I do not think this is appropriate in soc.culture.new-zealand.

achiever ) wrote:
: We have wide selection of meat available for immediate delivery
: together with birds of all ages and Ostrich eggs.

: Birds and eggs are also available for import and export into
: all countries of the world including
: UK  USA  New Zealand  Australia  Africa  Canada  Asia.

I wonder what the Ministry of Agriculture and Fisheries
have to say about you.  I think you should go do research 
a little bit more or you may be in for a shock.

lin

George Szaszvari ) wrote:

: Excuse me butting in, but, yes, Hungarian beer is on the whole a bit
: disappointing (by German standards, though perhaps not by most other
: standards.) 

I disagree.   While there were lousy, cheap bears (ie: Ko:ba'nyai 
Vila'gos and the like)  there were many very good beers.  My favored 
beers were the Jubileum (it won 3 golds, btw) and a porter type dark 
beer whose name I no longer remember.     

: I would appreciate any leads on which Magyar beers might be 
: worth looking out for when I revisit Hungary next year.

Please let us know the source of your information concerning the murder of 50,0
00 Hungarians.
Peter I. Hidas, Montreal

Peter, I remember reading about this atrocity in the magazine "Forum" when
I was in Hungary in 1990-91.  It was in one the fall 1990 or spring 1991
issues.  The number quoted was 40,000 if I remember correctly.

I specifically remember reading that many were tied to railroad tracks
and that locomotives were run over the bodies of living people.

At the time, I didn't want to believe the article.  I am more willing
to believe it now.

Tom Angi, Dayton

In article >, achiever > wrote:
>The cultural meat of the 1990's is now available.
>
>Ostrich meat is a red meat. It has less fat than turkey
>or chicken and it is very low in both cholesterol and calories.


Can I get some spotted owl meat?  Or perhaps some whale meat?

I've heard that spotted owl tastes like chicken.

I want to try it for myself.

		Halal the Horrible

In article >,  (
Janos Szamosfalvi) says:
>
>George Szaszvari ) wrote:
>
>: Excuse me butting in, but, yes, Hungarian beer is on the whole a bit
>: disappointing (by German standards, though perhaps not by most other
>: standards.)...[snip]..
>
>I disagree.   While there were lousy, cheap bears (ie: Ko:ba'nyai 
>Vila'gos and the like)  there were many very good beers.  My favored 
>beers were the Jubileum (it won 3 golds, btw) and a porter type dark 
>beer whose name I no longer remember.     
>

Hello!

You disagree? With what? That Hungarian beer is not quite on level with the
German brewing tradition? 

You must be one of those cantankerous Hungarians that I've heard so much 
about!! You will have to be my guest in a beer tasting trip to Germany one 
of these days: your *education* obviously has some serious gaps!!

Anyway, thank you very much indeed for the lead, although I'm sure that I've
aleady had some Jubileum, but I'll be checking it out again!

See ya!

George Szaszvari

George Szaszvari ) wrote:
: In article >, 
 (Janos Szamosfalvi) says:
: >
: >George Szaszvari ) wrote:
: >
: >: Excuse me butting in, but, yes, Hungarian beer is on the whole a bit
: >: disappointing (by German standards, though perhaps not by most other
: >: standards.)...[snip]..
: >
: >I disagree.   While there were lousy, cheap bears (ie: Ko:ba'nyai 
: >Vila'gos and the like)  there were many very good beers.  My favored 
: >beers were the Jubileum (it won 3 golds, btw) and a porter type dark 
: >beer whose name I no longer remember.     
: >

: Hello!

: You disagree? With what? 

"Hungarian beer is on the whole a bit disappointing."

When I was in Hungary (until 84) about 80 - 90% of the beer sold 
in ABC's were <some> Vila'gos.  I guess because it was 7.50 vs. 12 - 18 Ft 
for better beers such as Pilsner, Jubileum, Tuborg, etc.   

: That Hungarian beer is not quite on level with the German brewing 
: tradition? 

Tradition and taste are 2 different things, and one not necessarily 
imply the another.

: You must be one of those cantankerous Hungarians that I've heard so 
: much about!! 

: You will have to be my guest in a beer tasting trip to Germany one 
: of these days: your *education* obviously has some serious gaps!!

I have spent over 2 years in Austria, Switzerland, and Germany, and 
one thing we never forgot while hitchiking with my best friend was
tasting the local specialties.   And there were a big variation amongst
them.   

: Anyway, thank you very much indeed for the lead, although I'm sure that 
: I've aleady had some Jubileum, but I'll be checking it out again!

Some people don't like it because of its bitter taste.

I'M TRYING TO GET INFORMATION IN REGARDS TO OBTAINING HUNGARIAN
PUBLICATIONS (NEWSPAPERS/MAGAZINES) WRITTEN IN HUNGARIAN AVAILABLE
OVER THE INTERNET OR EMAIL.  PLEAST POST AN ARTICLE OR EMAIL ME AT

Radovan Cerny ) wrote:
: 
: I have got some more informations:
: - The daily allowance is in fact required by almost all Western Europe 
: countries. But it is DAILY ALLOWANCE, which is in the range 10 $ per day. So 
: you can allways say that you are coming for one day. And it is never required
 
: in practise. But the laws exist.

Thee requirement in Switzerland (in 1989) was SFr100 per person per day
in addition to a valid ticket out of the country. That is substantially
more than $10, much closer to $100.

Of course, the regulation was enforced rather selectively.

d.A.

Erdeklodom a nagykozonsegtol,hogy miert tunnek el a frissen(kb.3-4 napos) 
irt uzenetek.Talan csak en eszlelem vagy masnak is feltunt?Ha valakinek 
van valami otlete,kerem tudassa velem ezen a hullamhosszon!!!
Istvan
Ui.:Kulonosen bosszant,hogy a valaki altal irt labdarugo eredmenyek 
tuntek el,mielott megjegyezhettem volna oket!
Kerem segitsenek!!!
Minden jot
Istvan,Lisa es augusztus 10-en szuletett fiam Aron neveben

Elnezest kerek a nagyerdemutol,hogy a bajaimmal izgattam Onoket!Ugy nez 
ki,hogy minden rendben, igy egymas utan irt harom uzenetem,egy kicsit 
ostoban nez ki.Pardon,pardon holgyeim es uraim!!
Oroszvariek
Ui.:Oroszvari Aron udvozol minden magyar honfitarsat!(Ugyan meg csak 11 
napos,de majd belejon!)

*** Greetings from the Hungarian-American List ***
      ***      http://mineral.umd.edu/hungary/       ***
      ***       mailto:          ***


NATO "WHY AND HOW" STUDY VAGUE ON DETAILS. The year-long study on the
why and how of NATO expansion will be vague on details, Der Spiegel
reported on 20 August. Potential applicants will be briefed on the draft
plan this fall and it will be formally endorsed at NATO ministerial
meetings in December. The study will contain no timetable nor precise
criteria for membership. Der Spiegel quoted one German diplomat as
saying, "No one should be able to say, `We fulfill all the criteria so
now you have to take us in.'" The weekly reports that NATO has
informally agreed to admit East European countries in stages, with the
Czech Republic, Poland and Hungary forming the first group and Romania,
Slovakia, Bulgaria and Slovenia the second. New members will not be
required to base foreign troops or nuclear weapons on their territories.
-- Michael Mihalka, OMRI, Inc.

FIRST PFP EXERCISES BEGIN IN U.S. The sixth major NATO Partnership for
Peace exercise began at Fort Polk, Louisiana, on 18 August,
international agencies reported. Soldiers from 3 NATO and 14 former
Warsaw Pact countries were represented in the first such exercise to be
held in the U.S., which simulates peacekeeping operations on a island.
Participating countries include the United States, Britain, Canada,
Albania, Bulgaria, the Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Kyrgyzstan,
Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Ukraine and
Uzbekistan. The exercise ends on 26 August. -- Michael Mihalka, OMRI,
Inc.

BELARUSIAN KGB ACCUSES TRADE UNIONS OVER STRIKES. Following several days
of strikes by metro and trolley drivers in Minsk, the Belarusian KGB
accused strike organizers of taking money and orders from the West, Ekho
Moskvy reported on 19 August. A representative of the KGB stated that
the independent trade unions which organized the strikes prepared for
the action by attending conferences abroad which were paid for by
foreign sources. The KGB official also said that the American Congress
of Trade Unions was ready to aid the Belarusian unions. The acceptance
of any foreign aid would make the Belarusian trade unions paid agents of
foreign powers, he added. Ekho Moskvy concluded that a campaign against
independent trade unions is being mounted in Belarus. -- Ustina Markus,
OMRI, Inc.

CEFTA MEETING ENDS IN WARSAW. Trade ministers from the Czech Republic,
Hungary, Poland, and Slovakia, countries belonging to the Central
European Free Trade Agreement (CEFTA), ended a two-day meeting in Warsaw
on 18 August and agreed to lift tariffs on many industrial products as
of 1 January 1996. Slovenia's trade minister was also present. The next
meeting is scheduled in Brno, the Czech Republic, in September, where
CEFTA is to admit Slovenia as a full member, Polish and international
media reported on 19 August. -- Jakub Karpinski, OMRI, Inc.

HUNGARY TURNS OFF BOSNIAN PIPELINE. Hungarian radio announced on 19
August that, at the request of the United Nations, Hungary has shut a
natural gas pipeline leading to Sarajevo. The UN asked Hungary on 15
August to turn off the pipeline after Bosnian government complaints that
it had not received any gas through it since May. Bosnian Serbs, who
hold the territory through which the pipeline passes, are believed to
have diverted the gas to their own use. In another development, five
busloads of refugees, mostly Muslims from eastern Bosnia, arrived in
Hungary on 18 August saying they had been expelled by Bosnian Serbs,
international media report. According to Hungarian border guards, the
261 refugees were the biggest single group to arrive from former
Yugoslavia this year. A border guard spokesman told journalists that "as
further humiliation, the Serbs forced the refugees to pay considerable
sums for their trip, as if they (the Serbs) were some sort of travel
agency." The refugees were granted temporary asylum and sent to camps in
Nagyatag and Bekescsaba. -- Jiri Pehe, OMRI, Inc.

U.S. OFFICIALS DIE IN BOSNIAN ROAD ACCIDENT. International media
reported on 20 August that four British soldiers were killed when their
Lynx helicopter fell into the Adriatic. The previous day three members
of a five-man U.S. interagency team died when their armored personnel
carrier fell down a steep tree-lined ravine on Mt. Igman and its gas
tank exploded. The fatalities included Robert Frasure, who was
Washington's chief "ideas man" on the former Yugoslavia. President Bill
Clinton said that the U.S. would continue its diplomatic efforts in the
region. Bosnian Serb leader Radovan Karadzic sent his condolences,
adding that the diplomats should have been talking to the Serbs instead
of going to Sarajevo. U.S. Senate Majority Leader Robert Dole said that
the Serbs were indirectly responsible for the deaths, since they barred
the main access roads to the diplomats, VOA reported. -- Patrick Moore,
OMRI, Inc.

RUSSIA PRESSES FOR INTERNATIONAL MEETING ON YUGOSLAVIA. Russia hopes to
organize a conference of all the warring parties in the Yugoslav
conflict this October, a high-ranking Russian diplomat told Interfax on
19 August. The conference, which would also include representatives of
the international Contact Group, could use the most recent U.S. peace
proposals as a starting point, according to the diplomat. He added that
Moscow could be the site of the conference and, if it were successful,
international sanctions against rump Yugoslavia could be lifted. On 18
August, an anonymous source at the Russian Ministry of Foreign Trade
told AFP that Russia would soon sign several economic cooperation
agreements with rump Yugoslavia, although it is unclear if their terms
would violate the UN sanctions. Other sources said the agreements
concern oil and a joint gas pipeline construction project. Earlier
cooperation agreements signed by Moscow and Belgrade will not enter into
force until sanctions are lifted. -- Scott Parrish, OMRI, Inc.

CONSTRUCTION TO BEGIN ON IRANIAN REACTOR IN NOVEMBER. Speaking after
arriving in Tehran, Deputy Minister of Nuclear Energy Yevgenii
Reshetnikov told ITAR-TASS on 18 August that construction on the
controversial nuclear power complex in Bushehr would begin in November
or December. Rejecting criticism of the deal, Reshetnikov said "there is
no question of submitting to American pressure" to cancel the contract,
signed in January, to build the plant. Reshetnikov leads a delegation of
Russian specialists who will discuss the financing of the reported $1
billion contract with Iranian officials. -- Scott Parrish, OMRI, Inc.

McDONALD'S OPENS FIFTH RESTAURANT IN MOSCOW. The U.S. fast-food chain
McDonald's opened its fifth restaurant in Moscow on 18 August, five
years after opening its first in Russia, ITAR-TASS reported the same
day. The company announced that the first four restaurants in Moscow,
which employ 2,650 people, have served a total of 103 million meals. The
first restaurant, opened on Pushkin Square on 31 January 1990, has
served 81 million customers. The new restaurant is located on Prospekt
Mira. The chain plans to open its first restaurant in St. Petersburg in
the near future. -- Thomas Sigel, OMRI, Inc.
  
[As of 12:00 CET]
[As of 1200 CET]
Compiled by Steve Kettle
Compiled by Victor Gomez

       This material was reprinted with permission of the 
Open Media Research Institute, a nonprofit organization with research
   offices in Prague, Czech Republic. (http://www.omri.cz/)
       For more information on OMRI publications, 
             please write to:  

     Copyright (C) 1995 Open Media Research Institute, Inc.
             All rights reserved. ISSN 1211-1570

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Are you advertising my meat? I better not catch you.
I'm the only ostrich on net and beware mr human!

Do you believe mexicans eat ostrich-fajita?
That mongolian make sezchuan ostrich?
That new-zelanders have ostrich kangaroos?
That nigerians make ostrich fofoo?

By the way, did you conduct a survey that lead to the selection of these 
USENET groups? 

What is a cultural meat? Would we have any more ostriches in the next 
90s?


REPLY

The title says it all. Today, the 20th of August is one of 
Hungary's national holidays, remembering King Stephen the Saint
from the Arpad dynasty, Hungary's first crowned Christian king.

--
mailto:
http://mineral.umd.edu/~gotthard/

In article > George Szaszvari,
 writes:
>Excuse me butting in, but, yes, Hungarian beer is on the whole a bit
>disappointing (by German standards,

German beers made me drink Hungarian wine on MALEV-flights.
Last year I always could get Pilsner Urquell, now there are Ger-
man beers only so instead of beer I  drink Szekszardi Cabernet.

It is a shame that there is no Kőbambi available on MALEV-
flights. Should I order special meal perhaps ? We would deser-
ve to have a menu with Kőbambi if there is veggi and kosher
stuff served there.

SSSScheissse.. ..4.49 a.m and I am still working !!!

Tamas

In article >,
Chris. Gauvrit > wrote:

>(1) From a novel (I'm 15 and I don't want to die, Christine Arnothy) I had
>understood that before 1945 there was a bridge between the Lanc hid and
>the Margit hid. Is it true or did I misread ?

You must be talking about the Kossuth bridge, but it was not before, but
AFTER '45 and to my knowledge standing well into the '60s.

It was a floating (pontoon) bridge in front of the Parliament and toward
the end of its brief life the Kossuth bridge was for pedestrian traffic
only.

Joe Pannon

In article >,
Tom Angi > wrote:
>
>Peter, I remember reading about this atrocity in the magazine "Forum" when
>I was in Hungary in 1990-91.  It was in one the fall 1990 or spring 1991
>issues.  The number quoted was 40,000 if I remember correctly.
>
>I specifically remember reading that many were tied to railroad tracks
>and that locomotives were run over the bodies of living people.
>
>At the time, I didn't want to believe the article.  I am more willing
>to believe it now.

I don't know if we ever will find out the exact figure because
researching the subject on the scene itself is very dangerous.  For that
reason, many of the old folks who may have witnessed the events are
afraid to testify.  During the communist era, it was just as much a tabu
subject as the Katyn forest massacre.

Discussion of the subject in Hungary started only since the fall of
communism, including at least one TV documentary that I know of.  I
don't know though the number of estimated victims mentioned in that
documentary.

I started reading about the subject in Hungarian emigre papers during
the '80s and some of the articles went as far as 100 thousand in their
estimates.  Personally, I found the one most credible that was based on
the secret research of a Hungarian priest in Voivodina which placed the
estimate around 60 thousand.  So I was trying to be conservative by
roundig it down to 50 K.

The method of killings by Tito's returning partisans is as gruesome as
you mentioned, including sawing live people is sawing mills.  But the
typical method was just as the one recently reported by CIA from
Srebrenica: gather all males of certain age under some pretense so as
not to scare them off and not to alert the people left at home, then
take them to some fields to dig some large ditches.  Then just
machine-gun them into the ditches.  To kill large number of people, this
is more efficient than run them over by a train or sawing them in half.

Serbs made themselves a name in the "brutality department" already in WW
I, when the irregulars, called Komitatchiks, would brutally carve up
ambushed patrols, cutting off their genitals and stuffing it into their
mouth.  Somehow, simple killing of the enemy is not enough for Serbs:
they have to make the death as agonizing for their victims as possible.

Joe Pannon

In article >,  (
Chris. Gauvrit) writes:
|>Last month I went to Budapest for professional reasons and I spent there 5
|>fantastic days !
|>
|>(2) I was surprised to find only german beer in bars. Beside the great
|>wine tradition, is there no beer tradition in Hungary ?
|>
|>-- 
|>Christian GAUVRIT
|>Dijon, France
|>

Probably you also thought Dreher to be a German or Austrian beer, but it is
Hungarian. Anyhow the Hungarian "tradition" is of Austrian origin, Dreher
was an Austrian immigrant (or German). 

Personally I prefer Danish beers (Tuborg, Carlsberg) than German ones, but
at home I usually drink Dreher if it fresh. It can be mishandled, but this
problem also occurs with German and Austrian beers in Hungary. I usually
drink Dreher in a local Dreher pub in Dunakeszi, the bottled one usually
worse eben there.

The next comment is not for you : guys, this is a commercial and not a
political problem. Take it easy.

Pal Hidas

Kedves Focirajongo Barataim!

Tudja-e valaki a hetvegi eredmenyeket az NBI-ben es esetleg mit jatszott 
a Nyiregyhaza az NBII-ben?Nagyon megkernem azt a vallalkozo kedvu 
ismeretlent,hogy kuldje el cimemre:  is 
megkoszonnem!
Oroszvari Istvan
UI.:Mit tippelnek a kupafordulora?(Fradi,UTE,Vac)Halljam a velemenyueket!

) writes:
> You must be talking about the Kossuth bridge, but it was not before, but
> AFTER '45 and to my knowledge standing well into the '60s.
> 
> It was a floating (pontoon) bridge in front of the Parliament and toward
> the end of its brief life the Kossuth bridge was for pedestrian traffic
> only.

  I have crossed that bridge many times between 1946 and 1956 and I am
quite sure that it was *not* built on pontoons. It rested on solid pillars
built into the river-bottom. (There was an earlier floating bridge
immediately after the fighting, but that was in service only until Kossuth
bridge was built.)

    R.L.

On 21 Aug 1995  wrote:

> Serbs made themselves a name in the "brutality department" already in WW
> I, when the irregulars, called Komitatchiks, would brutally carve up
> ambushed patrols, cutting off their genitals and stuffing it into their
> mouth.  Somehow, simple killing of the enemy is not enough for Serbs:
> they have to make the death as agonizing for their victims as possible.

Joe,
brutality is human, unfortunately, and one cannot attribute it only to 
the Serbs. Especially this century's wars were full with them.
Nazi Germany's torture of millions to death, Japan in Korea, Mao, Stalin.
Our local paper - Washington Post - has a report about 
brutality in wars almost every day. Mass graves of Bosnian Muslims killed 
and tortured by Serbs. Mass graves of Serbs killed and tortured by Croats.
And the latest, that shocked Israel and the Jewish community - mass 
graves of thousands of Egyptian and other Arab POWs killed and tortured nazi 
style. The Hungarian minority is hardly ever mentioned in the news in 
connection with Vajdasag ( Vojvodina ). If you want to express your 
concerns, because I guess soc.culture.magyar just won't make it, here is 
Gyula's email-address:

Horn Gyula, prime minister of Hungary :  

Also, you can find the email address of your (U.S.) senator at :

http://www.yahoo.com/Government/Legislative_Branch/Congressional_E_Mail_Address
es/ 

(U.S.) House of Representative member at:
http://www.house.gov/Whoswho.html

Take care,
Gotthard
--
mailto:
http://mineral.umd.edu/~gotthard/

In article >,  (
Janos Szamosfalvi) says:
>
>Tradition and taste are 2 different things, and one not necessarily 
>imply the another.

I beg to differ...as would most other beer connoisseurs (IMHO). The German
*tradition* defines good taste, that is why these expressions are more or
less interchangeable.
>
>I have spent over 2 years in Austria, Switzerland, and Germany, and 
>one thing we never forgot while hitchiking with my best friend was
>tasting the local specialties.   And there were a big variation amongst
>them.   

I got a job in Germany in 1976, subsequently moved to Belgium, went to 
and fro between NW Europe and Britain for several years before visiting my
relations in Hungary and Transylvania for a while and moving onto Greece
for a year. In 1981-2 I ran my own pub business in Belgium (nothing serious,
just for fun) and can tell you that if you want variety and diversity in 
beer, Belgium is the place! I'm 45 years old and beer has been quite a 
*hobby* of mine (if not a career!) ever since I tasted my first legal pint 
back in the swinging sixties. This is not an *one-up-man-ship trip*, but I 
thought it only fair to let you know...but I am always willing to learn.

Gezondheid!
George Szaszvari

Hi!

It is about time this schizoid thread made it's mind up as to what it is 
about..bridges or beer, but not both anymore, please!
The beer postings should be labelled specifically *beer*, and the bridge 
postings should be labelled specifically *bridge*. Is this not a 
reasonable proposition (he said gritting his teeth)?

George Szaszvari