"Eva S. Balogh" > wrote:


>         In any case, here is how you subscribe. Write to

>         and

>        in the body of the letter write: subscribe hungary-report

>        Another source of English-language news is OMRI's news service from
>Prague. The Hungarian-related items from OMRI are picked up by subscribing
>to . Just follow the hix format of subcription by addressing
>your letter to 

>        Eva Balogh

For those who do read Hungarian the daily paper
http://www.nepszabadsag.hu/
is nicely laid out and easy to access
Another Eva

In article >, Joe Szalai
> writes:

>Well, at least you and Sam Stowe are convinced that I'm Pope.

Pope Joe the First? The one wearing the Shoes of the Fisherman with
sequins all over them? Oh, yeah! I know you! You're the pontiff with the
exquisite fashion sensibility!
Sam Stowe

"Amiguito, amiguito
soy yo de diablos juradores..."
-- Cervantes

Regarding the discussion on homosexual "identity," I offer Gore Vidal's
remark:

"'Homosexual' should never be used as a noun, only as an adjective."

Burian

I think Sam Stowe has confused my point.  I'm not talking about
"regulating" English--and I'm certainly aware of, and appreciative of, the
way American English has taken all kinds of colorful paths, aided by the
input of the different cultures who live here.

I'm talking about misusing words which already exist.  Certainly, add new
words as times change, and throw archaic words back to the academics.  But
don't take  vibrant words and destroy them.  To repeat the example I used
in my first message: the word "outrageous."  What can we do with that word
anymore?  Yet, it was once a wonderful word--strong and clear and very
specific.  If an Academy could have saved it in some way, not by laying
down laws, but purely by presence, the way one person might face a mob and
say, do what you wish, but I will stand here and say, it is wrong--I'd
consider such an Academy a national treasure.

Burian

P.S.--"Chill out" I can understand.  But "cool"?  Now there's a word I
hear a thousand times a day from people of all ages.  But what the hell
does it mean?  I finally looked it up in the dictionary: "A word used to
mask the absence of thought, the inability to think, and/or the
unwillingness of the speaker to put mental or emotional energy into
conveying a thought."

At 01:19 AM 8/15/96 GMT, Agnes  wrote:

>George, Jews were always the first one to defend general human rights.
>In the USA, when the civil right movement started, Jews were the first
>ones to go down south and fight for black rights.

I would like to add another example: Eli Wiesel, who was (is) a strong
spokesman for the rights of Bosnians (Moslems).

Gabor D. Farkas

Elo:szo"r, a mindenkinek ,Jo' reggelt!'

I liked the level-headed response of Zsargo Janos to my postings re: Church,
morals and homosexuality....  Now, I'd like to respond in hopefully the same
mature way...

Zsargo Janos wrote:

(1)
>As far as I know very few Roman Emperor died naturally, in most case they were
>'helped.'  This was the time when homosexuality was accepted or 'treated
>fairly' along with any other way to enjoy the life.  So everybody (or most
>people) cared only with his/her interest and life. And then came the end.  Of
>course I don't say the fall of the Roman Empire had only internal reasons but
>but they had major role in it.

At first, this sounds reasonable, BUT when the Roman Empire fell it was a
Christian empire. The empire with its Christian foundations and morals is what
fell.  I don't the Constantin (wasn't he the convert?) who converted to Christi
-
anity was a homosexual...

The Soviet Union also collapsed for a number of reasons, but homosexuality as a
reason was totally absent there!  Like I said before, the Puritans with all
 their
'knowledge' of god and morals barely survived a century!

Janos mentioned that societies in disorder fall.  Yes, but why is treating gay
people fairly a reason for disorder?  I feel that being fair to gays lets you
see an element of society (that's always there) and can improve it.  If you can
integrate people and make them feel good, isn't that an IMPROVEMENT in society?
It is like the Hungarians in Romania or Slovakia.  If you pretend they don't
exist or make them feel like cruddy 2nd class citizens, will that improve every
-
bodies situation?  No, I think that would cause disunity and disorder.

I feel sorry for gays becoming a scape-goat for other evils. If they are presen
t
in any situation, they receive some blame for whatever happened.  In America,
newspapers will report a "Homosexual Murder!!", but none of the thousands upon
thousands of other murders are labeled "Heterosexual murders!"  In Philadelphia
,
two days ago a guy shot his ex-girlfriend to death in a parking lot... but we'r
e
supposed to just understand that the poor boy was depressed and emotionally
disturbed.

(2)

I'm sorry, Janos, but I don't understand your last comment re: the Catholic
Church and the mentioning of rabbies.  Pls feel free to try this point one more
time.

What I meant by talking about unmarried priests who wear dresses....and then
dare tell people how to raise their families is to say that this is a beautiful
case of "Those who can- do, those who can't- teach!"

I fail to see how the Church wants to be Catholic if it excludes its gay
 members.
The Church is full of double-talk, because it seems like a good way to twists
topics but stay on its feet.  In Philadelphia, the Catholic leader said that
he is not against homosexuals is against discrimination..... but just don't
give gays the right to job protection, the right to marry, the protection to
buy a home where they want.....


BTW, yesterday I told someone to adress the issues directly and stop "hiding
behind Communist filth"   As a clarification, I simply meant that if a person
criticizes the Church, where not adress that question???  Why is that cause to
talk about the Communists??  Yes, I was not in a Gulag, but I can
understand the situation very well.  You do not have to be burned by fire to
 know
that it hurts!  The Church and the Communists both have their 'black and white'
doctines and they attack any dissentors.  The same results, although the method
s
are different.  The Church says its works for the good of our souls and the
Communists say they work for the good of our group.  So, yes, you can compare
 the
two.

Thank you for letting me vent another two cents worth.  I probably won't respon
d
to anything until next week (if necessary), because my first responsibility is
to my work at present.

- Mark

Eva Balogh quoted Andras Bencsik as an example of antisemitism:
"What would happen if at last we did something? With so much purity
and with so much determination as in October 1956, but with such peaceful
self-confidence as in March 1848.... What would happen if we banned the
SZDSZ, after which with healthy gusto we would clean them out from public
life, from the media, from the financial world, from below and from above
ground, from the delivery rooms, from the schools, from everywhere where
people live. The SZDSZ [Szabad Demokratak Szovetsege; Free Democratic
Alliance] is the citadel of neobolshevism, which is just as dangerous for
democratic societies as its spiritual precursor, neonazism."

This childish game "who is antisemite and who is not" has become the play
of nuances. Because of a little nuance I may prove that Eva Balogh herself
is an antisemite:

1. One who call the SZDSZ Jewish party is considered antisemite in Hun-
gary.

2. Eva unconsciously treats the SZDSZ as Jewish party. There is no way
otherwise to prove this text to be antisemite.

                           * * * * *

I would like to remind you, that the SZDSZ was heavily attacted by the
Right numerous times because several of their leaders are direct descen-
dants (sons) of ex-communist leaders. If you read the same quotation
with taking this into consideration then you may realize that it attacks
the party at its most sensitive point.

Interestingly, the self-defense of the party against this accusation
was always to call the attackers antisemite. This defense is tipical
to ex-communists who became liberals (does not matter if they are Je-
wish or not, I think in most case not).They seek shelter this way and
apparently it works.

Eva also quotes Debreczeni:
"I can hardly find words," he says. And after a two-paragraph analysis
of the text he says: "Someone who writes, says, thinks such things is
a scoundrel. After Auschwitz, before Auschwitz. Any time.":

Debreceni is a *self-declared* political dilettant who has no ground
to critisize or give advice to the party (MDF) which kicked him out
because he behaved as elephant in the China shop.

Tamas

At 11:31 PM 8/14/96 -0400, Sam Stowe wrote:

>In article >, Joe Szalai
> writes:
>
>>Well, at least you (Amos Danube) and Sam Stowe are convinced that I'm Pope.
>
>Pope Joe the First? The one wearing the Shoes of the Fisherman with
>sequins all over them? Oh, yeah! I know you! You're the pontiff with the
>exquisite fashion sensibility!

You got that right.  John Paul II (aka Mr. Karol Wojtyla) just doesn't look
good in drag, does he?  But me?  Well, let me tell you, bubba!  Actually,
the last time I was in church, the parish priest was doing his thing with
the incense burner during mass when someone leaned over to me and said, "his
drag is divine, but his purse is on fire."  Hmmm.

And Sam, if you're ever fortunate enough to be granted an audience with me I
will fully expect you to get on your knees and kiss the ring that used to be
on my finger.  It's now on another appendage (no, not my funny bone!) but
I'll explain later.

Joe Szalai

"It is an error to believe that the Roman Pontiff can and ought to reconcile
himself to, and agree with, progress, liberalism, and contemporay civilization.
"
       Pope Pius IX (1792-1878)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On Thu, 15 Aug 1996, Kocsis =?iso-8859-1?Q?Tam=E1s?= wrote:
[usual whitewashing of thinly veiled Jew-baiting by Bencsik et.al]
 This ignores the little nuance that they have rather consistently been
painting the liberals as agents of foreign/cosmopolitan/Jewish interest
(remember the "Tel Aviv - New York axis") - the one quote by Eva was a
mere milder-than-usual example of those tractates...
 It just so happens too that the myth of "direct descendants (sons) of
ex-communist leaders" and "ex-communists who became liberals" is being
exposed for what it is: a big lie, rather than anti-semitism (which is a
separate, albeit often co-applied part of the 'national-populist'
campaign).

 --
 Zoli , keeper of <http://www.hix.com/hungarian-faq/>;
*SELLERS BEWARE: I will never buy anything from companies associated
*with inappropriate online advertising (unsolicited commercial email,
*excessive multiposting etc), and discourage others from doing so too!


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Zoli Fekete wrote:
>[usual whitewashing of thinly veiled Jew-baiting by Bencsik et.al]

Thank you. You are very original.

> This ignores the little nuance that they have rather consistently been
>painting the liberals as agents of foreign/cosmopolitan/Jewish interest
>(remember the "Tel Aviv - New York axis") - the one quote by Eva was a
>mere milder-than-usual example of those tractates...

In this moment I am not interested in hearing who,when and where accused
others that way. The only thing I intended to show was that this text,
supplied by Eva Balogh, is not enough to prove her preconception.

> It just so happens too that the myth of "direct descendants (sons) of
>ex-communist leaders" and "ex-communists who became liberals" is being
>exposed for what it is: a big lie, rather than anti-semitism

I am happy that you basicly agree with my observations. The truth content
of the "sons and fathers" is another story, I am afraid.

Cordially,
Tamas

Mark Humpreys:

> 1) Yes, I do understand what it means to be persecuted by the Party.  Don't
>    give me that "lone sufferer" whine.
You did not get my point at all. Tens of millions died in this Century
because of the Communist terror. Tell me, please, how many people were
persecuted by the Church in this Century? And, please, do not try to
go back to and hide behind the ancient times. It too revealing.

>    I don't care about the Christian heaven, but obviously it's a BIG deal for
>    them...
That's right. But the 'Communist Heaven' was a simple survival here,
on the surface on THIS Earth, and it was denied for many by the
Communists. Get it?

> 2)Your response regarding people killed in China seems fairly inane.  Yes, I
>   will make comparisons where comparisons are fitting!
If you don't understand the difference between the two, then I can not
help you. Sorry... We are living in the 20th Century (a sad thing for
everyone).

>   I guess you don't know
>   how many people have been killed by religious morons!!??
Ahh, you know the numbers... Could you educate me, please?

>   Did you EVER hear of the Inquisi-
>   tion and the love of Christ that was displayed in Spain??
Come on, boy. The Spanish Inquisition was in the hand of the King, not
in the hand of the Church. I don't think this time-surfing game makes
sense, anyway.
>  Throughout history people who try to play god in science and religion have
>   not often come to very happy ends.
You are playing God. You said, you could invent better stories, than
the Bible has... Why don't you go ahead and make it?

> 3) Why do you say I am trying to put the force of the Jews on my agenda???
I don't know why do you do so. Maybe your agenda is simply far too weak
without enhancing.
>    Yes, some individuals in the Church helped save Jews...
And also some Churches, taking the risk of persecution by the atheist,
fascist morons.

> Zoltan, the more you speak, the more you seem to show the qualities of
> someone who is ignorant and religious.
Ohh, so the two go together, don't they? Just like homosexuality and
immorality. Very nice, Mark. Do not stop please, just continue this way.
>    (Anyway, the Old Testament is filled with interesting fables common
>    throughout
>    the tribes of its time and its always interesting to read about primitive
>    tribal practices.)
So the Old Testament and the primitive tribal practices...? I can't
believe you said this. You can be very desperate man, can't you?

I wish God helped you.                                      Sz. Zoli

I have lived in Santa Barbara California, where a friend of mine could
not get a job a teacher because she did not speak spanish!! Who provided
us with hungarian speaking teachers when we came to this country? And
there are many cases where children with hispanic sounding name are
FORCED into spanish classes, yet they - nor their parents - speak
spanish. It is about time that those busybody liberals be put into their
places and stop wasting my hard earned money that I don't want to give
them in the first place but they take it from me in the form of taxes.
Jozsi Hill

It is with great interrest I read this thread.There are many things I can
learn,from most of these Educated people.All graduates of this or that,and
than did thet not learn in all those years that personal attacks seldom
result in favorable conclusion.Well Guys live a little,go with the flow.
Another constant subject is "antisemitism".who is who is not,how can you
call them that prove it,that's not proof.
Well in my opinion as a Jew,I had enough of this.I wonder if an american or
canadian born person would read these,what would they think about Hungarians?
Don't they have abything else to discuss or are they that anty Jewish (not
antisemite)?And if they would be able to read the " Forum",well what
conclusion would they come to?Are realy the majority of Hungarians so anty
Jewish?Are they realy thinking about a Jewish conspiracy?What good would
that bring to the Jews?
A bancrupt country,another Jewish state?
Well I am ready to hear from you,and hear about your oppinion.
Andy.

Zoltan,

One final note regarding morals:  If the Church is so steadfast in its tradi-
tional beliefs and supports families.... why is divorce no longer an issue?
Why are divorces now granted so much more easily?  Shouldn't they now refuse
divorces in order to keep families together for better or *worse.*

I love hearing divorced people say they are against homosexual unions, because
they are pro-family!  Hu:lyese'g!

- Mark

Mark asks me:

> One final note regarding morals:  If the Church is so steadfast in its tradi-
> tional beliefs and supports families.... why is divorce no longer an issue?
> Why are divorces now granted so much more easily?
I don't know, what kind of church are you talking about. In the U.S.A.,
according to my best knowledge, there are more than 20 thousand churches.

If you ask me about the Catholic Church, I don't know about any support
for divorces among the ranks of the Catholic clergy. Divorces are not
granted, and you can not have another church wedding if you divorce by
civil law.

> Shouldn't they now refuse
> divorces in order to keep families together for better or *worse.*
That's a good point.
                                                               Sz. Zoli

Eva, it looks to me you changed your mind a little bit about
Heidegger, and danced back from your previous opinion. I wonder
why.

>         (1) My understanding is that there is more to Heidegger's nazi
> sympathies than his one-year-long tenure as president of the University of
> Freiburg. He was sympathetic to the Third Reich
What do you mean by 'sympathetic to the Third Reich'? You can be
sympathetic to somebody, but to a system of institutions? And
you also forgot that Heidegger was disgusted by the Nazis pushing
their agenda at his university already in 1934, so he resigned.

The existing Hungarian philosopher's establishment now was not only
'sympathetic' to the Communist Empire, they actually served the
goals of this imperialism, they actually took part in the system,
they builded up this system. Talking about this side could help
us to see the hsitory in a more symmetrical way.

(For example, all the disciples of George Lukacs were fascinated
by their patron, and his ideological quasy-philosophy and they
became very similar to him. Just think about the so-called 'Lukacs-
Kindergarten', as the group of his disciples are often called,
and its infamous personalities, like Agnes Heller, Ferenc Feher,
Istvan Eorsi, etc. They were never accused of 'sympathetism' to
something wrong. They are, actually, widely celebrated and are all
above judgement. Is it not asymmetry from its more visible kind?)

> and his whole philosophy is
> marked by a "strand of extreme nationalism."
Good Golly! Do you have any clue about philosophy? Nationalism is
a political-ideological term. It has nothing to do with philosophy,
especially with ontology. It would be self-contradictory. Have you
ever heard of 'nationalistic ontology'? No such a thing exist. If
it is ontology, then it can not be nationalistic. If it is
nationalistic, it can not be ontology, neither philosophy. Perhaps
political manifesto or ideological treatment. Now, Lukacs was
involved in these two latter very heavily, but Heidegger never!

And may I ask, who has this high level of authority for you, from
whom you uncritically accept this kind of 'marking'?

>         (2) According to my knowledge Lukacs was a political officer in the
> Hungarian Red Army for a few weeks but I haven't ever heard that he was
> executing his soldiers.
If you haven't heard it, that's your problem. Truly, he was a
political Comissar, and from the desk of his literature studies
he went on straight to show the soldiers how to fight. And it was
his show: executing his own soldiers! There are eye-witnesses and
it is also published in widely available documents.

> Only God knows what kind of mind he had but not the kind which would
> appeal to me.
This line of thinking about different kind of minds is very
interesting for me. Do you suggest that in the course of history
the different kind of minds/mindsets are responsible for the
different kind of events? And do you really think so, that some
kind of minds should be simply dismissed as 'not appealing'?

>         Zoli Szekely can be rest assured. Soon enough nobody is going to
> read Lukacs, while millions will read Heidegger.
I'm also convinced this would happen.

>         (4) My understanding of Mitterand's career that he was a rightwinger
> during the war and held high positions in the Vichy government. His career
> began on the right and ended on the left.
Actually, he ended up praising the German WWII Army (the Wehrmacht)
and it was a real shock for a couple left-wing entellectuels. Why?
Because now you have to refine/redefine your notion of Nazi, anti-
semitism, etc. As we start to feel the fresh winds of a new Century,
we may have the feeling: it's high time!
                                                           Sz. Zoli

> From  Thu Aug 15 15:27:38 1996
> Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 15:26:02 -0400
> From: Mail Delivery Subsystem >
> Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown (Name server: gwuvm.gwu.eduszkely: host
 not found)
> To: 
> Content-Length: 6178

 Szekely,      What a laugh!

 Are you serious??  (Sorry, people, I just have to comment on Sz. Zoltan's
 post!)

 1) Why can't you answer any of my questions? You can only try to throw back
    'smart' remarks.  Don't bother calling me 'boy,' when your view of history
   seems to only have started in 1900!  You rage against the Communists and
 their
   60 years of insanity, but you IGNORE the Church's decades of hypocrisy and
   cruelty in many areas!!!

   No, Szekely, priests were involved in the Inquisition!! ... along with moral
,
   Catholic kings acting in co-operation!

   Don't just look at the Church in this century... it's an ancient institution
!
   It claims to uphold beliefs and traditions that are hundreds of years old!!
   Therefore, it better be accountable for its actions of its time!

   O.K., then : How many people has the poor Communist Party persecuted since
   1989???!!!  According to you, we can then ignore their past!

 2) Don't try to make me have to defend Communism, because I am displaying the
    ignorance of the Church and many (of course not all) of its fanatic
 believers!

    Yes, we are living in the 20th century....why is that sad for you??? Would
    you rather us be in the 13th, 14th and 15th centuries where disagreements
 with
    the Church were taken care of by fire and/or a torture chamber?

    You haven't explained the origin of the word "faggot" for us, Szekely! Why?

    I wonder what Mr. Huss in Prague would say to your historical remarks.  But
    people killed because they questioned the Church don't matter, because they
    didn't live in the 20th century.  Well, that leaves the castrati!!  This
    practice which was supported by the Vatican lasted until the first decade o
f
    this century!

    Gee, it's funny how you think the Church wasn't even involved with the
 Inqui-
    sition!  With all the power of the Church in the Middle Ages.... why did it
    then just sit by and watch???  Who in the Church opposed it??? Huh??? Who
    opposed it?  Don't you know about the "sin of omission?"

 3) Why do you say time-surfing historical questions makes no sense??  The
 Church
    is the vicar of the Christ!  It's the Truth of the Ages!  Nem igaz??  If yo
u
    can say this, why bring up the Chinese Cultural Revolution... that movement
    formally ended a little more than two decades ago!

 You seem so blind to many ideas and facts that I am surprised you can even see
 your keyboard to type.  Or do you use brail?

 The Church has done good things, but it has also miserably failed in others.
 Why
 are you angered to hear anything negative about the Church?? Why does the worl
d
 seem either black or white to you? No, I refuse to give the Church any credit
 where  it has acted like an ignoramus.  I do, however, admire the Christian
 idea
 of community service and the Church's work with orphanages, schools and hospi-
 tals.  However, that does NOT give it a free ticket to claim things that it
 should not and rule over others.

 I love how in the 19th century the pope suddenly decided to say he's infallibl
e
 in matters of religion!  Ha!  Gee, we should all pick and chose what topics we
 are infallible in then make a decree! Or have you done that already?

 Szekely, in your knowledgeable Church, what ever happened to ST. CHRISTOPHER??
 Remember, in the 1970's the Church said, "Oops, there never was a St. Christo-
 pher!"  Ha!  Who really then answered all those prayers that he was supposed t
o
 have answered???  Gilgamesh?
 Zoli-Baby! There can be immoral homosexuals just as there are immoral hetero-
 sexuals... But good, constructive homosexuals exist just as well as good
 hetero ones.  Look at all the homosexual priests in the Catholic church.

 4) Zoltan, what the hell were the 12 *TRIBES of ISRAEL?*  Didn't they follow
 much>    of the Old Testament?   Yes, the Bible includes much about rituals an
d
 daily
    life routine of a pre-Christian peoples, the tribe of Juda!

   But you probably hate it when Catholicism is called a cult.  Yes?

    WELL, IF YOU DON'T LIKE 'TIME-SURFING' OR LOOKING AT HISTORY BEFORE THIS
    CENTURY-- WHAT VALUE TO YOU PLACE ON SOMETHING OLD LIKE THE BIBLE ?? !! ??

 5) No, your god does not have to help me. If this god has helped you and you
 are
    the result, then I 'pray' I will be left alone!  No, I also don't need the
   Church, I can think on my own, thank you.

   ** TO ANYONE: If the belief in god and the love of the Church has brought
      peace and knowledge to Zoltan's life, is it very evident?  Can you see it
?

 Doesn't anybody wonder why Pope John-Paul I died so soon and so suddenly?
 I wonder if this god did it to damn him or the Church for its sins?  How do
 those
 of you who interpret natural disasters.... interpret this untimely death??
 Did the Church maybe make a mistake in picking him as pope?  No, because the
 Church never makes mistakes.....just money.

 No! I am not claiming to be god.  (Don't put words in my mouth!)  I am claimin
g
 that the Church does not have clean hands and the all creatures on Earth
 (Homo or Hetero) have the right to be treated fairly!

 I pity your god, (If I had a god, it would have loved everything it created!..
.
 even you.)

 -Mark
       (O.K.  My lunch break's over.)

Mark,

you don't have any historical facts or numbers in your letter.
You don't stop your laughable time-surfing, as if toying with
history. Very regrettable.

Another thing: you have to go back 600 years in history in
order to prove your lifestyle!? Amazing. You want to feel your
so-called 'identity' (is there such a thing as 'homo-x
identity'??), so you point back to the persecution of Jews by
some Spanish kings 600 years ago. I just can not follow you.

Let me borrow a saying from my long time 'adversary-on-the-net',
Eva Balogh: this kind of mind is simply not appealing for me.

                                                     Sz. Zoli

P.S. You have to decide if you want to talk about your specific
agenda or about the numbers of the Inquisition.

Sz. Zoli wrote:about Lukacs
If you haven't heard it, that's your problem. Truly, he was a
political Comissar, and from the desk of his literature studies
he went on straight to show the soldiers how to fight. And it was
his show: executing his own soldiers! There are eye-witnesses and
it is also published in widely available documents.

Please name the eyewitnesses and the sources. If my recollection serves my
right you were already invited to give references. To complete the picture
one should mention the activities of G. Lukacs after 1956 when he tried
the save the life of many revolutionaries.

Peter I. Hidas, Montreal

Peter Hidas:
> Please name the eyewitnesses and the sources. If my recollection serves my
> right you were already invited to give references.
You can find the sources easily if you are really interested.
(Just take your time and go to your nearest library, please.)

> To complete the picture
> one should mention the activities of G. Lukacs after 1956 when he tried
> the save the life of many revolutionaries.
And also, he joined the Communist Party of Kadar, the murderer
of Imre Nagy Prime Minister of the Revolution, in 1967 just
one year before he died. He just could not make it without this.
Too bad. Now, you can not argue that in the end he was not a
Communist...  :-(
                                                     Sz. Zoli

Sz. Zoli wrote:
And also, he joined the Communist Party of Kadar, the murderer
of Imre Nagy Prime Minister of the Revolution, in 1967 just
one year before he died. He just could not make it without this.
Too bad. Now, you can not argue that in the end he was not a
Communist...  :-

I do not know where you get your info about Lukacs but they are not correct.
Lukacs, for example, celebrated his 85. birthday in 1970 - in good health.
He died on June 5, 1971. You can read his essays in English and many other
languages. His works are studied at every western university. In 1919 he
was minster of education and in 1956 he was a member of Nagy's cabinet.
During the Revolution he became founding member of the renewed communist
party, a euro-communist or national communist party, the MszMP.He was not
active in politics after 1956 but rejoined the party in 1967 from which he
was expelled in 1957. Yes, he was a communist, but one could say despite of
that he was a great philosopher and literary essayist all his life.

Peter I. Hidas, Montreal

Hidas Peter:
> I do not know where you get your info about Lukacs but they are not correct.
O.K. he died in 71. So what? Did he joined Kadar's Communist
Party or not? Certainly he did! He always knew how to make
deals with the oppressor.

> His works are studied at every western university.
Oh, really...? Don't tell me. ;-)
That's my point exactly. You see, how deep are the roots of
the asymmetrical world-view. After all, Lukacs was a narrow-
minded Communist, but his comrades still celebrate him all
over the world!

> During the Revolution he became founding member of the renewed communist
> party, a euro-communist or national communist party, the MszMP.
Come on, Peter, give me a break. The MSzMP, as 'EURO-COMMUNIST'
Party? Where did you get this strange idea? I see, you can not
be bothered by history, anyway. ;-(

(Euro-communism was invented sometime in the seventies by
Western European communists, who were trying to break with
the Russian type Soviet Communism. Actually, Kadar and his
MSzMP were puppets of the Soviet, as Kadar gain his power
by the Soviet tanks.)
                                                  Sz. Zoli

At 07:11 AM 8/15/96 -0700, Jozsi Hill wrote:

>I have lived in Santa Barbara California, where a friend of mine could
>not get a job a teacher because she did not speak spanish!!

Was the ability to speak Spanish, part of the job description?  If it was a
requirement, then certainly, it should have been in the job description.
Your friend wasn't tricked into applying for the job, was she?

>Who provided us with hungarian speaking teachers when we came to this
>country?

Why?  Was anybody supposed to?  Did someone promise that?  I don't know what
happened to Hungarians who went to the States, but in Canada the only place
I learned Hungarian was in the church basement on Saturday mornings.  And I
hated it. I hated giving up my Saturday mornings.  I wanted to play instead.

> And there are many cases where children with hispanic sounding name are
>FORCED into spanish classes, yet they - nor their parents - speak
>spanish.

I don't know about the situation in California, but here in Ontario, it's
the parents who decide what, and where, the children study.  I guess you
could call that FORCE because the child may have other ideas.  You know,
like me and Saturday morning school.  I wanted to play but my parents
'forced' me to go to Magyar Iskola.  I didn't like it then, but I don't
regret it today.  Not at all!

>It is about time that those busybody liberals be put into their
>places and stop wasting my hard earned money that I don't want to give
>them in the first place but they take it from me in the form of taxes.

So, you're just another irate taxpayer who doesn't like to contribute
towards the education of the young.  Why?

Joe Szalai

P.S. Celebrate language!

At 09:29 PM 8/15/96 -0400, Zoltan Szekely wrote:

>Hidas Peter:

>> His works are studied at every western university.

>Oh, really...? Don't tell me. ;-)
>That's my point exactly. You see, how deep are the roots of
>the asymmetrical world-view. After all, Lukacs was a narrow-
>minded Communist, but his comrades still celebrate him all
>over the world!

I don't wish to spoil your fun Zoltan, but I studied Lukas, and even one of
his students, Istvan Meszaros(is that how his name is spelled?), at the
University of Waterloo back in 1974.  Was my political science prof part of
an asymmetrical world-view conspiricy to push the Budapest school even into
such provincial and bucolic places as UW?  Seems highly implausible.

Joe Szalai

Joe:
> Was my political science prof part of
> an asymmetrical world-view conspiricy to push the Budapest school even into
> such provincial and bucolic places as UW?  Seems highly implausible.
Nothing about conspiracy. You look infected with conspiracy
theories. (No big deal, anyway. The (continental) American
mindset likes conspiracy theories, like fresh cucumber after
rain.) Asymmetrical thinking is an attitude. Period.

                                                   Sz. Zoli