My apologies for intruding with having suitably lurked, but I have a
semi-urgent question.  An acquaintance of mine is looking to travel to Eastern
to try to find the Vloch gypsies (he's related).  The only thing holding him
back is how he could contact them once he got there.

Any help would be appreciated, pointers, etc.  Email is preferred, but I will
monitor news for responses.  Thanks in advance.


-- 
#include	<standard.disclaimer>
 _
Kevin D Quitt  USA 91351-4454		96.37% of all statistics are made up

I am the deponent for a young hungarian singer on a six month visa
who wishes to stay longer, become proficient at english, and study
operatic singing at The University of Akron, in Akron, OH.

He has requested my assistance in procuring a "green card" and also
with finding reasonable health insurance.  Before I get put on hold
for many hours by INS, I am hoping there is someone out there in the
Hungarian-American community who can point me in the right direction
or show some effectinve short cuts.  The "green card" part I can most
likely handle.  It is the insurance problem, and this young man has
not a great deal of money.  I will help as much as I can, but want
to make sound financial decisions here.

If anyone out there can help me, please e-mail me at the above
address:  or at 

Thank you.
-- 
"I took a warp speed tour of the Music   //  
of the Spheres, and found it to be      //  Mark Rosenthal
good, for celestial stuff"...          //  a.k.a  Caruso1
	-Rosenthal 1995		      // Author of strange but deep thoughts

Matyas  > wrote:
>
>How many people did gather at Alba Iulia on that 1st of December, 1918 (please
>try to document it). What percentage of the Romanians inhabitants of 
>Transylvania 
>and what percentage of the total population did this represent? Were they all 
>current Transylvanian inhabitants? How did they find out about the event and 
>how did they get there?

You forgot another important question:  whose army was in control of
Alba Iulia at the time?

Joe

I'm interested in locating Akiva Kahan, a gentleman of approximately sixty-eigh
t years of age who once worked as an expert in bus transmissions in Montreal an
d Toronto.  He probably was capable in other areas.  A lover of classical music
, sports, nature, 
widely travelled. lived in Israel, had family in Montreal.
If anyone knows him to please tell him that Rosemary Gunnill would be delighted
 to see / correspond / meet with him again.
Please respond to this mailbox.

From:  (Constantin Donea)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian,soc.culture.magyar
Subject: Re: Quebec and/or Transylvania
Date: Tue Nov  7 18:13:12 1995

|CHARLES VAMOSSY > writes:
|>Canada, much to it's credit, supported Quebec's claim to language and 
|>culture, and wrote it into their constitution.  This is so much so, that 
|>today, if anything, it is the French in Quebec who restrict English.
|
Constantin Donea wrote:
|According to you, should Romanians also get that far allowing Hungarians
|in Transylvania to ban the Romanian language? This is ludicrous!

It would be ludicrous if the Hungarians made it their policy to restrict
Romanian, and ludicrous to think so. However, I think the more pertinent
point is whether it is unproductive for the Romanians to restrict
Hungarian. The Quebequois placed restrictions on English in Quebec because
they want to present a French face to the world, and more importantly, to
themselves. Quebec is by far a predominantly French society and it would
only seem normal that when they want to look into their cultural mirror,
they want to see French. I do agree, however, that their concern for the
protection of that French fact has taken excessive turns here and there. 

|>The vote a couple of days days ago is of little consequence to me 
|>personally, since I do not live in that country.  But I can't help but 
|>wonder if Romania, having taken over Transylvania as war booty from the 
|>loosing Hungarian side, would afford the same human rights to its 
|>Hungarian minority as Canada does to the French.  Would Romania give the 
|>same constitutional guarantees of language and culture as Canada?  And 
|>should the Hungarians in Transylvania decide to test their strength and 
|>call for a referendum about autonomy -- would Romania conduct the polling 
|>with the same scrupulous fairness as Canada did?

|There are enormous differences between the past and actual histories of
|Transylvania within Romania and Quebec within Canada. It is very much
|painful for me Charles that you haven't got so far a proper image
|about Transylvania's place as part of a Romanian national state.

Being neither Romanian nor Hungarian, it is not at all clear to me the
value that either side has placed on the historical circumstance of
Transylvania. Both sides have merit to varying degrees. The historical
record is largely bereft of any democratic merit -- the respective
histories consist largely of the acts of kings, queens, dictators, etc. In
any event, Transylvania is currently administered by a predominately
Romanian-based government and consequently it will be Romanians who will
decide what is in the best interest of the people of Transylvania.

|>If Romania is truly a democratic nation serious about joining the ranks 
|>of Western democracies, the answer surely must be yes.  
|
|Again, you must be kidding. Would the Mexicans in the states taken as
|"war booty" a century ago by Washington be allowed to vote for
|independence? Or aren't USA any more both the motherland and the
|fatherland of the democracy in the world?

The USA is neither the motherland or fatherland of democracy. Quebec was
the "war booty" of the British and now we see a significant proportion of
Quebec wanting to be an independent country. If they succeed, they might
just possible be the only nation in all of world history to have been born
exclusively by means of democracy. The USA had a significant population of
French in its beginning but they have been assimilated so well that they
remain only as fiddle players and cajun cooks. They are now culturally
insignificant "as a people". Within Canadian democracy, the French fact has
florished. Who is to say which was the better way.

-- 
Wally Keeler					Poetry
Creative Intelligence Agency			is
Peoples Republic of Poetry			Poetency

Nehany honappal ezelott valaki hirdetett egy "site"-ot ahova nehany erdelyi
fenykep volt tarolva (ha jol emlekszem egy Norvegiai szerveren voltak). Meg
tudna valaki irni ujbol a www cimet?

Elore koszonom,

Marci

So, what happens when you are in a bad mood ? Is it a kind of threat on 
the - known and too much kept "under control" - hungarian intollerance 
and hatered agains romanians ? Matyas, YOU are looking for it...

Noooo,how about KAMA-SUTRA?

Hi,

I am forwarding this mesg to this news group, since I believe many of the
readers will be affected if Senate immigration bill S1394 passes. 

Thanks for attention. 
- Yu


***************************************************************************** 
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Dear CSSA members,

We are glad to see 19 people, including some from Indiana University, that 
have sent to .  We need more people to send 
email to the senate, to make an impact.  Please ACT!  We have 480 people on 
our mailing list, we should get more email out.  

Also, PLEASE FORWARD our mesg to whoever you know, whichever mailing
list you subscribe to.

Watch http://caledonian.cs.ucla.edu/~cssa for updated information.


- CSSA-UCLA Committee

p.s., note the mesg below has been updated over the previous one. 




		       STOP Senate Bill S1394


> =============================================================================
==
1. BAD BILL, BAD NEW FOR ALL F-1 STUDENTS
2. ACT NOW.  EMAIL, PHONE, FAX
3. SAMPLE LETTER PROVIDED
4. A SUMMARY OF THE BILL BY NAFSA  
5. WEB SITE: http://caledonian.cs.ucla.edu/~cssa
> =============================================================================
==


> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
-
  BAD NEWS, BAD BILL
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
-


Suppose you have F-1 visa, if someone tells you the following:

    * You need 2 years experience outside of the U.S. before you can apply
    	for H-1B ( called H-1 by most people ) visa.
    * Your employer has to pay 5% of your first years' salary and benefit and 
        more afterward, in order to hire you as an H-1B worker;
    * To get Labor Certificate, you must have THREE years of experience in the 
	profess ion outside the U.S. after obtaining advanced degree or equivalent, 
	or FIVE year s outside the U.S. if you have a baccalaureate degree.
    * You employer has to pay 25% of your annual salary and benefit as a newly-
	imposed fee for your Labor Certificate.


What would you think?


And the worst is, Alan Simpson, Chair of the Senate Immigration Subcommittee, 
wants to see his bill

   * gets marked up by Nov 13, while the bill was introduced on Nov 3. 

   * and eventually gets implemented by Oct 1, 1996.


Now, what would you think?


> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
-
   ACT NOW. HERE IS WHAT YOU CAN DO.
	- Email to each of the senators involved 
	- Email to 
	- Fax or phone each of the senators involved
	- Spread the words, and make your friend to act also
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
-


* ACTION I: EMAIL the members of Senate Immigration Subcommittee

     Alan Simpson, Chair  R-WY   
     Charles Grassley, R-IA      
     Jon Kyl, R-AZ               
     Arlen Specter, R-PA         Not available
     Edward Kennedy,  D-MA       
     Paul Simon,  D-IL           
     Dianne Fenstein, D-CA       


  To make it convenient, we also created an mail aliase for you 
	SO YOU CAN SEND LETTER TO ALL THE ABOVE 6 EMAIL ADDRESSES AT ONCE.

  All you need to do is send your letter to .


* ACTION II: Call or FAX the members of Senate Immigration Subcommittee

                                    Phone           Fax
     Alan Simpson, Chair  R-WY   202 224-3424    224-1315
     Charles Grassley, R-IA      202 224-3744    224-6020
     Jon Kyl, R-AZ               202 224-4521    224-2207
     Arlen Specter, R-PA         202 224-4254    224-1893
     Edward Kennedy,  D-MA       202 224-4543    224-2417
     Paul Simon,  D-IL           202 224-2152    224-0868
     Dianne Fenstein, D-CA       202 224-3841    228-3954

* Equally important, tell your friends to do so also. 


> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
   Here is a simple sample letter:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


November        , 1995

Senator__________________________
The U.S. Congress, Capitol Hill
Washington D.C.

Honorable Senator ___________________________:

I strongly oppose Simpson's bill S 1394, and  firmly  believe it is
an anti-immigration bill, which is substantially against immigrants,
against business,  and against the national interests of the United
States.

I hereby appeal to you :   please vote NO on  S1394 !

Sincerely,

(Signed)
Resident of
US Mailing Address:



> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  More detailed information 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

- Find the on line text of S1394: 
      * ftp://ftp.loc.gov/pub/thomas/c104/s1394.is.FTP 
      * Or to find status information, go to http://thomas.loc.gov/, select "10
4th Congress
       Bills", or "Bill Summary and Status for the 104th Congress", then do a s
earch on
       S1394. 

- Please watch activities in the Senate (gopher://ftp.senate.gov/),  
	and the House ( http://www.house.gov/Legproc.html ).

- Here is a summary by NAFSA, Association of International Educators. 



http://www.stolaf.edu/people/cdr/nafsa/

NAFSA: Association of International Educators 
(formerly the National Association for Foreign Student Affairs) 
is a non-profit membership association that provides training,
information, and other educational services to professionals in the 
field of international exchange.  Its 6,400 members -- from every state 
in the United States and more than 50 other countries --

 ----------
From: andyp
To: Multiple recipients of list INT
Subject: NAFSA No.345
Date: Wednesday, November 08, 1995 4:44PM

MEMORANDUM

DATE:     November 8, 1995 (2:00pm Eastern)

TO:       NAFSANet Users

FROM:     NAFSA Government Relations Department

RE:       Summary of Simpson Immigration Bill (NAFSA Update No.
          345)
> =================================================================

     Following is a detailed summary of the provisions which
impact international education that are in the Immigration Reform
Act of 1995 (S.1394).  A markup of this bill may occur as early
as next week.

     NAFSA is now turning to preparing advocacy materials that
you can use on campus to advocate against the draconian
provisions of the bill.  Those materials will be posted shortly.

> ================================================================
=========== Summary of Key Provisions of S.1394 ================
> ================================================================
                    "Immigration Reform Act of 1995"
           (as introduced by Senator Simpson November 3, 1995)

         Summary of Provisions Impacting International Education

                            November 8, 1995


I.   Foreign Students.

     A.   Adds new section ( 214(l)) to Immigration and
          Nationality Act titled "Admission of Student Visa
          Holders."

          1.   Student shall be admitted for period of study "at
               the specified academic level."

          2.   Student shall be expected to make "normal
               progress" toward obtaining his degree.

          3.   Attorney General may grant "limited extension of
               stay" to allow student to complete studies beyond
               the period "normally required."

     B.   Changes in definition of "students."

          1.   Access to language programs.  Students seeking
               English language training lasting less than six
               months shall enter on visitor visas
               ( 101(a)(15)(B)) and not student visas
               ( 101(a)(15)(F)).

          2.   Public primary and secondary schools foreign
               students would no longer require a student visa;
               private primary and secondary school foreign
               students, however, would.

     C.   Pilot Program for Tracking Foreign Students.

          1.   By January 1, 1998, Attorney General and Secretary
               of State shall jointly develop and conduct a pilot
               program to collect electronically data on select
               students.

          2.   Pilot program shall cover nationals of at least
               five countries (or any more the Attorney General
               and Secretary of State may designate).

          3.   All of the following information must be
               collected:

               a.   Whether an alien applying for an F, J, or M
                    visa has been issued an I-20 by an approved
                    academic institution, and the name of that
                    institution.

               b.   The date and place the visa was issued, the
                    category of visa, and the college/university
                    for which the visa was issued.

               c.   Whether the alien is enrolled in an approved
                    college/university, and the name of that
                    institution.

               d.   The student's current campus address.

               e.   Whether the student is in "good standing" at
                    an approved institution, is pursuing a full
                    course of study, is making "normal progress"
                    toward a degree, has withdrawn/been
                    expelled/suspended/placed on academic
                    probation/has transferred/graduated/or
                    attendance has otherwise terminated.

               f.   Whether the alien has been
                    expelled/suspended/placed on academic
                    probation/subjected to other disciplinary
                    action as a result of being convicted of a
                    crime.

          4.   Information will be shared with U.S.
               embassies/consulates and INS officers.

          5.   The Secretary of State shall impose and collect a
               fee on all F, J, and M visas issued; the Attorney
               General shall do likewise on all changes of status
               to such classifications.

               The fee will begin on April 1, 1997, and will
               initially be limited to no more than $100.  Funds
               collected shall be used to pay the costs of
               carrying out this pilot program.

          6.   A joint report by the Secretary of State and
               Attorney General will be required not later than
               five years after commencement of the pilot
               program.

          7.   Not later than six months after completing that
               report, the program will begin to be expanded to
               cover the nationals of all countries, with all
               foreign students subject within one year of the
               report's submission to Congress.

               The fee may be revised at any time after this
               report is submitted.

          8.   Information to be collected will be provided by
               colleges and universities as a condition of their
               approval to participate in the foreign student
               program.  If a college/university refuses to
               participate, they will not be able to issue I-20s.


   II.    H-1B Provisions.

     A.   Eliminates "dual intent" for H and L nonimmigrants;
          they will once again have to establish they are not
          intending immigrants before being allowed to enter the
          U.S.

     B.   Maximum validity of H-1Bs limited to a total of three
          years (instead of the current six).

     C.   New fee required by employers (which aliens cannot be
          assessed by employers) to be paid into specially
          designated private sector funds dedicated to increasing
          the competitiveness of U.S. workers and reducing
          employers reliance on foreign workers.

          1.   Fee will consist of a percentage of the alien's
               annual compensation (including wages, benefits,
               and other compensation).

          2.   Year 1 = 5 percent; Year 2 = 7.5%; and Year 3 = 10
               percent.

          3.   Employers who do not pay the fee will be subject
               to  a civil penalty of $5000 for each violation,
               payment of the late fee, and disqualification for
               one year from petitioning for any immigrant or
               nonimmigrant workers.

     D.   Attestation Changes.

          1.   Wage Level Terminology.
               a.   Term to be modified from "wages" to
                    "compensation (including wages, benefits, and
                    all other compensation)".

               b.   "Actual Wage" redefined as "100 percent of
                    the prevailing level of compensation"
                    (including benefits, etc.).

               c.   "Prevailing Wage" redefined as "105 percent
                    of the prevailing level of compensation"
                    (including benefits, etc.).

          2.   No Layoff Attestation Required.
               a.   No layoff of other workers with substantially
                    equivalent, or greater, qualifications
                    (including experience) within 6 months
                    preceding the date of filing the LCA, unless
                    the employer pays actual compensation of at
                    least 105% of the arithmetic mean of the
                    highest compensation earned by such laid off
                    employees.

               b.   No layoff within the 90 days following filing
                    the LCA, unless same requirements as above
                    are met.

               c.   "Laid off" defined as meaning the employee's
                    loss of employment other than a discharge for
                    cause or a voluntary departure or voluntary
                    retirement.

          3.   Recruitment of U.S. workers attestation required.

          4.   Steps to end dependence on foreign workers
               attestation required, including the following:

               a.   Operating a program of training for existing
                    employees (or funding employees'
                    participation in such programs elsewhere).

               b.   Providing career development programs.

               c.   Paying U.S. workers compensation that is
                    equal to more than 105 percent of the
                    compensation paid to persons similarly
                    employed in the geographic area.

               d.   Providing facilities and services to increase
                    to productivity of U.S. workers, in order to
                    decrease the number of aliens who are needed.

               e.   Providing reasonable opportunities for
                    meaningful increases in compensation to U.S.
                    workers.

               Employers must decrease by at least 10 percent in
               two consecutive years the percentage of his total
               number of nonimmigrant workers.

     E.   Experience Requirement:  At least 2 years experience
          must be obtained outside the U.S. after obtaining the
          most recently received degree before an alien can
          obtain an H visa.

     F.   Prevailing Wage Determination:  Shall not be considered
          to vary depending on the characteristics of the
          employer (including whether or not the employer is an
          institution of higher education), except where the
          Secretary of Labor finds that working conditions or the
          functional requirements of the job warrant such a
          distinction.

  III.    Employment-Based Permanent Immigration.

     A.   Immigrants Exempt from Labor Certification.

          1.   Up to 90,000 aliens with "extraordinary ability,"
               including but not limited to professors and
               researchers, provided

               a.   They have extraordinary ability in the
                    sciences, arts, education, business, or
                    athletics, which has been demonstrated by
                    sustained national or international acclaim
                    and their achievements have been recognized
                    in the field through extensive documentation.

               b.   Or they have the potential for this
                    achievement that has been shown through
                    extensive documentation of their record over
                    a 10 year period after the completion of
                    formal education or training, including their
                    receipt of internationally recognized prizes
                    and the testimony of appropriate experts.

               They must also seek to continue work in the area
               of extraordinary ability and their admission must
               substantially benefit prospectively the United
               States.

          2.   Also exempt are multinational executives and
               managers, investors, and certain special
               immigrants (e.g. religious workers).


     B.   Immigrants Subject to Labor Certification Requirement.

          1.   Aliens who are members of the professions holding
               advanced degrees.

               a.   Alien must have three years of experience in
                    the profession outside the U.S. after
                    obtaining advanced degree or equivalent.

               b.   Alien's services must be sought by an
                    employer.

               c.   Alien must pass an English literacy test.


          2.   Professionals with baccalaureate degrees.

               a.   Alien must have five years of experience
                    outside the U.S. after receipt of their
                    degree.

               b.   Alien's services must be sought by an
                    employer.

               c.   Alien must pass an English literacy test.


          3.   Skilled Workers.


     C.   Repeals Diversity/Lottery Program.

     D.   Conditional Residency Program.

          1.   Establishes conditional residency program (similar
               to what is in place for immigration based on
               marriage to a U.S. citizen).

          2.   Alien will be notified 90 days before the second
               anniversary of his obtaining his conditional
               status.

          3.   If alien no longer employed by same employer, or
               is not paid the attested wage, status will be
               terminated.

          4.   Waiver of this requirement after two years is
               available if the alien was not paid the attested
               wage, for reasons beyond the alien's control
               (including layoffs and business failure), or if
               employment ended due to unfair labor practice by
               employer.

     E.   Eliminates Special Handling (currently found at
           212(a)(5)(A)(ii)).

     F.   New Fee Required.

          1.   Employers must pay a fee equal to 25 percent of
               the value of the immigrant worker's annual
               compensation into a private fund certified by the
               Secretary of Labor.

          2.   The fund will be dedicated to increasing the
               competitiveness of U.S. workers and reducing the
               dependence of employers on alien workers.

          3.   This fee cannot be passed onto alien workers.

     G.   Provides for Certifications of Shortages/Surpluses.




NAFSA GOVERNMENT RELATIONS DEPARTMENT
Andrew J. Prazuch, Director )
Matthew Schulze, Government Relations Analyst )
Andrew Jacobson, Gov. Rel. Associate )
Gail Ferrari, Public Affairs Coordinator )
Pearl Kruger, Administrative Secretary )


1UP5032
November 8, 1995

An American family (two adult couples) is seeking a homestay with a family in
Budapest for a few days in May 1996.  It is their hope that the homestay will
include an opportunity to spend some time with the host family and that the 
hosts will direct the family to selected places and events in the city.  The
families are professionals in the fields of hotel management, and science.
They are not fluent in Hungarian.  Compensation to the host family will be
provided.   

Please contact 
                                  
or  
                            

to arrange for contacts. Thanks.

-- 
> -----------------------------------------|-------/\---/\-------/\--------
2316 Bluff             Tel:(303)449 1706 |      /~~\ /~~\/\ /\/~~\       
Boulder, CO 80303      Fax:(303)442 9125 |     /    \   /  \  \   \       
------------- MOLNAR, Gabor -------------|-University of Colorado, Boulder

An American family (two adult couples) is seeking a homestay with a family in
Budapest for a few days in May 1996.  It is their hope that the homestay will
include an opportunity to spend some time with the host family and that the 
hosts will direct the family to selected places and events in the city.  The
families are professionals in the fields of hotel management, and science.
They are not fluent in Hungarian.  Compensation to the host family will be
provided.   

Please contact ' or '
to arrange for contacts. Thanks!
-- 
> -----------------------------------------|-------/\---/\-------/\--------
2316 Bluff             Tel:(303)449 1706 |      /~~\ /~~\/\ /\/~~\       
Boulder, CO 80303      Fax:(303)442 9125 |     /    \   /  \  \   \       
------------- MOLNAR, Gabor -------------|-University of Colorado, Boulder

Alexander Bossy > wrote:
>
>	He more-or-less dismissed the archeological evidence out of hand.  He 
>didn't argue it.

Oh, he argued it plenty! If I wasn't so bored by the subject, I would
dig out the relevant parts from my archives.
>
>	Liviu's linguistic analysis of Romanian and Alabanian was
>certainly far beyond anything that I could provide on my own.  But, they 
>are meaningless UNLESS you accept his claim that Dacian and Illyrian 
>COULD NOT HAVE BEEN distantly related.  That is something that no one can 
>prove since we just don't have records of Illyrian and Dacian to know.  

It's interesting to note that when he used a similar argument saying
that finding a Roman vase is no proof of the ethnicity of its owner,
you were not impressed.  Yet, a lot of so called "archeological proof"
of Daco-Roman continuity is based on this kind of logic.

>That means that his analysis of the languages, while very detailed, and 
>interesting no doubt, can't be used to prove (or disprove) your 
>Out-of-Illyria pet theory.

As if I was the only one with that theory, right?

>: Really?  How about some names and titles from those Hungarians?
>
>	I can't give them to you any longer.  I don't keep records of 
>everything that I do for eight or nine months in case you suddenly get 
>curious.  (And you didn't ask for names and titles last winter).  If you 

Hah!  This is a good one!  You rub the candy under my nose by claiming
something I find highly interesting, then when challenged to produce
the evidence, you pass the ball back to me.  Alexander!  It was you who
brought it up, not me!   Knowing how you involved your ego in that old
debate, I would at least think that if nothing else, you would save
such a powerfool "proof" as Hungarian authors supporting the Romanian
point of view!  And don't tell me that I didn't ask you for it last
winter, because to my recollection, you never mentioned this before.
The only reference I recall you coming up with after some prompting was the
tome of a Romanian author.  I certainly would have remembered a
Hungarian one in your support!  That would be news to me, but not a
Romanian author.

>	I was looking for ANY accademic support of Out-of-Illyria, so 
>that I could address any credible counter-arguments to Romanian 
>continuity.  I looked at all kinds of books: histories of Hungary 
>translated from Hungarian, histories of Transylvania, etc. etc.  While 

But Alexander!  You've already forgotten your long arguments with Liviu?
He cited plenty of works supporting the Out-of-Illiria argument.
Why don't you go back and re-read his responses?

>(mostly because there was so much less back then).  The post-1976 books 
>that I looked at UNIVERSALY accepted Romanian continutiy.  If you have 

How many of them were REAL experts on the subject who had no Romanian
background?  I mean there are a lot of books whose main subject might be
something else, but in order to give a fuller background, out of lazyness
they lift the history of Transylvania part from Romanian sources.
What do you think, for instance, how do those history summaries get into
various travel books?  You don't really think that the "Fodor's Guide"
publisher would invest big bucks in original history research?

(BTW, how credible are Hungarian - well magyarized Slovak names - that haven't 
>published a book).

I'm not sure whom you are talking about.  Is this supposed to be a cheap
shot?  What have magyarized Slovak names to do with anything (as if you
recognized them, in any case)?  The Bossy name doesn't sound exactly
Romanian, either. ;-)

>	And who exactly is *S*?  Which Romanian historians was he 
>refering to?  Who were their international coleagues?  Surely you don't 
>expect me to spend any time thinking about a paragraph filled with so 
>many gaps.

Reading his post, an objective person would have no trouble recognizing
that he knows what he is talking about.  I took his statement to be a
general indictment of today's Romanian historians, hence no names were
given.  However, as with all such generalizations, some exceptions to it
are usually understood without actually saying it.  That's how I took
it.
>
>: Yeap, and you didn't come out of it looking very good. ;-)
>
>	I came out as well as Romania came out in Trianon ;-) 

You mean with a bunch of stolen goods?  No, ... I don't think you stole
anything besides my time. ;-)

Joe

CHARLES VAMOSSY ) wrote:
> I can't help but reflect on the recent vote in Quebec and how a similar 
> vote might have taken place in Transylvania.

> The original French settlers of Quebec at one point lost the war against 
> the English and became a part of English speaking Canada.  For over 250 
> years they resisted the obvoius urging of the rest of Canada to forget 
> their culture and language, to pass laws and write official documents in 
> English and eventually, melt into the English speaking nation.

> Canada, much to it's credit, supported Quebec's claim to language and 
> culture, and wrote it into their constitution.  This is so much so, that 
> today, if anything, it is the French in Quebec who restrict English.

    This is just an observation because I don't care one way or the next 
about the language that students in romania learn in.  However you might 
take the recent vote in quebec as a motive to stop lingual diversity in 
transylvania.  This has happened in the united states where a congress 
man (from my state even)as a result of recent event in Canada has 
introduced a law that will effectly outlaw the teaching of lower level 
classes in languages other than english.  Spanish is the target of this 
law and the reasoning is if you allow a distinct culture to enter and not 
assimalate then you will eventually face division and the cultures 
clash.  I would like to avoid flames by pointing out that I do NOT agree 
with this law and feel that americans being mostly mono-lingual is a 
disadvantage.  

> But I can't help but wonder if Romania, having taken over Transylvania as 
> war booty from the 
> loosing Hungarian side, would afford the same human rights to its 
> Hungarian minority as Canada does to the French.  Would Romania give the 
> same constitutional guarantees of language and culture as Canada?  

   I think there are lots-o-people on this group that would disagree with 
you on this point seeing as how Hungry got Transylvania in the first 
place, but I will leave that point to others who know more about it. 

> And 
> should the Hungarians in Transylvania decide to test their strength and 
> call for a referendum about autonomy -- would Romania conduct the polling 
> with the same scrupulous fairness as Canada did?

    They would loose so does it matter?

> If Romania is truly a democratic nation serious about joining the ranks 
> of Western democracies, the answer surely must be yes.  

    No this point is not a blocking issue in "ranks of Western 
democracies" However Romania's relations with Hungry are a issue and 
Romania may have to deal with the language issue before it can deal with 
Hungarian relations.


Regards,
Scott

I'm looking for information sources or information Ferenc Kazinczy. 
Specificaly information on his life or even family tree. 

He modernized the Hungarian language. 


Thanks for your help


Todd Conkey

Naturland RT based in Mosonmagyarovar is proud of the fact that they are
the first Hungarian company to own a business in Canada.  Naturland Canada
is located in Mississauga, Ontario and distributes Naturland's high quality
plant derived health care products.  Visit out home page, 

http://www.naturland.com/rheuma/

-- 

Hi there,i am collecting (un)used telephone cards.
If you have some please contact me.
I will trade you dutch stamps,coins,telephone cards,postcards
anything.
So please e-mail me at 
Bye rob

 (Wally Keeler) wrote:
>Subject: Re: Quebec and/or Transylvania
>
>CHARLES VAMOSSY ) wrote:
>: [...]
>: Hungarian minority as Canada does to the French.  Would Romania give the 
>: same constitutional guarantees of language and culture as Canada?  And 
>: should the Hungarians in Transylvania decide to test their strength and 
>: call for a referendum about autonomy -- would Romania conduct the polling 
>: with the same scrupulous fairness as Canada did?
>
>Please note that Quebec's chief electoral officer will be investigating
>some irregularities. In the three ridings of Chomedey, Laurier-Dorion and
>Maguerite-Bourgeoys there were "an abnormally high number of spoiled
>ballots." 11.6% of ballots were judged as spoiled in Chomedey. This
>contrasted with the 1.1% rejection rate in the same riding for the Sept.
>1994 election. In 24 polls there were more than 20% of the votes rejected
>and in a handful of polls more than half were rejected. 5426 votes were
>rejected in Chomedey compared to only 435 in the previous years election.
>All three ridings had significantly high federalist support with a high-
>percentage of non-francophone voters. 
>
>Now rethink your proposal: do you want Romania to conduct their theoretical
>referendum the same way?
>-- 
>Wally Keeler					Poetry
>Creative Intelligence Agency			is
>Peoples Republic of Poetry			Poetency

I think I would be quite satisfied if ANY election in Romania had the 
same quality.

 wrote:
>Dan:
>
>Since you appear to be a white boy you have probably never heard the 
>words of the Eternal Buddha Sakyamuni.  Please obtain a copy of the Lotus 
>Sutra and read it very carefully.  I will be happy to assist you in this 
>effort so that you will learn eough to lift the veil of illusion from in 
>front of your face and will no longer rely on nonexistent deities and 
>instead will rely on your own innate buddha-nature.
>
>Namu Myoho Renge Kyo
>
>with gasho
>
>John 
>

But, John: 

Can a Soviet have buddha-nature?

with gasho

- nguyen tri duc

>But, John: 
>
>Can a Soviet have buddha-nature?
>
>with gasho
>
>- nguyen tri duc
>

A difficulty question.  However, even mindless parasites have a 
buddha-nature. Since most of the posts from the Vorobieff bangers appear 
to operate at that level, I would have to say yes.  I know it is not 
apparent but it must be there.  

Namu Myoho Renge Kyo

with gasho and a ;-),

john

In > CHARLES VAMOSSY > w
rites:

>The vote a couple of days days ago is of little consequence to me 
>personally, since I do not live in that country.  But I can't help but 
>wonder if Romania, having taken over Transylvania as war booty from the 
>loosing Hungarian side, would afford the same human rights to its 
>Hungarian minority as Canada does to the French.  Would Romania give the 
>same constitutional guarantees of language and culture as Canada?  And 
>should the Hungarians in Transylvania decide to test their strength and 
>call for a referendum about autonomy -- would Romania conduct the polling 
>with the same scrupulous fairness as Canada did?

Unlike Canada and Switzerland, Romania is not a federal country.
Besides, Transylvania doesn't have a Hungarian majority (otherwise,
Transylvania would have never been given as "war booty" to Romania --
some people constantly forget that Transylvania went to Romania as the
result of a selfdetermination process).
The Quebec province does have a French majority.  So, I fail to see any
similarity between Quebec and Transylvania.  I must be missing something.

>If Romania is truly a democratic nation serious about joining the ranks 
>of Western democracies, the answer surely must be yes.  

How about other Western democracies, like France, which don't even 
admit having ethnic minorities?  Romania is considerably better off WRT
minority rights than many Western democracies.  This fact was acknowledged
by most Western delegations which came to Romania to investigate the 
situation of the minorities, especially as a result of the complaints of
the Hungarians.

Dan
--
Dan Pop
CERN, CN Division
Email:  
Mail:  CERN - PPE, Bat. 31 R-004, CH-1211 Geneve 23, Switzerland