In article >,
Wally Keeler > wrote:
>In Canada, there is a high suicide rate amongst the Native Canadians, very
>close to the rate that Hungarians commit suicide, perhaps even exceeding
>it. The Natives live in remote and isolated communities and they have been
>culturally immasculated -- the unrelenting despair of their lives leads
>all too often to alcoholism, sniffing and suicide. The Hungarian suicide
>rate I found curious, largely because I consider Hungary more economically
>and culturally advantaged than its former Warsaw Pact neighbours,
>especially Romania, where there is more reason for despair than in
>Hungary, yet the resilience of the Romanians, insofar as the suicide rate
>is concerned, exceeds that of the Hungarians. Why do you think this may be
>so?

 (Gabor Barsai)
|I think it is because of the "honor and respect" attitude that is
|prevalent for some reason in Hungarian society, or at least as I have
|found. For some reason, which I am not able to understand, there is a
|tendency to take everything personally. 

"For some reason" "for some reason" Obviously you are not able to
understand.

|Therefore, being labeled as "bad" is seen as an objective, rather
|than a subjective statement. If somebody does not act in a way that is
|"accepted" by Hungarian society, the society will label you as "bad".
|Since that is taken on an objective level, you become an outcast.

That's not particularly unique to Hungary. In the big town where I grew up,
I was told on occassion by someone that I was as crazy as my father (who
suicided). I was an outcast on that point. In addition, because I acted in
a way that was not accepted by Canadian society, I was equally regarded as
bad. Indeed, I had to experience a number of scoops by police and undergo
body searches for drugs, I had my mail intercepted and confiscated, I had
my phone wiretapped, I lost a job and was evicted from an apartment because
of RCMP Security Service activity, I had an arsonist gut another apartment
with fire. Friends and acquaintances were picked up and interrogated about
me, whether I was a loyal Canadian, etc. I was an outcast. I was not alone.
So your statement above is not distinctive to Hungary. It is common in
virtually all societies.

|Look at Horthy or Antall, the last and first independent political leaders
|(let's not mention the communists who took everything personally, anybody
|who was against them was liquidated, and who weren't independent in
|political life).

Petty bureaucraps exist in all societies. 

|Both Horthy and Antall seemed to be occupied by moral issues instead of
|pragmatic issues, as I see it. (Trying to regain the "thousand year
|borders" or being the "prime-minister of 15,000,000 Hungarians".) This is
|all nice, but moral victories don't amount to much in the long run. There
|have been a few posts concerning how Hungary and the Hungarians "saved the
|West from the Turkish scourge in the 16th and 17th century, so the West
|should repay its debt for this". Even being a Hungarian, I consider that
|stupid. Complaining about such stuff will just make the country look
|moronic.

That would take a quantum effort, given the prevalent moronic political
behaviour of Hungary's southern neighbour. But how does this political
situation contribute to the inordinately high suicide rate for Hungarians.

|I think the only way to lower the suicide rate is to try to create better
|economic conditions, instead of concentrating on moral issues, and being
|judgemental.

If Hungarians look around them (Ukraine, Slovakia, Romania, former
Jugoslavija) they can see that their economic conditions are better, and
that of the former Warsaw Pact bloc, Hungary is situated better to continue
such economic growth. There must be some other contributing factor. It
suspect that there is a cultural cause. Poverty, although a contributing
factor, is not necessarily the root. Extremely poor countries don't share
the same high rates of suicide as a rich country like Canada, or a less
rich country like Hungary. The Native Canadians are poor, but I suspect
that their alcoholism and high suicide rate has more to do with their
cultural immasculation. Was the suicide rate high for Hungary prior to the
twentieth century? The 20th has been exceedingly unkind to Hungary. The
empire is gone, permanently. This had a profound cultural effect. World War
I, followed by World War II followed by dictatershit... 

|Look at my innocent post on "chicks". Talking to two American women from
|my department, and with my knowledge of American attitudes, I considered
|that word innocent. 

As a poet, I am opposed to all forms of censorshit. Censure-ship is a
different matter.

|The only ones criticizing me were people with Hungarian names (Brigitta,
|Laszlo Zvekan "no chicks here" and Kovacs Gyuri). People with
|non-Hungarian names posted "there sure are". Even if I considered Brigi a
|slut, would that make her a slut?

It would all depend on whether they respond to the call.
You call for chicks, and out steps Anna.
You call for sluts, and Brigitta will stomp your face a la 1984-style.
You call for self-respecting women, and you'll be overwhelmed by replies.
Your knowledge of American attitudes may well be limited and besides, it
would be foolish to the extreme to make any conclusions based on the chick-
threads.

|Or would it be just my opinion? If Csurka considers me as a dork, or if
|Wally considers me a "meathead", would I be one? 

You are in part what you post. I'm a smart-assed, insolent, creative wit
type. You lean towards the banal and bland. It's not an opinion; it's a
perceptive observation. Brigitta got it right on the nose when she
described your posts as "stale as a second gland condom." It doesn't mean
that you are less of a human being and should jump off a bridge or suck off
off an exhaust pipe as my father did. You are in part what you post. It is
intended to be both personal AND objective.

|Nope. (BTW, I think Pamela Anderson, the ultimate fluff-chick, is from
|Edmonton, nicht war?)
|Gabor

Yes she is. She learned her trade from The Original Fluff-chick -- Zsa Zsa
Gabor, igan? In spite of her antiquity, she's still attempting to fluff
off. BTW, Miss Canada didn't jump in front of a subway train a la Miss
Hungary. 

Disregards
-- 
Wally Keeler					Poetry
Creative Intelligence Agency			is
Peoples Republic of Poetry			Poetency

Why should I let go? Seems the same phenom afflicts you. I inspire it, but you
and Goober are still the central source. Sorry. All I do is squeeze your minds
and poof there it is. 

Anna Smith wrote:
|If you hadn't of helped cultivate it then there wouldn't be such an 
|abundance now would there?  Poor Wallace.  Seems he just can't let go...

On Fri, 12 Apr 1996, Wally Keeler wrote:

>                    ATTENTION SHOPPERS
>                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>           SPRING SALE ON GARDEN FERTILIZERS
> 
> soc.culture.magyar has recently seen an surge in the production of
> industrial-strength fertilizer. Not since the immasculation of the Horthy
> Hordes and Commie Covens have the FUNgarian people seen such a quantum
> display of post-nutritive disposal substances. GOOBER PRZZT BARFSAI BRAND,
> in 5 litre bags, is guaranteed to produce robust papikras. Just sprinkle
> your lawn and be astonished at the growth -- it's almost as if a politician
> had spoken there. GOOBER PRZZT BARFSAI BRAND is recognized internationally.
> The supply is endless. Below is a list of some of the many nutrients to be
> found in GOOBER PRZZT BARFSAI BRAND:
> 
> #######################################################################
> 
>  (Gabor Barsai)wrote:
> Don't bet on it...yesterday at the local BP gas station a chick asked me to
> lunch while I was paying for gas. She has nice blue eyes and black hair.
> I mean, I can't help my good looks and superior qualities, can I?
> You're a feisty one, aren't you! I like that in a woman, too...
> Here's a few poems, just for Brigi:
> Who is it, that makes me feel oogy,
> Only you, my dear, sweet Brigi.
> Reggel nem tudok enni, mert Rad gondolok,
> Delben nem tudok enni, mert Rad gondolok,
> Este nem tudok enni, mert Rad gondolok,
> Ejjel nem tudok aludni, mert ehes vagyok.
> Hahahahaha!
> Oh, I'm just soooooo good!
> 
> ######################################################################
> 
> How it is processed:
>                          ___
>                  /======/             
>         ____    //      \__       
>          | \\  //          \:,   
>  |_______|__|_//            ;:;                
> _L_____________\o           ;;;
> (CCCCCCCCCCCCCC)            ;;;;
> |=================
>                  |(Gabor Barsai)wrote: Don't bet on|
>                  |it. . . yesterday at the local BP|
>                  |gas  station a chick  asked me to|
>                  |lunch while I was paying for gas.|
>                  |She has nice  blue eyes and black|
>                  |hair. I mean,I can't help my good|
>                  \looks and superior qualities, can/
>                   \I? You're a feisty  one, aren't/
>                    \you!  I like that in a woman,/
>                     \too. . .Here's a few poems,/
>                      \just for Brigi:Who is it,/
>                       \that makes me feel oogy/
>                        \Only you, my dear, sw/
>                         \eet Brigi.Reggel ne/
>                          \m tudok enni, mer/
>                           \t Rad gondolok,/
>                            \Delben nem tu/
>                             \dok enni, m/
>                              \ert Rad g/
>                               |ondolok|
>                               |Este ne|
>                               |tudok a|
>                               |Hahahah|
>                               |aha! Oh|
>                               |Im just|
>                               |soooooo|
>                                \good!/
>                                 '
>                                 |  '
>                                 G  |
>                                 O  B
>                                 O  A
>                                 B  R
>                          (      E )F         )
>                                 R(
>                           )       )         (
>                          (      ((    (      )
>                          ))      ))    )    (    (
>                  )      ((    GOBS O  (    ))    )
>                 (        ))  GABOR BARSAI  ((    (   (
>                  )      (GABOR BARSAI GYORGY KOVACS   )
>                 (    GOOBER KOVACUOUS GAYORGY BARFSAI(
>               LAYER AFTER LAYER AFTER LAYER AFTER LAYER       
> ==================================================================
> -- 
> Wally Keeler                     Poetry
> Creative Intelligence Agency          is
> Peoples Republic of Poetry            Poetency
-- 
Wally Keeler					Poetry
Creative Intelligence Agency			is
Peoples Republic of Poetry			Poetency

Enike > wrote:
|Oh, poor Wally.  You've spent so much time on this it seems that you're 
|jealous that you didn't think of it first and the only thing you could 
|get to bite your bait was Brig.  Still no date to occupy your time I see! 
|LOLOLOL  Poor little boy, you've been losing a lot of sleep over this 
|haven't you?  LOLOLOLOL

What is this "poor" stuff that you have been droning on about in virtually
every post you've delivered. Are you so creatively-challanged that you are
unable to imagine other manifestations of insult-scenarios? Obviously your
ability to create is very poor.

Bite my bait? Hmmmm. There was enough who bite my bait, but I threw them
all back into the sea for the 2nd raters, eg. Goober. I throw you back into
the primordial ooze for further development.

Poor, poor, poor. Get origanal, Annal
-- 
Wally Keeler					Poetry
Creative Intelligence Agency			is
Peoples Republic of Poetry			Poetency

In article >, George Lazar > wrote:
>My understanding is that the purpose of this newsgroup is to
>exchange wiews related to the society and culture of Hungary. In
>the last couple of weeks, a series of hateful (anti-jewish,
>anti-gypsy, anti-gay, anti-romanian...) notes were posted from
>public.siliconvalley.com. Individuals were attacked (Eva S. Balog);
>notes were posted which don't aim to foster a healthy debate about
>real issues, but intend to spread hate against jews, gypsys,
>gays...whoever..
>
>Can the maintainer of this newsgroup block postings from
>public.siliconvalley.com ?

Nope, it's an unmoderated group.
>
>If not, I suggest to remove the entire group from the usenet list.
>

Too much trouble. Just unsubscribe.

In article >,  (Ferenc Istvan
Vaski) wrote:

>  (T. M. Lutas) wrote:

> >Funny, when the "Hungarians in Transylvania" series was posted, I gave
> >some commentaries on how wrong a few of the points were. The church
> >persecution points were most egregious but the ethnic figures that
> >were cited in the census figures were startling for the pre-communist
> >years. My responses were not responded to by 1 hungarian claiming that
> >they were wrong or overblown or false in any way that I can remember.
> >They simply sank into a general silence. I didn't use anything but my
> >own knowledge of history and the figures posted by hungarians to counter
> >the points.
> 
> >The problem with Hungarian propaganda from a hungarian perspective is that
> >it is so often self-contradictory. You folks have gotten so lazy that you
> >don't even really check your figures very much. Keep those softballs 
> >coming, I love to knock them out of the park. 
> 
> >DB

> ....Propaganda?...check our figrures?...there is no need..history
> cleaves in our behalf....not yours...your way is to CREATE figures
> that fit the need....there is no question of laziness that exits
> here....it is just simple truth's that have been manupulated for
> generations on *your* folks part....trust me...at this point you
> haven't even hit a "grounder"...if we are entering into a battle of
> wits on this topic I am getting the distinct impression I am dealing
> with someone that is unarmed...F.I.V.

OK, would you care to defend a previous hungarian's contention that there
was more church persecution of hungarian churches in 1948 than there was
of the Byzantine rite catholic faith (greco-catolic). 1948 was the year
when this church was disbanded and most of the clergy was thrown in jail.
In this year the hungarian claimed that there were no churches or other
properties confiscated by the government except for 17 'episcopal palaces'
as I recall. This particular bit of history is so obvious and so well
documented that I wasn't aware that there were people around that were so
ignorant of the facts until this post slapped me in the face.

I didn't keep the ethnic figures in my archives but 
posted the entire series. Somehow I don't think he is going to want to
repost the relevant tables.

DB

DB

-- 
Romanian Political Pages now are available
http://haven.ios.com/~dbrutus

In article > Gabor Barsai,
 writes:
>I think the only way to lower the suicide rate is to try to create better
>economic conditions, instead of concentrating on moral issues, and being
>judgemental.

> T. Kocsis >wrote:
|No way. This reasoning is an obvous cul-de-sac. 

He's been that way before.

|The suicide rates increased together with the Hungarian living standard.

Is this a recent phenomenon? Or is it historical? Were there records of any
sort on suicide in previous centuries?

|I wouldn't say however that it is a moral issue. 

The fact that I made it a moral issue insofar as my father is concerned
(considering it a cowardly act; preferring to kill others) has no bearing
on the causitive factors of suicide -- it is only an internalization and
survival technique for my benefit. 

|Right now I tend to agree with the opinion of Hamvas Béla, that beside
|many other things, we have too many, five, characteristic and conflicting
|life strategies (he calls them geniuses) in a small place which is tough
|to reconcile. In the Carpathian basin you may find the next ones: latin,
|north, west-european, asian/east and transilvanian. It can be a disastrous
|mixture.
|Tamas

I am not steeped in the Hungarian geniuses. Could you elaborate?
-- 
Wally Keeler					Poetry
Creative Intelligence Agency			is
Peoples Republic of Poetry			Poetency

Pannon Jozsef azt hiszi, "erkolcsi nulla"-nak nevezheti Elek Gabort
minden tiltakozas nelkul. Nagyon teved! Sot, meg le is "dogkeselyuzte"
Elek Gabort. Na, most megkapja a magaet.

Eloszor is, az allatok itt nem tudnak vedekezni; nem szabadna a joravalo
allatvilagot Elek Gaborral valo osszehasonlitassal beszennyezni.

Masodszor, oriasi sertes a "nulla" ellen ha barki Elek Gabor-felekkel teszi
a zerot egyenlove! A nulla az egy artatlan, semleges szam.

Nevezzuk ezeket magyar nevukon: EZEK BUNOZOK!

Peter Kovalszki  > wrote:

>I agree with You, nor the size- or the lack of-  taxes( or general 
>economic contribution, etc. to the national economy) should be the 
>criteria for voting rights, neither your residing actually in the 
>country. That should be based on citizenship,and having that on legal 
>status, age, etc., as it is.That is for the Hungarian parliament, 
>constitution, etc. to determine, and for the proper institutions to 
>verify. 

Well, I'm afraid it determined it in the negative already.

>My point was about Hungarianness( magyarsag)- which should not be based 
>on citizenship, or residency in the country, or voting in Hungarian 
>elections, etc.

Well, determining "Hungarianness" is impossible in a vacuum.  You have
to set the context first and depending on what it is, your definition
may vary.  Citizenship is only in the context of law.
But beyond that, definitions will also vary depending who is doing it.
I don't even like to get into something as futile as that.  Generally,
when one talks to likeminded people they do understand the term the same
way and no definition is needed. 

> And yes, my name is Polish, but You may realize, that it 
>is not spelled in the conventional Polish way( no w, and with sz,etc). 

Well, that's obvious that the spelling was changed to comply with the
Hungarian spelling.  "Kowalski" is the original version and your
ancestors probably had some minor nobility, something akin to the
Hungarian "kisnemes", only it was a lot more common in Poland than in
Hungary.

>My forth-grade ancestor on my father's side escaped Poland in 1863 after 
>the unsuccessful Warsaw uprising against the Russians, fled fo 
>Transylvania(that time Habsburg empire) and married a Hungarian( 
>Szekely) girl, and was assimilated into Hungarian; that initial turn 

A perfect story to illustrate the traditional Polish-Hungarian
friendship.  I hope you know at least SOME Polish.  Many Hungarians
without ANY Polish background do.

>and here I am debating the question of 
>Hungarianness , on the Internet, in the US of A. Isn't that great?! And 
>You: directly from the gently rolling, civilized pannon hills and 
>fields?  PK

Heh heh heh!  I think there are a few here who would disagree with you
on attaching the word "civilized" to "pannon". ;-)

Joe

Wally Keeler > wrote:
>
>Given what you guys have been flushing downstream to them the past 1,000
>years or so, can you blame them?

So you did swallow some of their propoganda after all!
Wally, Wally, I thought you knew better.

Joe

> (Wally Keeler) wrote:
 (Gabor Barsai) drafted:
-)Attention! All rise! Order is now called by the great grandiose
-)dictator-for-life, the ruler supreme,
-)the fearless, the brave, the held-high-in-esteem,
-)Walllllllly the bold! Yes, stand up and hail
-)his humbleness now! May his wisdom prevail!
-)
-)Three cheers for first lady, the really witty
-)Brigi, the delight of all cognoscenti!
-)She's savvy! She has a prodigious IQ,
-)and lots of panache, as all ladies do!
-)In her fancy chapeau, she's a leader with taste!
-)May her orders be heeded and her views be embraced!
-
-Now we are getting somewhere. This has wit and humour. I tip my hat. Although
-we are not talking first class here, this one was measurable on the Dichter
-Scale. [Think Deutch: dicht]. Didn't make it into the red, but the needle 
-moved significantly. Sure puts that politically-correct tight-ass Gyorgy 
-KoVACUOUS into perspective, not to mention that pre-med student majoring in
-PoorPoorPoor 101, watzernam, Annal Smith.

For Wally Keeler, I dedicate this bit of fun:

The camera pans a scattered cloudy sky; a voiceover says:
     "Faster than a speeding zinger
     More powerful than a fekete vonat
     Able to leap tall tales in a single joke"
Assorted voices:
     "Look!
     Up in the sky!
     It's a word!
     It's a verb!
     No!
     It's Stupendouswit!!!!"

For the origanal Annal Smith, I dedicate this version:

The camera pans an empty mall parking lot; a voiceover says:
     "Slower than a fly in amber
     Weaker than American beer
     Able to here-I-am on a single "chick"
Assorted voices:
     "Look!
     Down in the pit!
     It's debris!
     It's toxic!
     Yes!
     It's Ms Taken Iden Titty!!!!"

> (Wally Keeler) wrote:
> (Brigitta Bali) wrote;
[:> (Wally Keeler) wrote:
[: (Gabor Barsai) drafted:
[:-)Attention! All rise! Order is now called by the great grandiose
[:-)dictator-for-life, the ruler supreme,
[:-)the fearless, the brave, the held-high-in-esteem,
[:-)Walllllllly the bold! Yes, stand up and hail
[:-)his humbleness now! May his wisdom prevail!
[:-)
[:-)Three cheers for first lady, the really witty
[:-)Brigi, the delight of all cognoscenti!
[:-)She's savvy! She has a prodigious IQ,
[:-)and lots of panache, as all ladies do!
[:-)In her fancy chapeau, she's a leader with taste!
[:-)May her orders be heeded and her views be embraced!
[:-
[:-Now we are getting somewhere. This has wit and humour. I tip my hat. 
[:-Although we are not talking first class here, this one was measurable on
[:-the Dichter Scale. [Think Deutch: dicht]. Didn't make it into the red, 
[:-but the needle moved significantly. Sure puts that politically-correct 
[:-tight-ass Gyorgy KoVACUOUS into perspective, not to mention that pre-med
[:-student majoring in PoorPoorPoor 101, watzernam, Annal Smith.
[:
[:For Wally Keeler, I dedicate this bit of fun:
[:
[:The camera pans a scattered cloudy sky; a voiceover says:
[:     "Faster than a speeding zinger
[:     More powerful than a fekete vonat
[:     Able to leap tall tales in a single joke"
[:Assorted voices:
[:     "Look!
[:     Up in the sky!
[:     It's a word!
[:     It's a verb!
[:     No!
[:     It's Stupendouswit!!!!"
[:
[:For the origanal Annal Smith, I dedicate this version:
[:
[:The camera pans an empty mall parking lot; a voiceover says:
[:     "Slower than a fly in amber
[:     Weaker than American beer
[:     Able to here-I-am on a single "chick"
[:Assorted voices:
[:     "Look!
[:     Down in the pit!
[:     It's debris!
[:     It's toxic!
[:     Yes!
[:     It's Ms Taken Iden Titty!!!!"
[
[Brigitta, my love, you've already achieved your Poetic Licence. Why do you
[want to take your Oath of Offence* again?
[
[           *"I swear to post Poetic
[             wholly Poetic
[             and nothing but Poetic
[             so help me Poetofi!"

Aren't you being a little bit too dipoematic my dear? Don't forget our
allegiance to the territorial imperative of the Policy of Poetry
Proliferation.

In article >
Hermes1,  writes:
>Precisely, this is what I meant !
>
>>Foreign direct.investment
>>   cumulative (9/95 bn $)            10               1,4
>>   in 1995  (bn $)                1,041               0.07
>
>Now, think ! Someday, in the very near future, it will be time to pay
>the fiddler. All that money that was lent and invested in Hungary needs
>to be repaid at an interest, or repatriated at a profit, whatever the case.

No, it is wrong conclusion. This money is not loan but investment.
The investors have these assets as property. If they want to with-
draw, it is their personal problem. 

Which could cause problem is not on this table, the gov't's debt
which is app 33 bn $. The larger part of it is inner debt, which
is above 20 bn. This sum was borrowed from Hungarian banks.

AFAIK, the Romanian external debt now exceeds 5 bn $. This is
the dangerous tendency, because you did not have (or just very
minimal) debt in the early nineties. ( Our external debt seems
stabilized and increased very little in the last few years.)

Tamas

In article > Wally Keeler,
 writes:
>He's been that way before.
>
>|The suicide rates increased together with the Hungarian living standard.
>
>Is this a recent phenomenon? Or is it historical? Were there records of any
>sort on suicide in previous centuries?

The boom started after '56, together with the guyasch-communism.
There were before some regions in Hungary where the sucide rate
were high, but they were isolated places.

Unfortunaltely I can not give you the statistics. It were around
here once and i was stupid enough not to save it. 

>|Right now I tend to agree with the opinion of Hamvas Béla, that beside
>|many other things, we have too many, five, characteristic and conflicting
>|life strategies (he calls them geniuses) in a small place which is tough
>|to reconcile. In the Carpathian basin you may find the next ones: latin,
>|north, west-european, asian/east and transilvanian. It can be a disastrous
>|mixture.

>I am not steeped in the Hungarian geniuses. Could you elaborate?

I felt that the word 'genius' would casue misunderstanding. It also
sounds strange in Hungarian but the guy called it that way, I can't
help . I had looked the word up in the dictionary and left the word
unchanged because it seemed to me that at least in English it has
that connotation which was meant and missing from Hungarian.
I guess Hamvas derived it from the Latin genius loci. 

You may not know the nordic, east and transilvanian geniuses but
I am sure you know a lot, at least of the geniuses of south and west.
Just compare the Italian and German way of living. They are diffe-
rent, those people have different mentality, life strategy, beliefs,
goals, culture, etc. etc.  Luckily they don't have to live in one
country. (Well, in Switzerland they do, and manage somehow but
there are coflicts. In Zürich you may say such graffities that
"Italienische Sweine raus" and in Ticino the Italians just refuse
to understand any German word which can be hell for a Hungarian.)

I don't want to improvise, so I'll rather read the revelant parts again
in the book this night,  and try to write something tomorrow. The im-
provistaion with my Hunglish together would possibly result
something *very* different from the original text.  :-) 

Tamas

In article >,  () wrote:
>Nem tudom, hogy a mellekelt levelek egyediek, vagy pedig ebbe a
>hircsoportba kuldott cikkek masolatai (nalam ugyanis a hircsoportok eleg
>nagy kesessel futnak be), de mindenesetre az kuldo megerdemli a
>szelloztetest.  
>
[...]
Ebben az esetben teljesen egyet kell ertenem. Az illeto a bunkok legrosszabb 
fajtajabol valo. Egyszeruen kemeny anyagi erdek altal strapalodott le az agya.
Ennel meg a nemzeti hate-mail is jobb.:)
Benne lennek egy jo kis agyonpostazasban ha meg lehet valahogy biztonsagosan 
oldani.


Szaszvari Peter
(http://iap11.ethz.ch/users/szp/szp.htm)

In article >,
   Agnes Ruzsovics > wrote:
>Ez egy probalevel.
>
Ez egy probavalasz :)

> (Brigitta Bali) wrote:
> (Wally Keeler) wrote:
> (Brigitta Bali) wrote:
=[:> (Wally Keeler) wrote:
=[: (Gabor Barsai) drafted:
=[:-)Attention! All rise! Order is now called by the great grandiose
=[:-)dictator-for-life, the ruler supreme,
=[:-)the fearless, the brave, the held-high-in-esteem,
=[:-)Walllllllly the bold! Yes, stand up and hail
=[:-)his humbleness now! May his wisdom prevail!
=[:-)
=[:-)Three cheers for first lady, the really witty
=[:-)Brigi, the delight of all cognoscenti!
=[:-)She's savvy! She has a prodigious IQ,
=[:-)and lots of panache, as all ladies do!
=[:-)In her fancy chapeau, she's a leader with taste!
=[:-)May her orders be heeded and her views be embraced!
=[:-
=[:-Now we are getting somewhere. This has wit and humour. I tip my hat. 
=[:-Although we are not talking first class here, this one was measurable
=[:-on the Dichter Scale. [Think Deutch: dicht]. Didn't make it into the
=[:-red, but the needle moved significantly. Sure puts that politically-
=[:-correct tight-ass Gyorgy KoVACUOUS into perspective, not to mention
=[:-that pre-med student majoring in PoorPoorPoor 101, watzernam, Annal
=[:-Smith.
=[:
=[:For Wally Keeler, I dedicate this bit of fun:
=[:
=[:The camera pans a scattered cloudy sky; a voiceover says:
=[:     "Faster than a speeding zinger
=[:     More powerful than a fekete vonat
=[:     Able to leap tall tales in a single joke"
=[:Assorted voices:
=[:     "Look!
=[:     Up in the sky!
=[:     It's a word!
=[:     It's a verb!
=[:     No!
=[:     It's Stupendouswit!!!!"
=[:
=[:For the origanal Annal Smith, I dedicate this version:
=[:
=[:The camera pans an empty mall parking lot; a voiceover says:
=[:     "Slower than a fly in amber
=[:     Weaker than American beer
=[:     Able to here-I-am on a single "chick"
=[:Assorted voices:
=[:     "Look!
=[:     Down in the pit!
=[:     It's debris!
=[:     It's toxic!
=[:     Yes!
=[:     It's Ms Taken Iden Titty!!!!"
=[
=[Brigitta, my love, you've already achieved your Poetic Licence. Why do
=[you want to take your Oath of Offence* again?
=[
=[           *"I swear to post Poetic
=[             wholly Poetic
=[             and nothing but Poetic
=[             so help me Poetofi!"
=
=Aren't you being a little bit too dipoematic my dear? Don't forget our
=allegiance to the territorial imperative of the Policy of Poetry
=Proliferation.

A tip o' the top hat =[ to ya darlin'. What a pARTner!

-- 
Wally Keeler					Poetry
Creative Intelligence Agency			is
Peoples Republic of Poetry			Poetency

 (Gyorgy Kovacs)wrote:
:In article >,
:Brigitta Bali > wrote:
:>:Don't tell me the Vilage Idiot is getting married. And of all people...
:>:to himself! [herself]!
:>:DR. LASZLO
:>
:>I'd have no compatibility problems then would I.
:>Do you remember when the village square was a place and not a person.
:
:I hope Wally noticed: that's village-squire Brigi!
:
Nothing to notice Gayorgy. The squire root of nothing is still nothing,
which, in the end, is why you are regarded as VACUOUS.

Szervusz Susan,
     
     I am an American born Hungarian as well, searching for people of my 
     culture.  I speak Hungarian quite well.
     
     If I meet your qualifications, please send me an E-Mail at:
     
     
     
     Udv,
     
                - Pal.
     
     
     
     


______________________________ Reply Separator ________________________________
_
Subject: SCM: pen pal
Author:   at Internet
Date:    4/10/96 8:14 PM


   Hi!
     
   I am an American/Hungarian, and unfortunately, I was not brought up
speaking the language.  I have a book called "Teach Yourself Hungarian" by 
Zsuzsa Pontifex, however, I think that the best way to learn a language is 
if it is spoken (or in this case,...written).  Therefore, if there is any 
brave soul out there who is interested in conversing in Hungarian/English, 
please let me know!  
     
Thanks,
Susan
     
======= The following has been added by the mailer software =======
     
subs/unsubs info - mailto: 
digest - mailto:

In article >,
Wally Keeler > wrote:
>|found. For some reason, which I am not able to understand, there is a
>|tendency to take everything personally.
>
>"For some reason" "for some reason" Obviously you are not able to
>understand.

My goodness, aren't you clever today?

>So your statement above is not distinctive to Hungary. It is common in
>virtually all societies.

I don't think so. I find that Hungarians dwell on garbage like that for a
longer time. This is IMHO. Unlike you, I reserve the right to be wrong. It's a
heavenly feeling.

>|Look at Horthy or Antall, the last and first independent political leaders
>|(let's not mention the communists who took everything personally, anybody
>|who was against them was liquidated, and who weren't independent in
>|political life).
>
>Petty bureaucraps exist in all societies.

But these guys were the political leadership, not petty bureaucrats.

>You are in part what you post. I'm a smart-assed, insolent, creative wit
>type. You lean towards the banal and bland. It's not an opinion; it's a

If you define creative as yourself, I'm only glad I'm not creative. You're not
a smart ass, but simply an ass. I don't find a wordscraper creative; stupid,
yes, but not creative.
You scolded Anna: "Remedial Reading, you need" - yet you post I dreamt of being
a "sopranno". I wonder where you read that? Is that part of your creativity?
One standard for you, one for the rest of the world?
No wonder Canadians are so, so inferior to their great neighbor (or neighbour,
for ya guys) to the south. (Although, I do like Toronto, the Needlepoint,
Ontario Place, ROM, the Science Centre).

Gabor

In article >,  (Ferenc Istvan
Vaski) wrote:

>  (T. M. Lutas) wrote:
> 
> >In article >, Paul > wrote:
> 
> >> they're a minority and stop trying to segregate themselves. IF NOT, THEY 
> >> SHOULD GET THE HELL OUT OF ROMANIA AND GO TO HUNGARY WHERE THEY BELONG!!! 
> 
> ...they already ARE where they belong...in the truest sense of the
> word...your people are the interlopers....
> 
> >> THEY CAN TAKE THE GYPSIES WITH THEM IF THEY WANT!!!! ROMANIA IS GONNA BE A
 
> >> BETTER PLACE TO LIVE IN IF ALL THE FUCKING GYPSIES GET OUT
> 
> ....I think anywhere that you AREn't  is the better place to be....
> 
> >I don't know. The Amish work out pretty well as a segregated society. If
> >Hungarians wish to take an equivalent hit in living standards that is their
> >choice. The problem lies in hungarians wanting the benefits of both 
> >segregation (retaining all culture) and integration (normal standard of 
> >living). It just isn't possible without declaring your own country or unitin
g
> >with mother Hungary.
> 
> ....the benefits?...unbelievable the machinations of some minds...how
> absolutely terrible....to want to retain your culture...!!!

People who don't integrate to the point where they do not even speak the
language of the country are obviously going to have reduced employment
possibilities. This isn't a consequence of bad faith on anybody's part. It
is just a fact that many jobs require the use of the language of the country.
A smaller job pool than necessary is obviously going to reduce the median
standard of living.

Retaining your culture is a life choice. Integrating into the surrounding
culture is a life choice. Both choices have benefits and disadvantages.
Everybody who is a minority gets to make these choices (or their parents
do it for them). I don't think that one choice is better than the other.
Again, the Amish are a splendid example of a peaceful coexistance of two
separate cultures living side by side with little assimilation. They have
been doing so for 100+ years. No Amish expects to get as rich as they could
if they were to assimilate. They made a choice consciously and stand perfectly
willing to take the consequences of that choice. 

What I was talking about (and you seem to have completely missed the point)
was the seeming unwillingness of some transylvanian hungarians to live up 
to the necessary negative consequences of any of the lifestyle choices that 
are available to a minority anywhere.

How do I know about this? I'm a romanian in the US. I understand it because
I have the same choices facing me.

> >As for the gypsies, the least that we could do is stop taking them back for
> >money. When Germany has an unwanted gypsy where do they send them? Romania.
> >We shouldn't be the dumping ground of Europe for its gypsy problem. I don't
> >like any government that takes money for the movement of people across 
> >borders whether it's to move them out or to move them in. For those gypsies
> >that aren't thieves, aren't criminals of other types I say welcome and try
> >to integrate. This would still leave us with a sizeable gypsy population
> >since I don't believe that anything more than a small minority are criminals
.
> 
> >It's been studied to death the large number of crimes that a small number
> >of people can commit. 1 or 2% of a community can create such a crime wave
> >that everywhere people are convinced that criminals are ubiquitous and
> >society is lost. The key is locking up these habitual predators (yes
> >Oali, predators) and keeping the rest of us safe.

> .....what a grand vision you possess....F.I.V.

Your point please? Do you find it unreasonable that I don't want to take 
more gypsy criminals into Romania than are absolutely necessary? Or do you
find flesh peddling to be somehow morally attractive? Or do you believe 
that all gypsies must be thieves, vagabonds, and other undesireables? 
I would be interested in hearing your beliefs and the evidence to back them
up.

DB

-- 
Romanian Political Pages now are available
http://haven.ios.com/~dbrutus

C'mon Anna, get creative. Is this all you can deliver? A bland petty
complaint? C'mon, sling a metaphor or two at me. Give us a presentation
with some wit and humour. C'mon.

Anna Smith wrote:
|If you hadn't of helped cultivate it then there wouldn't be such an 
|abundance now would there?  Poor Wallace.  Seems he just can't let go...

On Fri, 12 Apr 1996, Wally Keeler wrote:

>                    ATTENTION SHOPPERS
>                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>           SPRING SALE ON GARDEN FERTILIZERS

[creativity snipped for brevity]
-- 
Wally Keeler					Poetry
Creative Intelligence Agency			is
Peoples Republic of Poetry			Poetency

Anna Smith wrote:
|Bacon, how cute!  LOLOL  Ah, spring and seventh grade revisited.  
|Although, I seem to remember seventh graders as being much more creative 
|than our resident pseudo poet ...LOLOLOLOL

We don't see one iota of creativity coming from the dried up dumb cunt that
you are. You are obviously creatively-challenged. 

Pseudo-poet? You are way out of your league here toots. You just joined the
ranks of Gyorgy KoVACUOUS. Sorry babe, I've already established poetic
credentials, established by my peers. When you have established your
credentials after graduating med school, then you can give out
prescriptions, but until then, you are a mere student. When you have
established your creative credentials, then perhaps you can comment on the
pseudo-poet, but until then, you belong to the league of the bland and
banal, which makes you Ms Average. 

|On Fri, 12 Apr 1996, Wally Keeler reverted to his prepubescent and most 
|favorite time of life:

Damn right! I avoid your type of maturity like the plague. I nurture the
child within me. 

> On March 27, while trolling for an easy spring fling, Goober Barfsai sent
> out this moose mating call:
> |^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^|
> |o In >                   o|
> |o 27 Mar 1996, Gabor Barsai wrote:                                  o|
> |o > Are there any chicks reading this newsgroup? (Beside Marina...) o|
> |o                                                                   o|
> |/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
> 
> Answering to the call of "Here, chick, chick, chick", We have the self-
> respecting appearance of one panting Anna Smith, who, in all likelihood
> would also answer to "Here broad, broad, broad".
> |^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^|
> |o In >  o|
> |o Mon, 1 Apr 1996 Enike > wrote:      o|
> |o Sure are!                                                         o|
> |o Anna                                                              o|
> |o                                                                   o|
> \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
> 
> Sooooooooiiiiiiiii!
>                      Sooooooooiiiiiiiii!
>                                           Sooooooooiiiiiiiii!
> 
> "oink! oink! Here I am."
> 
> Go get her Goober studmuffin; sizzle the bacon, meathead.
> -- 
> Wally Keeler                     Poetry
> Creative Intelligence Agency               is
> Peoples Republic of Poetry            Poetency
-- 
Wally Keeler					Poetry
Creative Intelligence Agency			is
Peoples Republic of Poetry			Poetency

Anna Smith, still in a snorgasm after all these years:
|zzzzzzzzzzz

On Sat, 13 Apr 1996, Wally Keeler wrote:
>                             (
>    (                                                     )
>              )               )
>     )                       (           )                         (
> The(smell of(Goober's post on)ce it is in the atmosphere:(
>   ((                        ((         (      (                    )
>    ))       )      (         ))         )                )        (
>   ((       (                (((        ((      )        (          ))
>   )))      ))       )       ))))    )   ))    (          )        ((
>  ((((     ((   )   (   )   (((((   (   ((         )     ((    )   )))
> In > on 11 Apr))1996  ((((
>  (Gabor Barsai) wrote: (((      )))))
> Mating call? I just asked if there were any chicks reading the ng, since
> there was too much name-calling going on, and I thought I may lighten up
> the discussions. Whatever you read into it is up to you. I wasn't aware of
> the fact that you use it to mate with moose. (So tell us, what's it like,
> eh?) BTW, I'm sure Ms. Bali is offended that you equate chicks (ie. cute
> women with a personality) with moose.I think the misunderstanding comes
> from the fact that Ms. Bali equated chicks with fluff-chicks (ie. like >
> women on the popular show "Crotchwatch"). Gabor (ooooooooooopps, I mean
> Goober) aka. Bird Jaguar, Lord of the Mayas at Yaxchilan
-- 
Wally Keeler					Poetry
Creative Intelligence Agency			is
Peoples Republic of Poetry			Poetency

In article >,
Brigitta Bali > wrote:
>:Don't tell me the Vilage Idiot is getting married. And of all people...
>:to himself! [herself]!
>:DR. LASZLO
>
>I'd have no compatibility problems then would I.
>Do you remember when the village square was a place and not a person.

I hope Wally noticed: that's village-squire Brigi!

I am forwarding this, as possibly of passing interest (since we had the
dubious distinction of cjames dumping on s.c.m among other s.c.*). Don't
worry, I am not going to post further about this deranged individual ;-< -
interested readers should visit his home group alt.usenet.kooks. 

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 11 APR 1996 07:44:51 UTC 
From: USENET HUMOR ADMINISTRATION >
Newgroups: comp.lang.ada, comp.lang.eiffel, comp.lang.basic.misc,
    comp.databases, soc.culture.russian, soc.culture.soviet,
    soc.culture.jewish, comp.databases.theory, comp.databases.informix,
    comp.databases.object
Subject: Colin James III Frequently Asked Questions 


           COLIN JAMES III FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS (AND ANSWERS)

         This FAQ will be reposted monthly to relevant USENET groups.


Q1: Who is Colin James III?

A1: KotM Winner January 1996 - Colin James III )

      (from http://www.wetware.com/mlegare/kotm/winnersk96.html)

Colin James III, anti-stukach, creator of BSAM, one-man harrasment
squad...  What can you say about him, this anti-stukach (stukach
being Russian for "informer") claimed that he had created the BSAM
sort alogorithm, got challenged on it, demonstrated a tenuous (at
best) grasp of the basic concepts and perfromance of BSAM, then
launched into a vigourous campaign to impign all of his "enemies"
(which, to the best of my knowledge meant anyone who mentions his
name) by emailing, faxing, calling and otherwise alerting his
"enemies" employers, ISPs, and (in the case of government employees)
the Inspector General of the United States of America to naughty
behavior (reading rec.nude, corssposting to more than three
newsgroups) in the apparent hopes of costing someone his or her job,
account, or SOMETHING... I really have no idea what.

Colin has (as of last report) set up an autoresponder to tell anyone
who sends him email that "Colin is no longer accepting email to this
account". However, he/his sysadmin/SOMEONE keeps quoting the
so-called "ignored" email messages to the senders' sysadmin, boss,
the IG etc.

Colin won with an AMAZING number of votes (182!), making him the
Most-Voted-For KotM nominee in the history of the award (at least
under my term of office - Jan 1995 - Jan 1996).

Q2: What this Kook business is about?

A2: Every month since April 1994 (with a short haitus in Nov-Dec
1994), the readers of alt.usenet.kooks have nominated and voted for a
Kook of the Month. This award is intended to recognize great
achievements in the field of kookery, although (disclaimer) no
psychological diagnosis is intended or implied by the award; the fact
that a group of net.posters think that someone's ideas are bizarre
does not imply that that person is mentally disturbed in a clinical
sense.

Look at this excellent Web page: http://www.wetware.com/mlegare/kotm/KotM.html


Q3: Why is this FAQ posted here?

A2: Because Colin James had fun in your group lying about BSAM (see
below) and harassing other people.


Q4: HELP!!! Colin James sent 150 nasty faxes to my boss and human 
resources department because of my USENET posts!!! He demands that
I be fired. Will I be fired?

A4: Most probably no. He has complained to employers of at least 90
people in the last six or seven months, and no one (to our best
knowledge) of his victims has been fired. If you know that Colin goes
after you, talk to your boss immediately. Show him/her this FAQ and
print out relevant materials from the Kook Page, and you should be OK.


Q5: HELP!!! I am a big boss, and never read USENET. Today some freak
called me, said me that my employee abuses my corporate resources,
libels some very important company called CEC Services, and said that
if I do not fire this employee immediately, CEC Services will initiate
a legal action against us. What to do?

A5: Stay calm. The caller is most likely to be Colin James III, or,
as he calls himself, The Right Reverend Colin James III, Principal
Scientist. He is a known nut with a hobby to harass his opponents.
USENET users elected him Kook of the Month in January'96 for his
bizarre habit of harassing anyone who mentions his name.

Colin James is LYING. He will not sue your company. This is his trick
for getting people in trouble. In fact, in March he promised several
lawsuits to be filed "next week", however none of them has been ever
been really filed.  CEC Services is a one man shop operating from Colin
James' residence, so Colin James is a Principal Scientist and principal
everything in his tiny operation.

Stop any contacts with him immediately. If he finds that you are not
listening, he will shut up.


Q6: HELP!!! I am an Internet user and today in the morning I got
a phone call asking that I cease and desist posting to USENET. What
to do?

A6: This is Colin James. Immediately hang up. Lift the receiver again
and press *57 (it initiates call trace). Call the police and report a
harassing phone call likely from Colin James. Fill them with details.
Make sure that they stay on the case.


Q7: Colin James promises to sue me. What's going to happen?

A7: Nothing. COLIN JAMES IS LYING AS USUAL. He promised to sue several
people "within a week or so", and no one heard about these lawsuits 
thereafter.

The reason why he does not sue his "enemies" is that his claims are
frivolous (have no legal substance) and are likely to result in a
summary judgment not in his favor. He is obviously not rich enough
to afford paying an attorney on a non-contingency basis.

#Date: Sun, 03 Mar 1996 06:58:54 GMT
#         ^^^^^^^^
#Subject: Re: Has anyone actually received any legal papers from CJ3?
#Path: ...!lll-winken.llnl.gov!news.larc.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov
#!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu
#!newsfeed.internetmci.com!dimensional.com!news
#From:  (The Right Reverend Colin James III)
#Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
#
#
#| Or are his rantings without any legal substance?
#|             dave
#
#Don't worry Dave, you're not left out.  You're on the list too.  We
#plan to be in court next week.

#Date: Mon, 04 Mar 1996 05:10:29 GMT
#         ^^^^^^^^
#Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
#Subject: Has anyone actually received any legal papers from CJ3?
#Path: ...!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net
#!newsfeed.internetmci.com!mr.net!winternet.com!dimensional.com!news
#
#Ronald Cole ,  (The
#Pinhead)) wrote:
#
#"How about posting the Court and case number?  I want to file an
#amicus curiae brief that contains harassing posts like this one of
#yours."
#
#Ronald, while I don't know you, fortunately, I can tell you it is US
#Federal District Court for a hearing, and I am hoping for a lady judge
#there who went to Harvard Law School and who particularly disdains
#pinheads and software architects, both of which you claim to be.
#Maybe you can get your swell pal and buddy Gary McKee, 111 W Freemont
#Ave, Littleton, CO 80120-4290, to call the clerks and show up in^H^H
#with your briefs.

Needless to say, his threats never materialized.


Q8: What is BSAM that Colin James claims to have invented?

A8: Allegedly, it is a fast method of indexing data. Nobody knows for
sure. TRRCJ3 refuses to give out any information about workings of BSAM.
On some occasions he was giving self-contradicting or outright stupid
information about BSAM and its performance.

From his post four months ago: 

Subject: Re: [++] [$$] Re: Desperately seeking BSAM

>.                Comparisons                Moves
>.          Sta-  =====================      =========================
>
>Component  ble   Min      Avg      Max      Min      Avg      Max
>========== ==-   ======-  ======-  ======-  ======-  ======-  ======-
>heap_sort  No    n log n  n log n  n log n  n log n  n log n  n log n
>quick_sort No    n log n  n log n  n^2      n log n  n log n  n^2
>radix_sort No    n log n  n log n  n^2      n log n  n log n  n^2
>BSAM       No                                                 n+ n^0.5
^^^^^^                                                        ^^^^^^^^^^
> ================================================================
          Any computer science student knows that complexity
          (n + n^0.5) makes no sense.

Sometimes he claims that BSAM is 10 times faster than B-trees, sometimes
that it is only four times faster.

The only thing that you can be sure about BSAM is, if you criticize it,
Colin James will demand your employer that you be fired (See Q4-Q6)
and will threaten to sue you. He is lying and will not sue you.


Q9: Why he calls himself The Right Reverend (and on some occasions bishop)?

A9: Nobody knows why, just as nobody knows what BSAM really is.
What everybody _does_ know, however, is that he has no church and no
followers. But if it is more pleasant for him to call himself Reverend,
why not? We all have freedom of speech and religion after all.


Q10: I sent an email to Colin, but it bounced back saying that Colin
James does not read mail. Isn't it weird? 

A10: Colin James is lying again. He does read email that is sent to him.
Be more or less sure that he will repost your mail or complain to your
sysadmin about "criminal harassment" of his precious person. It has been
proven on numerous occasions, in comp.lang.ada and comp.lang.eiffel 
for example.


Q11: So, what should we all do? 

A11: Nothing. Just laugh at him.

--
 Zoli , keeper of <http://hix.mit.edu/hungarian-faq/>;
 <'finger '> 
 NOTE: spamsters and bulk emailers see 'X-Policy*:' in the 
header for the charges to be imposed for net abuse!

KC2: Dudley+ (Grubor+)*2 (Fomin+++)/3 (cjames++)*3 
     Iatskovski- (Petersen--)/2

SELLERS BEWARE: I will never buy anything from companies associated
with inappropriate online advertising (unsolicited commercial email,
excessive multiposting etc), and discourage others from doing so too!

Hermes1 > wrote:



>On Sun, 14 Apr 1996, Ferenc Istvan Vaski wrote:


>RE: TRANSYLVANIA BELONGS TO HUNGARY !
>From:  (Ferenc Istvan Vaski)

>>.....Really?....No...Transylvania is Magyar...and always
>>will be....no matter what type of "pogroms" or "relocation"
>>or "cleansing" is
>>manifested on it......if not even one living ,breathing
>>Magyar walks on it's surface....Transylvania's soul will always
>>remain Magyar...
>>you can twist and adjust figures,treaties  et al...as much
>>as you want.

>I  was going to leave this can of worms unopened, if not for
>the  bitter  and poisonous overflow of the content  of  some
>autistic  minds. I am talking acute memory challenged  minds
>here.

....the only acutely challenged mind here is yours....

>Let   me   remind   you  that  Hungarian  governments   have
>traditionally  shown much more aptitude for the  conduct  of
>"pogroms",   "relocations"   and   last   but   not    least
>"cleansings".

.....remind away.....and when you are done we can start
*reminding* you ........

>Unlike some of the intentionally misguided individuals  that
>claim  to present the truth on this issue from the Hungarian
>side,   I   will  confine  my  writings  to  the  verifiable
>experience of my family in the city of "Nagyvarad".


>Let's start with "pogroms" and "relocations". The last  time
>a  Hungarian  government came to take control of "Nagyvarad"
>was right after the infamous "Viena  Diktat".

>At  the time, my grandfather, was working as a civil servant
>for  the Romanian revenue services. He decided to leave  the
>area  before  the  Hungarian government  took  control,  not
>because he was worried about his personal safety but because
>it  was  clear  that  he  will have no  livelihood  under  a
>Hungarian administration
>He was also a perfect example of the forced magyarization of
>names,  he went by the name of Vasadi, born in the  entirely
>Romanian  village of Sintandrei, as a child he did not  even
>speak Hungarian.

>Soon  after he left into an uncertain future  with his  wife
>and  small daughter, a Hungarian administration took control
>of the city.
>The  only  funny  part is that his wife was  Hungarian,  and
>spoke no Romanian at all.
>She  was  from  the  Forgacs family, they built  the  oldest
>standing Hungarian church in town.
>Yet she chose to follow her husband, and was received very,
>very kindly wherever she went in Romania.

>Most   likely  at  the  urgings  of  extremist,  ugly,  sick
>individuals  very  much like yourself,  said  administration
>endorsed and conducted a "POGROM". They gathered most of the
>better  to  do and (or) better educated Romanians  and  some
>unfortunates  that were poor, but may have earned  someone's
>grudge.   Some  were  murdered  outright,  one  man  lynched
>downtown, in front of the theater.
>Most  of  the  other were loaded on to cattle  railcars,  and
>"RELOCATED" to Arad.  To add insult to injury, the  railcars
>were  smeared with human excrement, bearing messages to  the
>tune that Romania's `human refuse' is being returned....

>This  said, let me remind you of "cleansings".   At the time
>that   the   Hungarian  administration   took   control   of
>"Nagyvarad",  the  city had a majority population  that  was
>neither Hungarian nor Romanian. Over half the population was
>Jewish.

>Soon  the  cleansing  started. Teams  of  German  supervised
>Hungarian   zealots,   gathered   up   the   Jews.   Slowly,
>methodically,  they  were robbed, assaulted,  abused,  their
>homes looted and the people gathered in a "getto". Trainload
>by  trainload  they slowly took the way of the concentration
>camps, in an outrage that belongs amongst the "mother of all
>cleansings".

>>but anyone that seeks actual historical truth will always
>>come to the same conclusion....as I stated in my first
>>post....you have allowed  revisionist and objectified history
>>to reach a point where you actually believe it....
>>if you want to seek out truth then look
>>beyond what you have been force-fed for decades....

>Force-fed for decades ? I am afraid you are optimistic,  say
>centuries  !  Miron  Costin,  the  Moldovan  chronicler  was
>claiming  in  the XV th century, that Romanians "originated"
>from  Rome.   Way  before  Hungarian revisionist  historians
>started  this  controversy about our continued  presence  in
>Transylvania.


>>>It's been studied to death the large number of crimes
>>>that a small number of people can commit. 1 or 2% of a
>>>community can create such a crime wave
>>>that everywhere people are convinced that criminals are
>>>ubiquitous and society is lost. The key is locking up these
>>>habitual predators (yes Oali, predators) and keeping the rest
>>>of us safe.
>>>DB

>>.....what a grand vision you possess....F.I.V.

>I think the pot is calling the kettle black ! Hungarian
>governments have proven themselves much more adept at
>"pogroms", "relocations" and "cleansings", whenever the
>opportunity presented itself.


>m. cristian

.....amazing...now I have become an extremist,ugly ,sick individual....
perhaps you should look into Romanian behaviour in Hungary in
1919....and from 1920 to 1939...then we can discuss which pot is
calling the kettle black...you can blame people for being angry and
taking revenge after the treatment they endured after Trianon?....
you also are sorely lacking regarding holocaust information...perhaps
you should look into this area....also you seem to conveniently forget
the existence of Romanian Facists/Nazi's...as for the ancient
history...it has long been shown on several levels that Romanians are
late-comers to the area....try to broaden your reference
materials.....F.I.V.

Jol ismert dolgokat.  Lazar Gyorgy miniszterelnoksege alatt
voltak divatban ilyesmik.

Eloszor is, "kollektiv buntetest" kovetel, eltiltana a
"public.siliconvalley.com" minden egyes account tulajdonosat,
akar van benne liberalis rabbi, reformatus lelkesz, katolikus
pap, buzi cigany, vagy barki.

Pont ugy, mint amikor minden magyarnak, "bunos nepnek"
volt (?) eloirva kollektivan bunhodni nehany magyar esetleges
buntetteert! Most pl. buntetne azt a Katona Jeno lelkeszt is, aki zsido
magyarok tamogatasat igyekezett megnyerni avval, hogy felhozta
az ismert tenyt, a legtobb keleteuropai orszag eladta vagy eluzte a
zsidokat, mig a magyar menedeket adott.

Masodszor, Lazar Gyorgy miniszterelnoksege alatt begyakorolt
reflex, hogy cenzort kialt, aki sertve erzi magat - mintha azaltal
hogy valamit nem mondhatnak ki, akkor az nem lenne teny.

Aczel Gyorgyhoz ment a cenzorert kialtas annak idejen.
Csakhogy most itt nincs cenzor, nincs Aczel Gyorgy, es Lazar
Gyorgy sem jott meg vissza miniszterelnoksegbe (legalabb is
egyelore)! A HIX-en lehetne Cenzort! Higszjozsit! kialtani -
de itt mar azt sem lehet.

Szegeny George Lazar-ok - mikor is fogjak mindezt eszrevenni!

Istvan Szucs > wrote:
>
>Sure but that wsn't what we were talking about. I was
>explaining why Elek may not be guilty of anything. He may
>not know the original source and he may have obtained the
>letter legally. This is what I was saying.   

Well, I just stopped watching the CBS "60 Minutes" show and your
argument is very similar to the one Andy Rooney made fun of at the end
of the show.  Only he was talking about the Unabomber and OJ.

To paraphrase Andy,
"I know that Elek's previous obsession with Ilona is no proof that he had
anything to do with obtaining her private e-mail illegally, nor does his
announcement to Joe Pannon a few weeks ago that he knew about a letter
sent to him by Ilona.  It's also possible that Elek's recent disclosure
of that private communication from Ilona to Joe was just something he
stumbled into on his way to the forum.  However, you have to admit
that all these things put together make Elek highly suspect in the
mind of an average person."

(BTW, I know, Istvan, that you're NOT an average person.)

Well, Andy put it a lot better, and if you watched the show, you know
what I mean.

Joe

 (Gabor Barsai) drafted:
|Attention! All rise! Order is now called by the great grandiose
|dictator-for-life, the ruler supreme,
|the fearless, the brave, the held-high-in-esteem,
|Walllllllly the bold! Yes, stand up and hail
|his humbleness now! May his wisdom prevail!
|
|Three cheers for first lady, the really witty
|Brigi, the delight of all cognoscenti!
|She's savvy! She has a prodigious IQ,
|and lots of panache, as all ladies do!
|In her fancy chapeau, she's a leader with taste!
|May her orders be heeded and her views be embraced!

Now we are getting somewhere. This has wit and humour. I tip my hat.
Although we are not talking first class here, this one was measurable on
the Dichter Scale. [Think Deutch: dicht]. Didn't make it into the red, but
the needle moved significantly. Sure puts that politically-correct tight-
ass Gyorgy KoVACUOUS into perspective, not to mention that pre-med student
majoring in PoorPoorPoor 101, watzernam, Annal Smith.

BTW the proper term for "dictator-for-life" within the Peoples Republic of
Poetry is DICHTator. A wordscraper was constructed in dishonour of its
antithesis:

DIKTATOR
========

Constructed for the City Dedicated to the Dictatorial Death of Democracy.
Located in the Deutch ghetto.


        .                  +------------------------------------+
        |                  |       CONSTRUCTION MATERIALS       |
        o                  |                                    |
        0                  | TOT: dead                          |
        O                  |                                    |
       TOT                 | TAT: deed, act                     |
       TAT                 |                                    |
    DIKTOT                 | TATER: doer, perpetrator, culprit  |
    DIKTAT                 |                                    |
    DIKTOTOR               | DIKTATOR: dictator                 |
    DIKTATER               |                                    |
    DIKTATOR               | DIKTATUR: dictatorshit             |
    DIKTATUR               |                                    |
    DIKTATORT              | TATORT: scene of the crime         |
    DIKTORTUR              |                                    |
    DIKTYRANN              | TORTUR: torture                    |
    DUNGTATOR              |                                    |
    DUNGTOTOR              | TYRANN: tyrant                     |
    DUNGTATER              |                                    |
    DUNGTATUR              | DUNG: manure, excrement, guvno,    |
    DUNGTATORT             | merde, sheib, shit, post-nutritive |
    DUNGTORTUR             | disposal substance                 |
    DUNGTYRANN             |                                    |
    DRECKTATOR             | DRECK: dirt, mud, excrement        |
    DRECKTOTOR             |                                    |
    DRECKTATER             +------------------------------------+
    DRECKTATUR
    DRECKTATORT
    DRECKTORTUR
    DRECKTYRANN
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

In Anglospeak I am POETICIAN1.

If you continue the good satire as indicated in your post, you will
certainly pass the examination for Poetic Licence. I wish you well.
-- 
Wally Keeler					Poetry
Creative Intelligence Agency			is
Peoples Republic of Poetry			Poetency

> (Brigitta Bali) wrote;
:> (Wally Keeler) wrote:
: (Gabor Barsai) drafted:
:-)Attention! All rise! Order is now called by the great grandiose
:-)dictator-for-life, the ruler supreme,
:-)the fearless, the brave, the held-high-in-esteem,
:-)Walllllllly the bold! Yes, stand up and hail
:-)his humbleness now! May his wisdom prevail!
:-)
:-)Three cheers for first lady, the really witty
:-)Brigi, the delight of all cognoscenti!
:-)She's savvy! She has a prodigious IQ,
:-)and lots of panache, as all ladies do!
:-)In her fancy chapeau, she's a leader with taste!
:-)May her orders be heeded and her views be embraced!
:-
:-Now we are getting somewhere. This has wit and humour. I tip my hat. 
:-Although we are not talking first class here, this one was measurable on
:-the Dichter Scale. [Think Deutch: dicht]. Didn't make it into the red, 
:-but the needle moved significantly. Sure puts that politically-correct 
:-tight-ass Gyorgy KoVACUOUS into perspective, not to mention that pre-med
:-student majoring in PoorPoorPoor 101, watzernam, Annal Smith.
:
:For Wally Keeler, I dedicate this bit of fun:
:
:The camera pans a scattered cloudy sky; a voiceover says:
:     "Faster than a speeding zinger
:     More powerful than a fekete vonat
:     Able to leap tall tales in a single joke"
:Assorted voices:
:     "Look!
:     Up in the sky!
:     It's a word!
:     It's a verb!
:     No!
:     It's Stupendouswit!!!!"
:
:For the origanal Annal Smith, I dedicate this version:
:
:The camera pans an empty mall parking lot; a voiceover says:
:     "Slower than a fly in amber
:     Weaker than American beer
:     Able to here-I-am on a single "chick"
:Assorted voices:
:     "Look!
:     Down in the pit!
:     It's debris!
:     It's toxic!
:     Yes!
:     It's Ms Taken Iden Titty!!!!"

Brigitta, my love, you've already achieved your Poetic Licence. Why do you
want to take your Oath of Offence* again?

            "I swear to post Poetic
             wholly Poetic
             and nothing but Poetic
             so help me Poetofi!"
-- 
Wally Keeler					Poetry
Creative Intelligence Agency			is
Peoples Republic of Poetry			Poetency

Nem tudom, hogy a mellekelt levelek egyediek, vagy pedig ebbe a
hircsoportba kuldott cikkek masolatai (nalam ugyanis a hircsoportok eleg
nagy kesessel futnak be), de mindenesetre az kuldo megerdemli a
szelloztetest.  

Azok, akik esetleg mar elfelejtettek mirol van szo, mivel eleg regen
volt, en eredetileg egy itt kb. feltucat kopiaban megjelent hirdetesre
tettem megjegyzest, semmiesetre sem olyan stilusban, mint azt az alabbi
"hate mail" indokolna:

From  Sun Apr 14 12:32:25 1996
Received: from mail.cdx.net ([204.101.129.6]) by halcyon.com with SMTP id AA294
99
  (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for >); Sun, 14 Apr 1996 12:32:
19 -0700
Received: from annex1-10.cdx.net (annex1-10.cdx.net [204.101.129.60]) by mail.c
dx.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA30128 for >;
 Sun, 14 Apr 1996 15:42:32 -0400
Message-Id: >
From:  (Leslie Elo)
To: 
Subject: Re: UJ MAGYAR TALALMANY !!!!!
Organization: CDX System, Inc.
Date: Sun, 14 Apr 96 14:29:35 GMT
Status: OR

>In article >, Lajos Laki > wrote:
>>
>>     Szabo Laszlo budapesti mernok nayszeru talalmanyt szabadalmaztatott az 
>>     elmult ev vegen.
>
>Jol van, eleg lett volna ezt egyszer is beirni.  Viszont a leirasbol ugy
>tunik, hogy egyszeruen egy szoftverrol van szo, amit itt alig szoktak
>talalmanynak nevezni.
>
>J. Pannon

Tisztelt Mr. KEKEC,

Mindenki aki szeretne valamilyen hirdetest kozze tenni az interneten
azokra vonatkozik, akit erdekel.
Ha teged nem erdekel ** NE ** usd bele azt a piszkos orrodat.

Megjegyzes:
	Amikor valaki hirdetest ad fel, neha vissza igazolasi problemak adodhatnak.
	pl. a hirdetes mar bennt van, csak a szerver nam adja vissza. 

Persze az az ember aki azzal szorakozik, hogy masnak a hirdeteset kritizalja
mit varsz tole. Ez szerintem reflektalja az IQ-dat.

Javaslat:
	Ha idegesitenek a dolgok (bar mi is az), akkor ** NE ** olvasd!

Gondolom TE olyan tipusu egyen ( ember az mar tulzas is lenne) vagy, aki
tudja, hogy ha beveri a fejet az faj, de azert beveri a'helyett, hogy kiverne!


Nem Teljes Tisztelettel,

Leslie Elo



From  Sun Apr 14 12:35:11 1996
Received: from mail.cdx.net ([204.101.129.6]) by halcyon.com with SMTP id AA296
34
  (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for >); Sun, 14 Apr 1996 12:35:
09 -0700
Received: from annex1-10.cdx.net (annex1-10.cdx.net [204.101.129.60]) by mail.c
dx.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA30134 for >;
 Sun, 14 Apr 1996 15:45:25 -0400
Date: Sun, 14 Apr 1996 15:45:25 -0400
Message-Id: >
X-Sender: 
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: 
From: Leslie Elo >
Subject: JERK
Status: OR

Na te Internet Rendor,

Nezz mar bele a NX-be ha van idod.
DE NE hogy mereszelj POST-olni valamit mert 
MEGTALALUNK.


TUDOD-e mi az FAQ. avagy FA Q.
Wow==>http://judge.cdx.net/~elo/elosoft.html 

> ----------------------------------------------

Csak tudnam honnan szabadulnak ki az ilyen bunkok odahaza?  Ismeri
kozuletek valaki ezt az Elo Laszlot?  Kozveszelyesrol van szo?

Pannon J.

In article >, 
(Istvan Szucs) writes:

>
>
How about making this into one of those "Tabloid" TV shows? Maybe we could
call it: "Tip toe through the tulips..with Ms.Vicki" or "What a tangled
www.we.weave.Ms.Ilona"
avagy a "Borzalom es a vide'ki komputer tolvaj..."

me

(leslie howard)says:
>What a team!
>I hear wedding bells!!!

 M. Erdos Pflieger wrote:
|I have the sneeking suspicion that they are one and the same people.
|What do you think?

 (Wally Keeler)
:You are very very close. 

Wrong. WE are very very close.

:The question is; which is the real one? 

We still haven't settle that issue yet have we?

:Perhaps both? Maybe we are pARTners. Hmmmmm

Resorting to diplomacy are we?

:I have published books of poetry. Check out the Metro Toronto Reference
:Library. WALKING ON THE GREENHOUSE ROOF, Delta Canada, 1969.
:
:I've published two other books under other pseudonyms. One was a book of
:prose-poetry entitled MY COMINGS, the other was entitled: 1ST NTRM RPORT
:OF TH CAUSS & MANIFESTATNS OF DVERGNT THINK PROCEDUR CONCERNNG TH 1ST 10
:YRS OF TH HISTRY OF TH PEOPLS RPUBLIC OF POETRY.

Oh yes, and I have published also. Lest they think there are not two
distinct people here. My most recent publication was a two volume set of
poetry and prosepoetry 1991 entitled: JELENEK KONYVE and ALOM_ELEN
published by Szepirodalmi Konyvkiado in Budapest, ISBN 963 15 4356 0.
A previous book of poetry was entitled: VASOTT VARAZSLAT published by
Magveto Kiadonal.

BTW, the cover art was done by one Wally Keeler.

Are we pARTners or what.

:My Hungarian references are:  Faludy George

Mine too

:                              Demszky Gabor

Went to university with him
:                              Zend Robert

Pity that he died before I moved to Toronto.

:                              Szkarosi Endre (of Uj Holgyfutar infamy)


Wally was deeper in the avante-garde than I, although I was aware of
Szkarosi's creative works.
 
:Wally Keeler                      Poetry
Brigitta Bali
:Creative Intelligence Agency           is
Federal Bureau of Inspiration
:Peoples Republic of Poetry             Poetency

> (Wally Keeler) wrote:
> (Brigitta Bali) wrote:
> (Wally Keeler) wrote:
> (Brigitta Bali) wrote:
`=[:> (Wally Keeler) wrote:
`=[: (Gabor Barsai) drafted:
`=[:-)Attention! All rise! Order is now called by the great grandiose
`=[:-)dictator-for-life, the ruler supreme,
`=[:-)the fearless, the brave, the held-high-in-esteem,
`=[:-)Walllllllly the bold! Yes, stand up and hail
`=[:-)his humbleness now! May his wisdom prevail!
`=[:-)
`=[:-)Three cheers for first lady, the really witty
`=[:-)Brigi, the delight of all cognoscenti!
`=[:-)She's savvy! She has a prodigious IQ,
`=[:-)and lots of panache, as all ladies do!
`=[:-)In her fancy chapeau, she's a leader with taste!
`=[:-)May her orders be heeded and her views be embraced!
`=[:-
`=[:-Now we are getting somewhere. This has wit and humour. I tip my hat. 
`=[:-Although we are not talking first class here, this one was measurable
`=[:-on the Dichter Scale. [Think Deutch: dicht]. Didn't make it into the
`=[:-red, but the needle moved significantly. Sure puts that politically-
`=[:-correct tight-ass Gyorgy KoVACUOUS into perspective, not to mention
`=[:-that pre-med student majoring in PoorPoorPoor 101, watzernam, Annal
`=[:-Smith.
`=[:
`=[:For Wally Keeler, I dedicate this bit of fun:
`=[:
`=[:The camera pans a scattered cloudy sky; a voiceover says:
`=[:     "Faster than a speeding zinger
`=[:     More powerful than a fekete vonat
`=[:     Able to leap tall tales in a single joke"
`=[:Assorted voices:
`=[:     "Look!
`=[:     Up in the sky!
`=[:     It's a word!
`=[:     It's a verb!
`=[:     No!
`=[:     It's Stupendouswit!!!!"
`=[:
`=[:For the origanal Annal Smith, I dedicate this version:
`=[:
`=[:The camera pans an empty mall parking lot; a voiceover says:
`=[:     "Slower than a fly in amber
`=[:     Weaker than American beer
`=[:     Able to here-I-am on a single "chick"
`=[:Assorted voices:
`=[:     "Look!
`=[:     Down in the pit!
`=[:     It's debris!
`=[:     It's toxic!
`=[:     Yes!
`=[:     It's Ms Taken Iden Titty!!!!"
`=[
`=[Brigitta, my love, you've already achieved your Poetic Licence. Why do
`=[you want to take your Oath of Offence* again?
`=[
`=[           *"I swear to post Poetic
`=[             wholly Poetic
`=[             and nothing but Poetic
`=[             so help me Poetofi!"
`=
`=Aren't you being a little bit too dipoematic my dear? Don't forget our
`=allegiance to the territorial imperative of the Policy of Poetry
`=Proliferation.
`
`A tip o' the top hat =[ to ya darlin'. What a pARTner!

& a feather ` in yours, pARTner.

On Sun, 14 Apr 1996, Ferenc Istvan Vaski wrote:
> RE: TRANSYLVANIA BELONGS TO HUNGARY !

Transilvania is eternally Romanian -- or Roman Daco-Getae, if you 
like -- and belongs to no one but Herself!  I am not referring to 
political boundaries here, but something far deeper; more mytho-
poetic.  The fact is that, in the balance, the Getae have always 
been more xenophilic than xenophobic, which is why we Romanians, 
at our best, have such a rich and diverse culture: we have been 
wise enough over the millennia to allow ourselves to become enriched
by the cultures of those who came to our land, whether they were on 
the war path, or migrated, or even they were just passing through.  

From:  (Ferenc Istvan Vaski):
> [...].....Really?....No...Transylvania is Magyar...and always
> will be....

This is also true.  I shall make an analogy between this peace of land 
-- with all its mythic meaning in the World's collective unconscious 
and in that of the Romanians and Magyars -- and one person: Transilvania 
and Radu Florescu, respectively (and with great respect, as well: I 
will be forever grateful to Prof. Florescu for all his kindness to me 
personally and for his unerring dedication to historical truth.):

Professor Radu Radu Florescu, so far as I know, is half Romanian and 
half Magyar by birth, but, as with many 19th and 20th Century boieri, 
he was raised speaking French as his first language and, in fact, 
married a French woman (if I am not mistaken).  He lives in America 
and teaches at Boston Collage and it would surprise me greatly if he 
were not an American citizen by now. :-)  He has written a number of 
authoritative books on such topics as the history of the Uniate 
Church in Transilvania, the _Struggle Against Russia in the Roumanian 
Principalities_ (1962), and, quite to the topic at hand, a study of 
the Magyar minority in Transilvania.

It is obvious to most Romanians, including Prof. Florescu himself 
I would imagine, that he is Romanian to the core.  But this does 
not negate his American-nature as one of the immigrants who have 
strengthened our country and of which I, as an American, am also 
proud; nor does it negate his Francophon upbringing -- he is quite 
the French and English literature scholar -- ; nor, more to the 
point, does it in any way diminish his Magyar heritage.  I think 
Fekete Zoltan might be able to speak for this nicely.  (Please 
forgive me if I have misspelled your name, Zoli).

This man began life with an ethnic heritage enriched by the cultures 
of two great peoples of Central Europe, then took on the cultures of 
the French and the English-speaking peoples, and later migrated to far 
off America, where he then took on what it is to be an American.  After 
each wave of cultural exposure, he could never go back to being "not 
this" or "not that," nor did he lose that which came before.

So here is the analogy I make: Transilvania is noless Magyar for 
the Magyars only having been there less than half as long as we 
Romanians, in the same manner that Radu Florescu is nonetheless 
American, despite his not having been born here in America. 
(...and Mr. Ferenc, since I am not specificly arguing "historical 
fact" here, you may just as well reverse "Magyar" for "Romanian" 
in the preceding sentence (if you absolutely insist), but you 
will see in either case that my argument still stands.)

You wrote further:
> no matter what type of "pogroms" or "relocation" or "cleansing" is 
> manifested on it......if not even one living, breathing Magyar walks 
> on it's surface....Transylvania's soul will always remain Magyar... 
> [...]

Yes, this is undoubtably true, and it is also true that Her soul will 
always remain Daco-Getic, Celtic, Roman, Gothic, Slavic, German, Jewish, 
and even a bit Rromani; for all these peoples -- and many more -- have 
lived in Transilvania at one time or other: some merely passing through; 
some staying and integrating; and the sad situation in recent decades 
of two of these peoples, sold by Ceausescu to other countries till 
there were almost none of their number left in Transilvania. 

Nonetheless -- and by your very own rhetoric above (!) -- each of 
these peoples have left their imprint on Her, enriching Her, and 
giving Her a mythic strength, perhaps unequaled in Europe (except 
maybe by the Welsh :-).

Lastly -- and this is, I admit, rather a frivolous argument, but 
as I am discussing Transilvania's place in the World's collective 
unconscious and the attributes of the mythic, archetypal Transilvania 
-- I rhetorically ask: in all of World history and literature, whose 
name is most associated with "Transylvania"?

In the Eternal Night,
Your Undying Myth,
Vlad Luceafarul Zmeulea-Zeneasca of the Getae    Sa traiasca Romania!
_____________________________________________________________________
Vlad-Jyomyo Tepes Draculea                         
            '   '  "No rank, no post" -- Zen Master Rinzai

In article >,
Wally Keeler > wrote:
>majoring in PoorPoorPoor 101, watzernam, Annal Smith.

Is this creativity? Or being just plain bland?

>If you continue the good satire as indicated in your post, you will
>certainly pass the examination for Poetic Licence. I wish you well.

Not.

Gabor

In article >,  > wrote:

>Well, I just stopped watching the CBS "60 Minutes" show and your
>argument is very similar to the one Andy Rooney made fun of at the end
>of the show.  Only he was talking about the Unabomber and OJ.


  As I recall, O.J. Simpson is innocent. Period. Does not mean that
he did not do it, but he is innocent. Everything else is your opinion
only, and has nothing to do with law.

>stumbled into on his way to the forum.  However, you have to admit
>that all these things put together make Elek highly suspect in the
>mind of an average person."

  Could you finally try to understand what others are talking about?
Everybody is arguing that based on the evidence presented, Elek is
not guilty (as the term is defined in the constitution). Since you have 
problems accepting this legal system, where 'probably guilty' means 'not
guilty', may be you should find some other country to live in. The middle east 
still has some countries where people can be convicted based on probabilities.
  On the other hand, as an oh so good computer expert, how did it happen
to you? Are you saying that with all your computer knowledge, you kept
sensitive e-mail in opentext on a multiuser computer? No sane computer
expert would consider an e-mail stored that way 'private'. If I leave
a private (paper) mail in a conference room (opened), I should not
complain if somebody reads it. If I send a postcard (the equivalent
of an opentext e-mail), I'm sure it will be read by others (postmaster,
secretary, etc.).

Gyula
-- 
Gyula P. Szokoly ) -------------------------------\
|  When I am weaker than you, I ask you for freedom because that is according|
|to your principles; when I am  stronger than  you, I take away  your freedom|
|because that is according to my principles.                 -- Frank Herbert|

 (T. M. Lutas) wrote:

......snip....

>OK, would you care to defend a previous hungarian's contention that there
>was more church persecution of hungarian churches in 1948 than there was
>of the Byzantine rite catholic faith (greco-catolic). 1948 was the year
>when this church was disbanded and most of the clergy was thrown in jail.
>In this year the hungarian claimed that there were no churches or other
>properties confiscated by the government except for 17 'episcopal palaces'
>as I recall. This particular bit of history is so obvious and so well
>documented that I wasn't aware that there were people around that were so
>ignorant of the facts until this post slapped me in the face.

>I didn't keep the ethnic figures in my archives but 
>posted the entire series. Somehow I don't think he is going to want to
>repost the relevant tables.

>DB

>DB

>-- 
>Romanian Political Pages now are available
>http://haven.ios.com/~dbrutus

......no, why would you bring up a point like this....the wide-spread
religous persecution is a well known fact....do you always make a
judgement based on one reference?....and it applied to all
denominations....as for figures....it always seems that there is a
distinct bend in them....I think you are missing my point...as the
statement of hte original post contends....it does belong to
Hungary....F.I.V.

On 15 Apr 1996, T. Kocsis wrote:

> Which could cause problem is not on this table, the gov't's debt
> which is app 33 bn $. The larger part of it is inner debt, which
> is above 20 bn. This sum was borrowed from Hungarian banks.
> Tamas

Here is some late data, as comprehensive as I could come up with:

TITLE:                   ECONOMIC NEWS
SUBJECT COUNTRY(IES):    HUNGARY
POST OF ORIGIN:          BUDAPEST
DATE OF REPORT (YYMMDD): 960411
DELETION DATE (YYMMDD):  961011

NUMBER OF PAGES:         4

SUBJECT:  ECONOMIC PRESS REVIEW FOR
          MARCH 31 - APRIL 6, 1996

1.   THIS CABLE REPORTS ON ECONOMIC ISSUES COVERED IN THE
HUNGARIAN PRESS DURING THE WEEK OF MARCH 31 - APRIL 6, BUT
NOT COVERED SEPARATELY IN EMBASSY REPORTING.  MOST
INFORMATION HAS BEEN OBTAINED FROM MTI, THE HUNGARIAN
GOVERNMENT'S NEWS SERVICE.  TOPICS FOR THIS PERIOD INCLUDE:

--   USD 0.6 BILLION FOREIGN TRADE DEFICIT IN FIRST TWO
     MONTHS OF 1996

--   NET FOREIGN DEBT USD 15.8 BILLION AT END OF JANUARY

--   HUNGARY'S GDP UP 1.5 PERCENT IN 1995

--   REAL WAGES FALL 5.9 PERCENT IN FIRST TWO MONTHS

--   UNEMPLOYMENT RATE 11.6 PERCENT IN MARCH

--   BUDAPEST STOCK EXCHANGE CONTINUES TO CLIMB

-------------------------------------
USD 0.6 BILLION FOREIGN TRADE DEFICIT
IN FIRST TWO MONTHS OF 1996
-------------------------------------

2.   HUNGARIAN EXPORTS TOTALLED USD 1.8 BILLION IN THE FIRST
TWO MONTHS OF THIS YEAR, UP 5.5 PERCENT OVER THE SAME PERIOD
OF 1995, WHILE IMPORTS TOTALLED USD 2.4 BILLION IN THE FIRST
TWO MONTHS OF 1996, UP 11 PERCENT FROM THE CORRESPONDING
PERIOD OF 1995.  THE FOREIGN TRADE DEFICIT TOTALLED USD 0.6
BILLION IN THE FIRST TWO MONTHS; USD 0.5 BILLION AFTER
DEDUCTING ITEMS NOT REQUIRING PAYMENT, USD 80 MILLION UP
FROM THE CORRESPONDING PERIOD OF 1995.  THE IMPORT INCREASE
IS FIRST OF ALL DUE TO THE UNUSUALLY COLD WINTER, WHICH
RESULTED IN THE 40 PERCENT INCREASE OF CRUDE OIL IMPORTS
YEAR-ON-YEAR IN U.S. DOLLARS, AND IN A 20 PERCENT INCREASE
OF NATURAL GAS IMPORTS AND A 100 PERCENT INCREASE IN
ELECTRICITY IMPORTS.  ENERGY CONSUMPTION WAS UP 15 PERCENT
IN THE JANUARY-FEBRUARY PERIOD AND ENERGY IMPORTS WERE UP
USD 82 MILLION FROM THE CORRESPONDING PERIOD OF LAST YEAR.
IMPORTS FOR COMMISSION ON CONTRACT JOBS WERE UP USD 145
MILLION.

3.   OVER 74 PERCENT OF THE TOTAL HUNGARIAN EXPORTS IN THE
FIRST TWO MONTHS OF THIS YEAR WENT TO DEVELOPED COUNTRIES,
THREE PERCENT TO DEVELOPING AND ABOUT 21 PERCENT TO THE
FORMER SOCIALIST COUNTRIES.  EXPORTS TO EU COUNTRIES
INCREASED SLIGHTLY, INCLUDING A 20 PERCENT INCREASE OF
HUNGARIAN EXPORTS TO GERMANY WHICH ACCOUNTED FOR 30 PERCENT
OF ALL HUNGARIAN EXPORTS.  EXPORTS TO THE CZECH REPUBLIC
INCREASED BY 50 PERCENT.  EXPORTS TO THE NETHERLANDS,
POLAND, RUSSIA AND SLOVAKIA ALSO INCREASED WHILE EXPORTS TO
OTHER FORMER SOCIALIST COUNTRIES DROPPED.  68 PERCENT OF
IMPORTS CAME FROM DEVELOPED COUNTRIES.

> ---------------------------------------------------
NET FOREIGN DEBT USD 15.8 BILLION AT END OF JANUARY
> ---------------------------------------------------

4.   HUNGARY'S NET FOREIGN DEBT STOOD AT USD 15.8 BILLION AT
THE END OF JANUARY AS AGAINST USD 16.8 BILLION AT THE END OF
1995.  ITS NOT CLEAR WHETHER THE NEW METHODOLOGY AND
STRUCTURE OF COLLECTING DATA TO CALCULATE THE BALANCE OF
PAYMENT HAD ANY AFFECT ON FIGURES EXCEPT THAT THE
DISTRIBUTION FOR CONVERTIBLE AND NON-CONVERTIBLE CURRENCY
WAS ABOLISHED FROM THE BEGINNING OF THIS YEAR.  THE NET DEBT
OF THE GOVERNMENT AND THE CENTRAL BANK DROPPED FROM USD
11.03 BILLION AT THE END OF DECEMBER TO USD 10.03 BILLION
WITH NO TANGIBLE CHANGE IN THE NET DEBT OF THE PRIVATE
SECTOR, THAT IS LIABILITIES OF COMMERCIAL BANKS AND
ENTERPRISES WHICH FELL BY ONLY USD 50 MILLION TO USD 5.7
BILLION AT THE END OF JANUARY.  HUNGARY'S GROSS FOREIGN DEBT
ALSO FELL SLIGHTLY IN JANUARY FROM USD 31.7 BILLION AT THE
END OF 1995 TO USD 30.9 BILLION.  MORE THAN ONE FOURTH, 27
PERCENT, OF GROSS FOREIGN DEBTS ORIGINATED IN THE PRIVATE
SECTOR WITH USD 83 BILLION.  GROSS FOREIGN STATE DEBT FELL
FROM USD 23.2 BILLION AT THE END OF LAST YEAR TO USD 22.7
BILLION AT THE END OF JANUARY 1996.   DIRECT FOREIGN
INVESTMENTS IN EQUITY CAPITAL STOOD AT USD 11.9 BILLION AT
THE END OF JANUARY.


------------------------------------
HUNGARY'S GDP UP 1.5 PERCENT IN 1995
------------------------------------

5.   ACCORDING TO PRELIMINARY FIGURES BASED ON 1991 PRICES,
HUNGARY'S GDP INCREASED BY 1.5 PERCENT LAST YEAR TO HUF
5,500 BILLION AT CURRENT PRICES (CURRENT HUF/DOLLAR EXCHANGE
IS APPROXIMATELY 142 HUF/1 USD), OR HUF 540,000 PER CAPITA.
LAST YEAR'S PER CAPITA GDP FIGURE WAS USD 4,300 AT THE
ANNUAL AVERAGE EXCHANGE RATE OR USD 7,000 AT PURCHASING
POWER PARITY (PPP).  IN 1994, HUNGARY'S GDP INCREASED BY 2.9
PERCENT AND PER CAPITA GDP WAS HUF 425,365 (USD 4,046) OR
USD 6,100 AT PPP.  1995'S GDP GROWTH STEMMED FROM THE 15-16
PERCENT INCREASE IN EXPORTS, WHILE IMPORTS REMAINED
APPROXIMATELY AT THEIR 1994 LEVEL.  THE VOLUME OF INVESTMENT
ROSE BY ONLY ONE PERCENT LAST YEAR AS AGAINST THE 12.5
PERCENT INCREASE IN 1994.  AT THE SAME TIME, THE INCREASE IN
STOCKS WAS HIGHER THAN IN THE PREVIOUS YEAR SO ACCUMULATION
INCREASED BY 3-4 PERCENT.  PUBLIC CONSUMPTION DROPPED BY SIX
PERCENT IN 1995.  HOUSEHOLD CONSUMPTION FELL BY 5-6 PERCENT
INCLUDING SOCIAL ALLOWANCES AND THE REAL INCOME OF
HOUSEHOLDS ALSO DROPPED BY 5-6 PERCENT WITH A 10-12 PERCENT
FALL IN REAL WAGES IN 1995.

> -----------------------------------------------
REAL WAGES FALL 5.9 PERCENT IN FIRST TWO MONTHS
> -----------------------------------------------

6.   AVERAGE WAGES WERE 5.9 PERCENT LOWER IN REAL TERMS IN
JANUARY-FEBRUARY 1996 THAN IN THE FIRST TWO MONTHS OF 1995.
FIGURES RELATE TO BUSINESSES WITH MORE THAN TEN EMPLOYEES
WHICH OPERATE OUTSIDE THE AGRICULTURAL SECTOR.  AVERAGE REAL
WAGES FOR WHITE-COLLAR WORKERS FELL 7.5 PERCENT, WHILE BLUE-
COLLAR WORKERS' WAGES WERE DOWN BY 5.3 PERCENT IN JANUARY-
FEBRUARY 1996, COMPARED TO THE SAME PERIOD IN 1995.  NET
WAGES AVERAGED OUT AT HUF 28,049 PER MONTH IN JANUARY-
FEBRUARY 1996, A 21 PERCENT NOMINAL INCREASE OVER THE SAME
PERIOD IN 1995.  CONSUMER PRICES ROSE 28.6 PERCENT OVER THE
SAME 12 MONTH PERIOD.

---------------------------------------
UNEMPLOYMENT RATE 11.6 PERCENT IN MARCH
---------------------------------------

7.   AT THE END OF MARCH, THE NUMBER OF REGISTERED
UNEMPLOYED WAS DOWN BY 2,200 FROM THE PREVIOUS MONTH,
TOTALLING 528,400, BUT THIS DECLINE DID NOT AFFECT THE
UNEMPLOYMENT RATE, WHICH REMAINED UNCHANGED IN MARCH AT 11.6
PERCENT.  THE NUMBER OF UNEMPLOYED, NOT INCLUDING THOSE
ENTERING THE LABOR MARKET FOR THE FIRST TIME, WAS 476,300 AT
THE END OF MARCH, DOWN BY AS FEW AS 353 FROM FEBRUARY.  THE
HIGHEST RATE - 21 PERCENT - WAS REGISTERED IN EASTERN
HUNGARY, WHILE THE UNEMPLOYMENT RATE WAS THE LOWEST - 6.1
PERCENT - IN BUDAPEST.

> ------------------------------------------
BUDAPEST STOCK EXCHANGE CONTINUES TO CLIMB
> ------------------------------------------

8.   THE BUDAPEST STOCK EXCHANGE (BSE) INDEX OPENED MONDAY,
APRIL 1 AT 2447.17, CLIMBED TO 2481.96 AND CLOSED THE WEEK
DOWN AT 2453.28.  COMPENSATION COUPONS OPENED THE WEEK AT
392 AND CLOSED AT 377.

 (T. M. Lutas) wrote:

......snip....

>OK, would you care to defend a previous hungarian's contention that there
>was more church persecution of hungarian churches in 1948 than there was
>of the Byzantine rite catholic faith (greco-catolic). 1948 was the year
>when this church was disbanded and most of the clergy was thrown in jail.
>In this year the hungarian claimed that there were no churches or other
>properties confiscated by the government except for 17 'episcopal palaces'
>as I recall. This particular bit of history is so obvious and so well
>documented that I wasn't aware that there were people around that were so
>ignorant of the facts until this post slapped me in the face.

>I didn't keep the ethnic figures in my archives but 
>posted the entire series. Somehow I don't think he is going to want to
>repost the relevant tables.

>DB

>DB

>-- 
>Romanian Political Pages now are available
>http://haven.ios.com/~dbrutus

......no, why would you bring up a point like this....the wide-spread
religous persecution is a well known fact....do you always make a
judgement based on one reference?....and it applied to all
denominations....as for figures....it always seems that there is a
distinct bend in them....I think you are missing my point...as the
statement of hte original post contends....it does belong to
Hungary....F.I.V.

 (T. M. Lutas) wrote:

......snip.....

>Your point please? Do you find it unreasonable that I don't want to take 
>more gypsy criminals into Romania than are absolutely necessary? Or do you
>find flesh peddling to be somehow morally attractive? Or do you believe 
>that all gypsies must be thieves, vagabonds, and other undesireables? 
>I would be interested in hearing your beliefs and the evidence to back them
>up.

>DB

.....My point?....no I don't believe that all gypsies are crminals
etc....and thru my remarks I was alluding to the initial post's
obviously rampant racial slurs....which is a good indincation of the
poster's frame of mind...the statement about your *vision* was
deferring to your zany example of the Amish ....relative to Magyars in
what is their ancestral land....F.I.V.

> ========================================================================
              AMERICAN ASSOCIATION OF YOUNG HUNGARIANS
                 FIATAL MAGYAROK AMERIKAI EGYESULETE
                     EMAIL: 
                      WWW: http://www.aayh.org/
> ========================================================================


NB CHAPTER KAVEHAZ --  The New Brunswick Chapter held a kavehaz at 
which poet Gomori Gyorgy was the guest lecturer.  Gomori Gyorgy was a 
participant of the 1956 revolution as a student organizer and later 
fled to England where he became a student, later a professor at 
Cambridge University.   He spoke to us about his and other authors 
poetry regarding the Hungarian Revolution of 1956. (Kovacs Robi)

CHAPTER MEETING -- The next New Brunswick Chapter meeting will 
be held on April 21 at 7:30 PM at the Cserkeszhaz in New Brunswick, New 
Jersey.  The Agenda items will include the following: JUMPSTART, 
Travelling to the Chicago Millencentarium celebration, The Hungarian 
Festival in New Brunswick,  The next AC Bus trip, The next kavehaz 
speaker, the OPEN.  Everyone who is a member, wants to be a member, or 
is interested in the AAYH is invited to join us. (Kovacs Robert)

We need Hungarian interpreters who are located in Chicago or its suburbs 
for an upcoming assignment in June.  Although this is the immediate need, 
qualified translators everywhere are encouraged to send their resumes for 
future projects.

Best Regards,

Seufina Yoeu, Project Manager
International Languages & Cultures, Inc.
e-mail: 
Fax: 312/321-6541
Telephone: 312/832-7719

We need Hungarian interpreters who are located in Chicago or its suburbs 
for an upcoming assignment in June.  Although this is the immediate need, 
qualified translators everywhere are encouraged to send their resumes for 
future projects.

Best Regards,

Seufina Yoeu, Project Manager
International Languages & Cultures, Inc.
e-mail: 
Fax: 312/321-6541
Telephone: 312/832-7719

In article >,  (Ferenc Istvan
Vaski) wrote:

>  (T. M. Lutas) wrote:
> 
> .....snip....
> 
> >OK, would you care to defend a previous hungarian's contention that there
> >was more church persecution of hungarian churches in 1948 than there was
> >of the Byzantine rite catholic faith (greco-catolic). 1948 was the year
> >when this church was disbanded and most of the clergy was thrown in jail.
> >In this year the hungarian claimed that there were no churches or other
> >properties confiscated by the government except for 17 'episcopal palaces'
> >as I recall. This particular bit of history is so obvious and so well
> >documented that I wasn't aware that there were people around that were so
> >ignorant of the facts until this post slapped me in the face.
> 
> >I didn't keep the ethnic figures in my archives but 
> >posted the entire series. Somehow I don't think he is going to want to
> >repost the relevant tables.

> .....no, why would you bring up a point like this....the wide-spread
> religous persecution is a well known fact....do you always make a
> judgement based on one reference?....and it applied to all
> denominations....as for figures....it always seems that there is a
> distinct bend in them....I think you are missing my point...as the
> statement of hte original post contends....it does belong to
> Hungary....F.I.V.

I see that you are backpedaling already. My contention is that Hungarian
propaganda on transylvania has been dishonest. I provided an example from
SCR that happened this year (a month or two ago). Your contention is that
transylvania was, is, and will always be hungarian (as I understand it). 
Now you have made some statements that romanians are subject to distorted
world views and biased ethnic propaganda. I don't think that my pointing
out biased hungarian propaganda that is very inaccurate to be off point at
all. Both sides have their exaggerators. Funar & co aren't credible sources
for me. What hungarian propagandists aren't credible sources for you?

DB

-- 
Romanian Political Pages now are available
http://haven.ios.com/~dbrutus

In article >, T. Kocsis > wrote
:

> No, it is wrong conclusion. This money is not loan but investment.
> The investors have these assets as property. If they want to with-
> draw, it is their personal problem. 
> 
> Which could cause problem is not on this table, the gov't's debt
> which is app 33 bn $. The larger part of it is inner debt, which
> is above 20 bn. This sum was borrowed from Hungarian banks.
> 
> AFAIK, the Romanian external debt now exceeds 5 bn $. This is
> the dangerous tendency, because you did not have (or just very
> minimal) debt in the early nineties. ( Our external debt seems
> stabilized and increased very little in the last few years.)

So a country that is twice as big as Hungary has $5bn external debt.
Hungary has over $12bn external debt (remember these are your own
figures). Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

There is a danger for Romania because much of the money that has been
taken in has financed private gain for the well connected and also to
purchase consumer goods that will not lead to Romania recovering from the
ill economic effects of communism. After the elections, the CDR will likely
increase the external debt more due to the need to provide better 
infrastructure for economic development. There are transition costs that
have to be borne in order to go from communism to capitalism. I pity the
poor idiots who have invested in Hungary though. Like the Japanese land
investors in US properties of the 1980's they bought while the going was 
good and are now bailing out in a down market taking tremendous losses. Of
course few Japanese will be investing in US land in the next few decades.
If the communists hold true to form, Hungary is due for an economic decline.
Will this poison western investment for only a short while or will there be
a long term reluctance to invest in Hungary.

For Romania of course these questions are only of academic interest for the
time being. When Constantinescu and the CDR win in the fall, the next big
challenge will be how to make CDR government successful enough so that the
communists don't make a comeback as they did in Hungary.

DB

-- 
Romanian Political Pages now are available
http://haven.ios.com/~dbrutus

> ========================================================================
              AMERICAN ASSOCIATION OF YOUNG HUNGARIANS
                 FIATAL MAGYAROK AMERIKAI EGYESULETE
                     EMAIL: 
                      WWW: http://www.aayh.org/
> ========================================================================


04/15/96 - FIELD TRIP TO CLEVELAND - There is a field trip planned for 
all AAYH members on April 27 -28 to Cleveland, Ohio.  All members are 
invited to visit our friends in Cleveland, go to a Bal, play in the 
"Marci's dream come true" AAYH soccer game, and visit the Rock and 
Roll Hall of Fame.  If you are interested in going to Cleveland, 
please contact Kovacs Robi or Stetz Andi.  (Stetz Andi)

boy brent ) wrote:
: In article >, David Byrden > wrote:
: :In fact, he'll be late for work.

: Jesus is coming, look busy.

This thread is off-topic for most of the newsgroups to which it has been 
posted. I have removed my own favorite newsgroups from the headers, and 
urge others to do the same. This will help to reduce inappropriate 
crossposting in Usenet.

Henrietta Thomas
Chicago, Illinois, USA

We need Hungarian interpreters who are located in Chicago or its suburbs 
for an upcoming assignment in June.  Although this is the immediate need, 
qualified translators everywhere are encouraged to send their resumes for 
future projects.

Best Regards,

Seufina Yoeu, Project Manager
International Languages & Cultures, Inc.
e-mail: 
Fax: 312/321-6541
Telephone: 312/832-7719

em Portugu=EAs

eu amo-te

Wally, you are making it WAY TOO EASY!

>My attention was held by futile attempts to provoke some original wit from
>you, to inspire you to rise above the banality and blandness of your
>postings. I failed.

Yup, you did not notice it because you have no idea what it is.

>New Riverside Dictionary? This is the Harlquin Romance version of American
>dictionaries.
>Your dictionary is elementary school level.
>First of all, throw out that pulp-ductionary

I can't, it's property of the University. Besides why would I remove the
evidence of your inadequacy. If Webster is not good enough for you, you have to
discuss it with the publisher, not me. And by the way: Welcome to the 20th
Century of spoken English!

>Poets ARE liars.

Fortunately not all of them.

>|Regards and good luck on your language studies,

>If English is your second language, and it shows in your posts, then you have
>no base on which to tell someone whose first language is English to study
>language.

True, your teacher should have told you. I understand you can't handle me
being better in English than you are. If the shoe was on the other foot, it
would bother me too.

>In terms of English, you are, at the very best (I feel generous) 2nd rate,

What else is new?

> whereas, I am 1st rate.

Now you are funny!

>Get it dumbbell?

I'm not heavy enough for that, try Teddy-bear!

>In Hungarian, relative to me, you are 1st rate, and I am no where.  That's the
fact.

Come to think of it, what newsgroup is this?

>Also, in terms of relativity, I am first rate in English in terms of the
>general English population world wide.
>>>Poets ARE liars.

>So I'm telling you, here and now, shutup, sit down and learn something for a
>change.

I did. Your turn!

Regards,
Gyorgy Kovacs

Hugh Ekeberg wrote:

In Afrikaans:

Ek is lief van jou!

>Wally Keeler > wrote:
>>Anna Smith wrote:
>>|Oh poor Wally. With an attitude like that you'll never get a date.
>>
>>I have a lifetime date. Mmmmm!
>
>You mean, your deux hands? Which do you prefer to date?
>
>>Hey Goober, this one's majoring in vasectomies. Wanna be that sopranno you
>>always dreamt of?

Just an other example of Wally needing the dictionary he suggests for others. 
This poor lost fella confuses vasectomy to castration.

Koszononom a gyors es pontos valaszt, most mar csak egy elkotelezett
liga-parti velemenyere lennek kivancsi, mikent kommentalja az ilyen
megnyilvanulasokat. Lehet-e egy nekunk nem rokonszenves VELEMENY kifej-
teseert ilyen jellegu retorziokat beigerni? Udvozlettel: Kiraly Miklos