reszeit nem cafolni hanem
tokeletesen figyelmen kivul hagyni - akar ezerszer is.

 (Gyorgy Kovacs) wrote:

>< The entire stuff deleted >

>Enne'l nagyobb tome'ny baromsa'got leguto'bb Mihai O. Dima tolla'bo'l 
>(keyboardja'bo'l) olvashattunk.
>Senkinek nincs sem joga sem szake'rtelme hogy valaki magyarsa'ga't 
>megke'rdo~jelezze. Mindenkinek maga'nak kell eldontenie hogy magyarnak e'rzi-e
>maga't avagy nem.
>Hogy azta'n az illeto~ magyarhoz me'lto'an besze'l, ir vagy viselkedik, vagy 
>nem, az megint ma's ke'rdes.
>Gyuri
===============
Kedves Gyuri , PLAGIUM! - szavait nem tette idezojelbe! Ugyanis,
ezeket Goncz Arpad koztarsasagi elnok mondotta meg az Antall-kormany
idejeben. De megismeteltek ugyanezt az izraeli es a budapesti
hitkozsegek vezeto egyenisegei is, akkortajt, amikor nem tudtak
elhatarozni, hogy mint nemzetisegek vagy vallasi csoportok legyenek
nyilvantartva. Akkor sokszor hallottuk, hogy "magyar mindaz, aki annak
vallja magat, aki annak erzi magat! "
Csak sajnos ez a magyarsagtudathoz nem eleg, hiszen  a zsidoknal is
tobb a kovetelmeny, mint "zsido mindaz, aki zsidonak erzi magat!"

A magyarsagtudat "megmagyarazasahoz" nem "szakertelem" kell, hanem
egyszeruen csak magyarsagtudat. Akinek ez nincs, az nem is ertheti,
hogy mirol van szo. Az ehhez valo "jogrol"  meg aztan ne is
beszeljunk, mert akkor Goncz Arpadnak sem lenne joga megmagyarazni,
hogy "ki a magyar."

A kerdest azonban kitunoen megfogta es gratulalok! Barki vallhatja
magat  magyarnak a vegtelensegig, de a magyarsagat vegulis az donti
el, hogy hogyan VISELKEDIK es hogyan EREZ.: magyarhoz illoen es
meltoan, vagy pedig a magyar nyelvet hasznalva - mert nem tud mas
nyelven megszolalni - idegen erzeseinek ad kifejezest. 
Ha peldaul  egy idegen szemely magyarnak vallja magat, de eszebe sincs
sorskozosseget vallalni a magyar nemzettel, nem kuzd a hazaert, hanem
husege mas orszag  nepehez huz, akkor az ilyennel nem lehet mit
kezdeni. Ez az egyen csak magyarul beszelo magyarorszagi allampolgar! 

Felreertes ne essek! Nem  baj az, hogy valaki magyarul mondja meg,
hogy  o  francia, vagy kinai,....vagy eppen zsido,  csak azt ne
mondja, hogy magyar, mert a vegen meg sajat magahoz sem oszinte, hat
meg az embertarsaihoz!
Persze aztan vannak olyanok is, akik - kameleon modjara - alkalmasint
olyan inget vesznek fel, amilyent eppenseggel az erdekeik megkivan!
Akinek igazan van magyarsagtudata, az egybol felismeri  a szineszeket.

=== Marcius leven az 1848-as Magyar Szabadsagharc honapja,  idezem
annak a koltonek a szavait, akit "Petrovics"-nak hivtak, ennek
ellenere megmutatta hogyan kell magyarul erezni es viselkedni.
[Persze, akiknek nem inge, az ne vegye magara!]
====
(...)"Magyar vagyok. Mi mostan a magyar?
Holt dicsoseg halvany kisertete;
Fol-foltunik s lebuvik nagy hamar
- Ha vert az ora - odva melyibe.
Hogy hallgatunk! a masodik szomszedig
Alighogy kuldjuk eletunk neszet."(...)
===
(...)"Mas hazaban hiven orzik
Mindazt, ami nemzeti;
Osi kincset a magyar nep
Megveti es elveti,
A  MAGYAR MAGYARNAK LENNI
 ELFELED VAGY SZEGYENEL -
ES AZ ILY ELKORCSOSULT NEMZET
Eletet nem erdemel...

Oh de me'rt elosorolnom
E szegeny hon vetkeit?
Lesz-e sors, oh lesz-e Isten,
Aki minket megsegit?
A nagy Isten szent kegyebol
Jo"-e megvaltasi jel?
Lesz-e meg e nemzet olyan, 
Hogy halalt nem erdemel?
[Petofi Sandor]
===
24. ORA * http://www.infobahnos.com/~jtoth

Kim Niendorf > wrote:

 (Istvan Szucs) wrote:
>>
>> PLEASE remove inappropriate newsgroups from this thread.

>But how do we know which are the innappropriate groups?


>Kim
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
 (Istvan Szucs) wrote:
>> PLEASE remove inappropriate newsgroups from this thread.
Answer to Istvan Szucs, who is suggesting ethnic cleansing on the
INTERNET?!... What  is next Steve? The CIA? The FBI? The Interpol? The
Mossad?...
We are all waiting to see what Mr. Szucs  decides on  who is
appropriate on the NET, or who is not.
[TJ]

Egyaltalan nem kedves Toth Judit !

Levelet, amiben maganlevelkent valaszolja meg azt, amit en
nyiltan irok, nem lattam az S.C.M-em. Lemaradt, vagy nem bizik
sajat irasa tarthatosagaban? Hogy ne essek felreertes, en
most lekozlom amit irt, es mindjart az en kommentaromat is
hozzafuzom.

>VALASZ KATKITS LASZLONAK es elvtarsainak!
>
>Elvtarsak, minek a szemlyeskedo  jelzo? Muvelt es civilizalt  emberek
>eszmecseret szoktak folytatni, nem pedig cimkezni es szemelyeskedni!
>De mivel  cafolni nem tudnak,  akkor szemelyeskednek? Csak eddig
>tartott a muveltseguk es a  tudomanyuk?
- Mint kiskegyed is olvashatta, elarultam, hogy volna kedvem nehany
szemelyeskedo megjegyzesre, de elalltam tole. Most miert hazudja
kiskegyed, hogy szemelyeskedtem ?
- Cafolni ? Mit ? Az olyan huJesegeket, hogy "mit ir a Talmud a
keresztenyekrol?" Kinek kellene itt valamit cafolni ? Az, hogy a Talmudot
sokszaz evvel az elso kereszteny megjelenese elott irtak, nem lehet
cafolat semmire, ilyen mellekes korulmenyeket egy ilyen nagy tudos,
mint kiskegyed nem vehet figyelembe? Mifele cafolat foghat egy
Toth Juditon ?

>Masfelol, ha valaki valakit idez, akkor legyen benne legalabb annyi
>tisztesseg, hogy az idezet ne legyen hamishirterjesztes, - magyarul
>HAZUGSAG - mert ez meg a torveny elott sem allja meg a helyet! -- On a
>szokott modon  ragalmaz es  ezt irja: (...) <hiaba koveteli Toth Judit
>a gazkamrak ujra uzembehelyezeset.>(...) ????????
>
>Meg az a szerencse, hogy az INTERNET olvasoi  tanuk  arra, hogy EN
>EZT SOHA NEM IRTAM LE SEHOVA! 

- Termeszetesen ezt nem irja le igy, ezt a kovetkeztetest az olvasoknak
kell levonniuk, miutan on olyan szepen bebizonyitotta, hogy a zsidok
vilagosszeeskuvese a magyarsag elveszejtesere csak a zsidok kiirtasaval
allithato meg. Kiskegyed az "implicit allitas" ketes technikajat 
gyakorolja
minden irasaban, ahol renszeresen olyanokat allit, hogy az AVO-sok
zsidok voltak (implicite: MINDNYAJAN), es remtetteiket a zsidosag neveben,
(Hiszen zsidok voltak !) tette'k (kizarolag) a magyarokkal szemben (minden
zsido aldozat eleve letagadva). Az remtettek oka az AVO-sok zsidosagaban
keresendo, ideologiajuk a Talmudbol szarmazik.  Azt, hogy mindezt leirta,
csak nem akarja letagadni ? Es mivel nem gazdasagos a regi modszer szerint
a Dunaba loni a zsidokat, mi marad mas mint a gazkamrak ujra
uzembehelyezese?

>"szokott modon  ragalmaz"
- Tolem on meg levelet nem kapott. Allitasa, hogy en barmit is szoktam
onnel kapcsolatban, szemenszedett hazugsag.

>Persze ha egyeseknek meglehetosen
>gyengus az allaspontja, akkor ez a legjobb tamadas! Ezt onok   
>Magyarorszagon mar 50 ev ota gyakoroljak, ugyhogy nagyon ismeros a
>modszer! 

- Nem lakom Magyarorszagon, a kommunistak elol menekultem el onnan.
Semmilyen formaban nem vettem reszt a hatalomban, meg a KISZ-ben sem.
Ha akarta volna, a cimbol lathatta volna, hogy Svedorszagbol irok. A 
fentiek
ezaltal sajat magukat cafoljak, es ismet csak azt bizonyitjak, hogy on
szivesen eltekint a valosagtol.

>=== 
>KATKITS: <Es elarulom, nekem is lenne kedvem nehany
>>szemelyeskedo jelzore a tudos holggyel kapcsolatban, mert ilyen
>>hajmereszto hazudozot (?) es nyilt fajuldozot (?) nem lattam meg itt 
ezeken
>>a lapokon, sot azt hiszem Goebbels ota kevesen vetettek papirra ilyet.>
>===
>Akkor mar eppe ideje, hogy ezek az oldalak felfrissuljenek. Nem is
>orulnek neki, hogy kiraztam magukat a kulturalis tespedesbol? -- Ha

Ha a na'ci propadanda hianyat kulturalis tespedesnek lehet nevezni...

>van hozza tudasuk es eleg tajekozottsaguk akkor CAFOLJAK  MEG MINDAZT,
>AMIT IRTAM, mert maskeppen elvtarsaim onok - a muveltseg teren -  igen
                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
on nekem semmilyen elvemben nem tarsam, semmilyen alapon !!!!
- Muveltseg ? Hat, valoban nem forgatom a Mein Kampf-ot lefekves
elott. De szerintem a muveltseg jelenthet egyebet is.
  
>rossz szinben allnak az Ur szine elott!
>
>"Istenem szabaditsd meg Magyarorszagot ezektol a gonosztevoktol!"
>
>[Judit, de nem az oszovetsegi!]
>
  Tolem mint veszelyes gonosztevotol mar eleg reg megszabadult
Magyarorszag. De azert remelem, hogy on nem szabadul RA Magyarorszagra.
Abban a remenyben elek, hogy a magyarsag tobbsege tisztesseges, normalis
EMBER, akik nem kernek megegyszer ebbol a gyalazatbol.

//Laszlo

In article >,
Judith Toth > wrote:
| Kim Niendorf > wrote:
| 
|  (Istvan Szucs) wrote:
| >>
| >> PLEASE remove inappropriate newsgroups from this thread.
| 
| >But how do we know which are the innappropriate groups?
| 
| 
| >Kim
| @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
|  (Istvan Szucs) wrote:
| >> PLEASE remove inappropriate newsgroups from this thread.
| Answer to Istvan Szucs, who is suggesting ethnic cleansing on the
| INTERNET?!... 

What thhe hell are you talking about? Do you have ANY idea
what thread I am responding to?! Dear Ms Editor, I am
responding to a thread in a foreign language that has
nothing to do with Hungary, or Hungarians. The post does not
belong on this newsgroup - I have explained why - has
nothing to do with ethnic cleansing or anything of the sort.

| What  is next Steve? The CIA? The FBI? The Interpol? The
| Mossad?...

Again - what the HELL are you talking about? I have asked
someone to remove this newsgroup from an inappropriate
thread. I believe you do udnerstand why that is different
then calling the CIA or the FBI or the Mossad or even the
Skinheads.

Oh.. and  one more thing. My name is Istvan.. If Americans
give me the respect of referrng to me by my first name-
"Istvan" - you could too. So please do. - Or I am sending
the Interpol on you ;) 

| We are all waiting to see what Mr. Szucs  decides on  who is
| appropriate on the NET, or who is not.

When did I suggest that SOMEONE is not appropriate on the
net?
All I suggested was that eg. Dutch love letters are not
appropriate on THIS NEWSGROUP .

Congratulations.. your flame in English allowed you to make
a fool out of yourself in front of possibly tens of
thousands of international readers . Good editorial choice.

Istvan

I wonder if any one has met people by that name in Hungary. (Paryas)
	Please reply by E-mail to
	Heinz Paryas   

Ivan Marinov <int0108> wrote:


>A kommunistaknak nincsenek nemzeti erzeseik, igy teljesen mindegy hogy egy 
>kommunista zsido-e vagy nem. Nem lehet az ember egyszerre kommunista es 
>cionista, a ketto ellentmond egymasnak.

Igazandibol nem azzal akarok vitaba szallni, amit mondtal, hanem
azzal, ahogy. Nem hiszek abban, hogy vannak "A kommunistak". Van ilyen
kommunista is meg olyan is, ahogy van ilyen ember es olyan is. A
kommunizmus, velemnyem szerint egy tarsadalmi-gazdasagi utopia. Az
eszmet meg kell kulonboztetni a vegrehatjoitol. Nagyon rendes dolognak
tartom azt, hogy sok kommunista, aki hitt abban, amiert dolgozott,
valoban segiteni akart, es meg volt gyozodve rola, hogy jo uton jar.
Az egy mas kerdes, hogy nem volt igazuk. Sajnos, abban igazad van,
hogy sokkal tobben voltak a parton belul az opportunistak,
karrieristak, hatalomra ehesek. De ahogy nincsenek "a zsidok", "a
magyarok" ugy nincsenek "a kommunistak" sem. Mindig csak egyes emberek
vannak.