wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 18 Feb 1997 13:14:40 -0800, Erika Kiss > wrote:
> >Kiegeszites keppen 10 filleres alapon:
> >
> >parti 10 f
> >piros parti 20 f (piros mindig dupla)
> >ulti 40 f + nyert parti eseten 10 f
> >piros ulti 80 f + nyert parti eseten 20 f
> >betli 50 f
> 
> Mi a szo~sz!  Holgyek is szoktak ultizni?
> 
> PJ


Esetleg van valami kifogasod ultizo holgyek ellen? Ki allitja hogy csak 
ferfiak tudnak ultizni? 

Erika

>Subject: Translation help
>Date: 19 Feb 1997 04:13:15 GMT
>From: 
>Organization: Northwest Nexus Inc.
>Newsgroups: soc.culture.magyar
>
>I am trying to figure out the best translation of the word "contempt",
>especially as it's used in expressions such as "contempt of the Court",
>or Contempt of Congress (Parliament).  Somehow the
>word "megvete's" or "lene'ze's" don't sound right in such expressions.
>
>Any takers?
>
>Joe

"contempt of court"

(a punishable act of showing _disrespect for the
authority or dignity_ of a court [or legislature], as:
disobedience, unruliness etc.)

Ha

        "a megidezett nem jelenik meg (szemelyesen)
        a birosag elott",

akkor az

        "tiszteletlenseg a birosag irant"?
        "megvete's a birosag irant"?
        ("birosag iranti engedetlenseg"?)

        ("nem tartja tiszteletben a birosagot"?)
        ("a birosag ellen cselekszik"? "megserti a birosagot"?)
        [cf. -> 'hatosagi ko:zeg/hivatalos ko:zeg megsertese']

        ('nem tisztel, nem vesz figyelembe'??)

        ("semmibeveves"??)

(How about the "sci.lang.translation" ng.?)

udv.,
g

The Russian Dance School of Ottawa and the Hungarian Folkdance
Chamber Group will present a Benefit Concert to raise funds for
the children of Chernobyl, Thursday, March 6, 1997, 7:30 pm, at
Sir Robert Borden High School, 131 Greenbank, Ottawa, Ontario,
Canada.

From today's Reuter service:
/////////////////////////////////////////////
Reuters ) wrote:
   	  				 
 	 WASHINGTON (Reuter) - The head of the Russian Communist  
 Party warned the West Thursday that expanding NATO to include 
 former Soviet allies would be the worst mistake since the end of 
 the Second World War. 
 	 Party leader Gennady Zyuganov cited U.S. Russia scholar  
 George Kennan who, Zyuganov said, had termed the proposed 
 eastward expansion of NATO ``the major mistake of the after-war 
 period.'' 
 	 ``I share this view,'' Zyuganov told the U.S.-Russia  
 Business Forum, a private group. He said Russia was ``in a 
 difficult phase right now'' and threatened no one, making 
 expansion of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization totally 
 unnecessary. 
 	 The 16-nation NATO is poised to offer membership to East  
 European countries that were once Soviet allies during a summit 
 in Madrid in early July. The most likely candidates for early 
 membership are Poland, the Czech Republic and Hungary. 
 	 Zyuganov, whose comments were translated consecutively into  
 English, said the alternative was to give certain unspecified 
 ''conditions and promises'' to Eastern European countries. He 
 did not make clear who should give any such promises. 
 	 Eastern Europe would then serve as a ``bridge between the  
 West and the Russian Federation, which would enhance cooperation 
 and secure stability in the region,'' he said. 
 	 Zyuganov, on a five-day visit to the United States, was  
 defeated by Boris Yeltsin in Russia's presidential election 
 runoff last July. He leads the largest faction in the Duma, the 
 lower house of parliament. 
   	   
////////////////////////////////////////////////////

I just wonder why does Mr. Zyuganov bring upon himself the responsibility
for the Poles, Czechs, Hungarians and other peoples of the so called
Eastern Europe?.  Old customs die hard?  We have come a long way, babe!

Recently, there has been a rush of diplomatic activity directed at
discrediting the will of Eastern Europe countries to join NATO.
Unfortunately, much like during the cold war era, there is no shortage of
Western leftists called to come out of the woods to preach the Russian
line of arguments, disregarding legitimate security worries of the
countries which were under soviet yoke for so long.

It's a pity that after the collapse of Soviet Union, those hard-core,
weathered commies still are in the position to preach the Brezhniev
doctrine worldwide.  

Kurica nie ptica, Polsza nie zagranica?	

Leszek

On Wed, 26 Feb 1997 18:11:11 -0500, Peter
> wrote:

>Cristian Chelariu wrote:
>> 
>> Your country brought death, distruction, loss of individual freedom and
>> dignity and economic stagnation for all the nations in Eastern Europe. If
>> I would be in your place, I would keep my mouth shut and lower my head in
>> shame. 
>
>yeah right. And where were you guys all the time? It's sure easy
>to blame everything on Russians. Wasn't Chaushesku Romanian?

His tyranical regiem was impossed on Romania against the will of the
Romanian people by the Soviet army of occupation.

>Wasn't Kadar Hungarian?

His tyranical regiem was impossed on Hungary against the will of the
Hungarian people by the Soviet army of occupation.

> Honeker - German?

His tyranical regiem was impossed on East Germany against the will of
the East Germans by the Soviet army of occupation.

>Yaruzel'ski - Polish?

His tyranical regiem was impossed on Poland against the will of the
Polish people by the Soviet army of occupation.

>And don't tell me their regimes wouldn't survive without Soviet help.

The East Germans and the Hungarians overthrew their Soviet impossed
dictatorships within the first decade.  The Soviets came right back
and reimpossed them.  And, in 1989, when it became clear that the
Soviets wouldn't help these communist regimes survive every single one
immediately collapsed.  And, with the exception of Ceaucescu, none of
the communist regiems could even stomach bloodshed to remain in power.

>Perhaps you heard that Austria and Norway were liberated from Nazis
>by Soviet troops.

Soviet troops only occupied eastern Austria, and they withdrew as part
of a treaty that made Austria a neutral state.  Soviet troops did not
liberate Norway.

> They just had the guts to say no to commies.
>And you didn't until 80s.

The Soviet occupation forces faced extensive guerrila wars throughout
the captive states well into the 1950's and still had to face
continued, though much less organized armed resistance into the
1960's.  They just were willing to take the casualties to impose an
evil system on their western neighbors. :-(

Alexander

I have edited my return address in order to avoid the
gross excess in junk e-mail infesting the net. 
To e-mail me, just remove the word spamfree
from my address.

Hungarian diaspora are, predictably, mixed in their reaction to NATO
overtures.  As Rodica Perciali's posting makes clear, they have good
reason to be cautious.  It is good to see a lengthy, well-thought-out
approach to the problem which deals mainly with economic, and not
military, issues.  NATO has long since ceased to be a viable military
body, but it does have significant economic clout.

Above all, Hungary must avoid Americanization.  Free markets are fine,
even desirable, but they are no more American than potatoes.  Hungary
needs its own brand on whatever economic system it embraces.  No riches
can replace a national identity.

What I love so much about Hungary is the fierce defense of the nation's
identity by the people who live there.  America has forgotten that, if she
ever knew it at all.  NATO must not be allowed to homogenize Eastern
Europe.

Kristof

>:
Distribution: 

Lena ) wrote:
: And I do feel ashamed even though I love Russia, which I
: consider my mother land, very much. I hope, I pray that sometime this 
: chaos will end and Russia will become a civilized country. But right now I
: believe we have no moral right to tell other nations or countries what
: they should or should not do. I also don't think it's a good idea to call
: them names, to say that they are small, or insecure, or simply stupid. It
: is not the best way to become good neighbors. 
: Yelena.

I must admit there is long time since I've read such a well written 
and well felt posting. I am sorry if in a moment of anger I called names
on russians. I have very good russian friends and I respect and admire
russian culture. This posting shows that with wisdom and simplicity we
can forgive (not forget, but forgive) the mistakes of the past, understand
the present and put our hopes in the future. A truly spiritually
refreshing posting.
God bless you, Yelena!

Cristian Chelariu

On Wed, 26 Feb 1997 19:27:53 -0500, Gabor Barsai 
.edu> wrote:
>
>Gyerekek! Ezek szerint nem ismertetek eleg latin-amerikai not, mert akkor
>nem mondanatok ilyesmit...

Milyen jo, hogy az izlesek ilyen valtozok! Kulonben minden krapek
ugyazokra a nokre hajtana.
Gabor, tolem elviheted az osszes latin not!  Csak tereld a lengyeleket
errefele. ;-) 

Joe Pannon
----------
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On 23 Feb 1997 21:49:23 GMT,  (elena danielyan)
wrote:

>In article >,
>Mr. Kudla > wrote:
>>In article >,  says.
..

>       I think, your posts are penetrated with frustration, hate
>        and hypocricy. That's an impression they make. If you hate
>        russians as a nation, you would refrain to talk on this
>        subject. 

So, Comrad Elena "the Lair" Danielyan, we meet again.  Out of
curiosity, since when have you stopped posting "posts [that are] are
penetrated with frustration, hate and hypocricy"?  It was certainly
your speciality when you strenuously strove to convince us that
Romania should retain a communist dictatorship rather than replace him
with a democratic government.
>        That's how civilized mind works ;-)

You haven't got the least idea about what a mind is, let alone what a
civilized mind is.

>    Russia's economy is on unprecedented grow,
>    nevertheless of broken economic structures and wild "reform"
>     of the last years.
>    Despite of "western prognoses", Russia has not and will not
>     ""go down to drain"", e.g. become the source of the cheap
>     raw materials, slave labor market and consumer of cheap
>     western junk, as it was expected. 

This isn't anything to take seriously; Comrad Elena "the Lair"
Danielyan periodically posts long diatribes about the glorries of
communism in general and the Soviet Union in particular.  They never
have any supporting evidence; after all, she remains blissfully
unaquaintanced with the truth.


>        That's why this NATO hysteria. Russia today is no
>          no threat to anyone. But it is a COMPETITOR, if not
>           today, then for real tomorrow. So she has to be
>         "made" a threat. "West" doesn't know another way to
>          compete but in wars, cold or hot ones. And first
>          who will be brought in sacrifice, if it comes to it,
>          will be certainly EE countries. That's why this rush
>          to grab them into military alliance, that's to make sure
>           there will be no independent decisions taken in
>           their "capitals".

Comrad Elena "the Lair" Danielyan of course considers the "independent
decisions taken" in the aftermath of WWII by the puppet regiems that
Moscow imposed on Central and Eastern Europe quite impressive in
contrast.

Alexander
Comrad Elena "the Lair" Danielyan's Class Enemy

I have edited my return address in order to avoid the
gross excess in junk e-mail infesting the net. 
To e-mail me, just remove the word spamfree
from my address.

In article > Laszlo Horvath 
tanford.edu> writes:
>From: Laszlo Horvath >

Now, that's a hotblooded Hungarian -or Shakespeare's Hotspur! By golly 
George! I like your temper. But read those lines over again! I had thought 
you were just kidding and not serious. So in the same spirit, 
"tongue-in-cheek" I remarked that after all we should refrain from booing 
you. You just "huzzni akartad" the Poetician. For the world I wouldn't have 
believed that you lied. But since you now admit that you really meant it I 
will say that yes, a booh for you and three cheers for Wally. Whether he 
bragged or not and engaged in bravado (bravado, by the way, is pretended 
courage or feigned confidence), his bravado agrees with me and let us piss on 
graves of human sacred cows. Wally seems to have as much mettle as any body.

So Gyurikam, if you perceive that I accused you of lying then I most 
certainly apologize. But then, if you were not just teasing Wally and you 
meant it then I feel kind of sorry for you.

Sincerely, Laszlo
> ===============================================================
Well, if you think that pissing on a dead man's grave is greater than 
criticizing the dictator, that I guess I feel sorry for you, too.
Regards,
GK
>> Where did this school master stuff come from?

 () writes:
>>Mikor lathatjuk az osszehasonlito elemzes bizonyitekaul szolgalo 
>>fenykepsorozatot?  ;->

>Jo kerdes, azonban attol felek azzal valahogy ugy jartam, mint a
>mindenkepen levegoben maradni akaro lufis nelkulozheto targyai az
>utolso homokzsak kidobasa utan: ki lettek "rekesztve".  Csak az en
>esetemben nem a levegoben, hanem valahol az Adria kek vizeben.
>Tehat marad egyszeruen a szavam.  Vagy csak nem azt akarod mondani, hogy
>az nem eleg? ;-)

>Joe Pannon

De eleg. Fenykepekkel sokkal jobb buli lett volna, de a Te szavad megfelelo 
biztositek.
GK

On 2 Mar 1997 09:54:08 GMT, RT765 > wrote:
>ANSWER: THE NON EOUROPEANS LIKE  HUNS OR MONGOLS

Wrong, you yellow racist pig, hiding under anonimity!  The Gypsies are 
Arians, just like the Slavs and Western Europeans are.  
The Hungarians are not.

-- 
Joe Pannon
----------
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removing the "antiSPAM." part from it.  I have altered the address
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elena danielyan ) wrote:

: >> I would be in your place, I would keep my mouth shut and lower my head in
: >> shame. 

:       One who lives today has to "lower head in shame" for
:       what has happened 50 years ago. Sounds familiar, isn't it!

OK, I got your point, comrade Elena, nobody should lower their head in
shame for what their parents did. But at least they should keep their
mouths shut.
 
Cristian

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  -- Charles Dickens, _The Pickwick Papers_

In article >, "Istvan
Lippai" > wrote:

> > > > Lippai" > wrote
> > > Gondolod, hogy azert olyan savanyu a tudod-ki-a-tudod-melyik-listan,
> mert
> > > nem hivtak bulira?
> 
> Gabor Barsai > wrote 
> > Nem tudom, lehet, hogy azert savanyu, mert sokszor keresztbe tettek neki,
> > vagy mint irtad, semmisegekert zaklattak (pl. irtad: 
> 
> Honnan tudod, kirol beszelek?  Talan valakirol a Kamcsatkai listan
> beszelek.

Fogalmam sincs, gondoltam a Horvath Laszlorol beszeltel. Ha nem, akkor kirol?

Gabor

John Walker wrote:

> The favorite drink in Poland is no longer vodka --- it is champagne.
> I hope Poland's post-communist rulers will realize  the symbolic meaning.

And France agrees?

Yury, another one

On 2 Mar 1997 21:55:47 GMT, aheringer > wrote:
>
>Jo, jo, de miert kell ugyanazt a story-t hatszor leadni? 

Mert nyilvan ugy gondolkodik mint a legtobb propogandista:
addig kell ismetelni amig valami vegul ragad.

Joe Pannon
----------
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On 3 Mar 1997 05:25:23 GMT, Teri Bicok > wrote:
>
>I saw Steve Bognar, the filmmaker, at another conference, and he is not 
>very involved in Hungarian associations.  From the film you can observe, 
>that although he believes he is neither Hungarian, nor Dutch (mother's 
>ethnicity), and claims that he is American, the Hungarian heritage and 
>culture is correctly represented. 

Steve was supposed to appear at the showing of his documentary in
Seattle, but he cancelled at the last moment due to some other
engagement.  Yes, it was obvious that to him Hungarian culture was a
foreign one, but in a way, this made his story more believable.  What I
don't quite fathom is the child raising attitude of many 56-ers, like
Bela himself, who though consider themselves very Hugarian, they often
tried to isolate their children from that culture with the false expectation
that this way their kids will be more successful in America.  I've seen this
even at my older brother back in NJ, who is also a 56-er.  I think this is a
totally false premise, repudiated by those kids who were very active in 
the Hungarian Scout Movement in the US.

What do you think, Teri?  Am I off my rockers with this notion?

Joe Pannon
----------
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Gabor Barsai > wrote 
> Ez erdekes kozmondas, de van ertelme? A lo eppen azert botlik, mert negy
> laba van! A giliszta pl. soha nem botlik. 

Azt magyarazkodtam, hogy az Internet nekem eleg uj.  Talan az a legnagyobb
problema, hogy nem latni a masik embert akinek az uzenetet olvasod vagy
uzenetere valaszolsz.  Igy aztan egyparszor kemenyen melle fogtam. 
Tobbnyire 'osztonossen' megereztem, hogy ki aki igazan utalatos es azokkal
nem is banok utalatossan banni.  De volt egy ket ember akit nem jol
'olvastam', es amikor a honfitarsaimmal levelezek, akkor egy komoly
megbantas is sok.  Ezert probaltam neked is meg Horvath Laszlovnak is
'most' tapintatossabban valaszolni.

Az 'aheringer' legutobbi levelebol, lattam, hogy serteni akar:

"Es ezt meg le sem tudom forditani valakinek, aki nem ert 
magyarul es nem ismery Karinthyt!  Agnes"

Hasonloan valaszoltam, mert a levelebol lattam, hogy 'tenyleg' bantani
akart.

Istvan

In article >, "Istvan
Lippai" > wrote:

> Amint mondtam, negy laba van a lonak...
> Istvan

Ez erdekes kozmondas, de van ertelme? A lo eppen azert botlik, mert negy
laba van! A giliszta pl. soha nem botlik. 

Gabor

In article >, "Istvan
Lippai" > wrote:

> Gabor Barsai > wrote 
> > Ez erdekes kozmondas, de van ertelme? A lo eppen azert botlik, mert negy
> > laba van! A giliszta pl. soha nem botlik. 
> 
> Azt magyarazkodtam, hogy az Internet nekem eleg uj.  Talan az a legnagyobb
> problema, hogy nem latni a masik embert akinek az uzenetet olvasod vagy
> uzenetere valaszolsz.  Igy aztan egyparszor kemenyen melle fogtam. 

Nem, nem gunyolni vagy bantani probaltam, hanem egyszeruen a kozmondas
tartalma eleg ellentmondo. Boccs a hirtelen temavaltasert. 

Ilyen pl. "Jart utat ne hagyj el jaratlanert" de "Aki mer za nyer"...vagy
"Aki kivancsi, hamar megoregszik" viszont "Szemesnek all a vilag". Es ezek
utan a Pannon kerdi, mitol olyan ongyilkos nep a magyar! 

Gabor

In article > MEgorov writes:

>REMINDER
>ARE HUNGARIANS MONGOLS? (Revised Version)Version 3

>There are many more credible sources like these.

Yeah. Just like these.
BORING!

On 27 Feb 1997 18:47:58 GMT,  wrote:

>In article >, Radu Murgescu > wr
ites:

>>Dnii Liviu Cananau si Dr. Mircea Roman si cu mine vom participa la
>>simpozion, reprezentind Romanian Lobby. 

>Hold on just a minute!   "Rumanian ...Lobby?????"

The name is spelled R*O*manian.  Using a "u" is offensive.

>Support for Rumania joining NATO ?   You've gotta be kidding!

There is not insignificant support for Romania's admission into NATO
as a first tier country.  Even if Romania doesn't make it under the
wire into the first tier, she will assuredly be included in the second
tier.

> Rumania does not DESERVE (for the time being) to be admitted to the Atlantic 
Alliance. Period.

Any specific reason why?  After all, she's got a democratic
government, respects minority rights, and is in the process of
reforming her economy.  All of these are *major* changes from the
neo-communist regime, and should be rewarded.

[stupid claim that any wars that Wallachia or Moldavia faught with
Hungary half a millenium ago is proof of an anti-Western ideological
bias snipped]

As much of a shock as it may come to you, Hungary does not, by itself,
constitute Western Europe.  In fact, it is a *Central* European
country, not a *Western* European country.  The fact that it is
geographically situated to the west of Romania is universally
acknowledged and irrelevant to the discussion of NATO enlargement.

>More recently, Rumania was the most totalitarian Communist regime of the so ca
lled Warsaw Pact.
>Nicolae Ceausescu admired the 'Chinese Model' and Ion Iliescu loved  the 'Japa
nese Model'  to build the new Rumanian society.

In case you didn't notice, Ceacucescu and Iliescu have been removed
from office, the first one in a full fledged bloody revolution.  Their
brutality and their ideologies aren't those of the new Romanian
government, nor those of a majority of the Romanian population.  They
are no more relevant to Romania's adhession to NATO than the brutality
of the Arrow Cross is to Hungary's adhession to NATO.

However, your post doesn't do Hungary's adhession to NATO any good;
NATO remains very worried about importing another Greek-Turkish kind
of conflict, and made reconciliation between Romania and Hungary a
condition for the admission of either country.  Predictions of a
Hungarian-Romanian war were often made by oponents  of NATO
enlargement to forestall Hungary's admission durring the first half of
this decade.  Let's not open this stupid issue and give them more fuel
for their anti-enlargement campaign.  After all, it is both Hungary
and Romania that would lose.

>These are only a small number of the facts.

Mostly misrepresentation of facts.

>Rumania must prove in the first place that her eyes are SINCERELY and ARDENTLY
 pointed  toward the west,

The fact that Romanians -- including ethnic Hungarians -- lay down
their lives to overthrow the Ceaucescu tyrany doesn't count?  The fact
that Romanians -- including ethnic Hungarians -- staged massive
anti-communist demostrations in Bucharest that were brutally supressed
by the Iliescu tyrany, and still had the courage to throw him out of
office a few years later, doesn't count?  The fact that the new
democratic government -- a government that is strongly supported by
the Hungarian minority -- is implementing economic and political
reform doesn't count?  Then, pray tell, what do you consider enough?
Will you hold Hungary to the same standards?

>Only afterward USA could consider to invite Rumania to join NATO.

The United States, not sharing your anti-Romanian bigotry, is
considering it right now, as it should be.

Alexander

I have edited my return address in order to avoid the
gross excess in junk e-mail infesting the net. 
To e-mail me, just remove the word spamfree
from my address.

George Kovacs > wrote 
> Jo, jo, de akkor mi lesz a szoke sved bombazokkal? Parlagon maradnak?  
;-)

Mint oreg legeny, es boldog hazas, nekem ez a tema csak elmeleti.  Aki a
Duna partjan setalt magyar lannyal az tudja, hogy a magyar lanyoknal a
vilagon nincs szebb es csodassabb.  Aki nem, azt sajnalom, mert nem tudja,
hogy mit veszitett.

Annak idejen csak almodozni tudtunk mas orszagokrol.  Az eggyik edzonk
tobbszoros magyar es europai bajnok volt.  Rengeteget utazott kulfoldon. 
Kerdeztuk tole, hogy melyik varos a legszebb a vilagon.  Azt mondta, nem
mondja akkor nevetni fogunk.  Mondtuk, hogy megis mondja meg.  Vegre
kibokte, hogy Budapest a vilag legszebb varosa.  Milyen igaza volt az
oregnek!

Istvan

Chicago kornyeken ulti partnereket keresek, rendszeres jatekra.

Ha valakit erdekel legyen szives kuldjon e-mailt az  cimre.

Arpad Baricz

MEgorov writes:
>From:  (RT765)
>Subject: MONGOLS
>Date: 2 Mar 1997 09:49:29 GMT

>REMINDER
>ARE HUNGARIANS MONGOLS? (Short Version)

No.

In article >, "Istvan
Lippai" > wrote:

> Gabor Barsai > wrote 
> > Fogalmam sincs, gondoltam a Horvath Laszlorol beszeltel. Ha nem, akkor
> kirol?
> 
> Arrol beszeltem, hogy a latin-amerikai noket hivtuk a bulikra.  Nokrol
> beszelunk, nem ferfiakrol.

Akkor teljesen elvesztettel. 

Irtad:

"Gondolod, hogy azert olyan savanyu a tudod-ki-a-tudod-melyik-listan, mert
nem hivtak bulira?"

Fogalmam sincs, kirol beszelsz, melyik listan. A scm-on olvastam, hogy a
Laszlot meg a Gusztavot szapulod. Mas temarol nem tudok.

Gabor

On Thu, 27 Feb 1997 16:05:19 -0500, Gabor Barsai 
.edu> wrote:
>
>Miutan Sztalin megdoglott, egy kis oreg az angyalfoldi butor gyarban a
>vallara tett egy seprut.  Kerdeztek tole, hogy 'mit csinal Jani bacsi'. 
>Azt felelte, hogy 'disz orseget allok Sztalin elvtarsnak'.  A kis oreg
>masnap mar nem jott dolgozni.  Eltunt mint sok ezer(?), tizezer(?),
>szazezer(?) magyar, akit elvittek joforman semmiert.  Talan az meg
>borzasztobb volt, hogy a lanya, aki ugyanott dolgozott, nem mert meg
>panaszkodni se amiert eltunt az apja.  Mikor fogjuk megtudni, hogy hany
>magyar aldozata volt a kommunista uralomnak?) 

Jol latok?  A Barsait az ilyen "me'ly" temak is erdeklik, nem csak a
nok?  What is this world coming to?!

Joe Pannon
----------
REMINDER: Please correct my e-mail address in any personal reply by
removing the "antiSPAM." part from it.  I have altered the address
in the hope of defeating address grabbing SPAM software.  Thanks, JP

On 2 Mar 1997 21:49:28 GMT, Istvan Lippai > wrote
:
>
>Veletlenul az eggyik levelem a szlovak listara ment.  Akkor kaptunk egy a
>fajgyulolo levelet ettol az urgetol.  Valaszoltam a szlovak listan es meg
>is neztem a listat (AT&T-n ez nagyon konnyu).  Szerintem legtobb szlovak
>olyan mint mi es csak vitatkoznak, beszelgetnek egymas kozott.  Nem is
>foglalkozok veluk.

Ja, lattam ott a valaszodat.  Viszont sajnos nem igaz, hogy azon a
listan a legtobb szlovak olyan mint mi; en inkabb azokat latom ott
kivetelnek.  Van ott tobb Igorhoz hasonlo alak, de mivel az o angol
tudasa a legjobb, ezert o sokkal hatekonyabb a magyargyulolet
terjeszteseben. Figyelve a szlovak es roman listakat, azt kell
leszurnom, hogy az utobbiak sokkal normalisabbak, mivel azok kozt
valoban kisebbsegben vannak a vad magyargyulolok.

>Ez az Igor nem tipikus szlovak (legalabbis remelem mert akkor elobb utobb
>haboru lenne).  Kimondott szemet. 

Az hat!  S ez sajnos eleg tipikus a kulfoldon elo szlovak ertelmisegre.
Azok szitjak a legjobban a magyargyulolet parazsat.  Persze ennek nagy
hagyomanya van, hiszen Trianont is a kulfoldi csehek es szlovakok
keszitettek elo.  Egyebkent az atlagnep nem rossz, s nagyban hasonlit az
atlag magyarhoz.  Az ertelmiseguk viszont teljesen meg van vadulva a nagy
morva ideologiajuk altal.  Az egeszben csak az a rohej, hogy egyre
inkabb eloterbe kerulnek az olyan torteneszek, akik szerint a Nagy Morva
Birodalom nem is a mai Szlovakiaban volt, hanem valahol a mai Szerbiaban.
Nagy blamaban lesznek ezek a vadtotok, amint ez a nezet altalanosan
elfogadott lesz a torteneszek kozott.

> Ugyanezt tudom mondani errol a masik
>urgerol, aki most kuldott 8 (kettot nem lattam) uzenetet.  Nem erdemes
>vitatkozni vele.  Visszakuldtem az osszes uzenetet, semmi hozzaszolas
>nelkul.

Bar sok igazsag van abban, amit irt, de nem kell azt hinnunk, hogy azt
joindulatuan irta.  Epp ellenkezoleg!  A "mongol"es "nomad" jelzok nem
eppen pozitivak az europai kulturkorben.

Pannon J. 
----------
REMINDER: Please correct my e-mail address in any personal reply by
removing the "antiSPAM." part from it.  I have altered the address
in the hope of defeating address grabbing SPAM software.  Thanks, JP

 (Cristian Chelariu) writes:
>:
>Distribution: 
>
>Lena ) wrote:
>: And I do feel ashamed even though I love Russia, which I
>: consider my mother land, very much. I hope, I pray that sometime 
>: this chaos will end and Russia will become a civilized country. 
>: But right now I believe we have no moral right to tell other 
>: nations or countries what they should or should not do. I also 
>: don't think it's a good idea to call them names, to say that they 
>: are small, or insecure, or simply stupid. It is not the best way 
>: to become good neighbors. 
>: Yelena.
>
>I must admit there is long time since I've read such a well written 
>and well felt posting. 

I have the same feeling, and I also would like to thank Yelena 
for her good words.  I liked her posting so much that I am
reposting it below for those who haven't read it yet.  I think 
that most Russian people think and feel that way, and I wish 
more of them could speak up more often.


>I am sorry if in a moment of anger I called names on russians. 
>I have very good russian friends and I respect and admire
>russian culture. This posting shows that with wisdom and simplicity 
>we can forgive (not forget, but forgive) the mistakes of the past, 
>understand the present and put our hopes in the future. A truly 
>spiritually refreshing posting.
>God bless you, Yelena!

Actually, I do not understand why an average Russian has to 
be forgiven anything, if most of them were victims of the 
same opression which distroyed our lifes?  I think it is very
important not to generalize in an unfair way, and even more
important--to try hard and identify the real organizers and 
perpetrators of the communistic atrocities and their degree 
of involvement.  In my opinion, only this way we can talk 
about justice.  Otherwise, we are falling again in hands of 
their followers whose political agenda is clearly visible 
here on the Internet.  


Warm Regards,
grz (s.c.p.)

___
Grzegorz J. Ciach, 
PO Box 3053, Iowa City, IA 52244; tel:(319)337-4961


repost from soc.culture.polish:
> -------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: NATO: who can judge those countries that want to join?[...]
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 20:39:06 -0600


I am amazed at the level of this discussion.

Just stop for a minute and imagine that you live on one street
with a rapist, murderer and a robber. Would you feel safe even
if the guy was sort of quiet for a few years? Wouldn't you try
to protect yourself with whatever means you have? 

It is clear that Russia is not trusted or loved by her
neighbors. It is different on a personal level, though. I have
never faced hostility toward me. But I can easily imagine
dislike for Russians as a nation. It doesn't matter if the
particular rulers of Russia were ethnic Russians or not. No one
outside the country is going to make this distinction. 

And I don't see how relevant to the situation is the Vietnam
war, or killing of Native Americans few hundred years ago. If
our neighboring countries chose the US as their protector, it is
their right. They probably will feel safer. Especially
considering the situation Russia is in now. Political
instability, economical indeterminacy--a neighbor whose house
can blow up any minute!

I understand that political leaders of Russia must at least
demonstrate their disagreement with NATO expansion. It's
politics. But what about us, people? Why don't we be honest and
intelligent enough to accept the fact and to understand its
origins? Feeling at least somewhat ashamed would help too. And I
do feel ashamed even though I love Russia, which I consider my
mother land, very much. I hope, I pray that sometime this  chaos
will end and Russia will become a civilized country. But right
now I believe we have no moral right to tell other nations or
countries what they should or should not do. I also don't think
it's a good idea to call them names, to say that they are small,
or insecure, or simply stupid. It is not the best way to become
good neighbors. 

Sincerely,

Yelena.

> -------------------------------------------------------------