I lived in Budapest for a year recently, and would love to get together
with others who share an affection for the people, language, culture of
Magyarorszag. Hungarians, Hungarian-Americans, whomever. E-mail me if
you're of a similar mind.

Koszonom. Szia. (pardon the lack of accents)

David McCracken

In article >, 
 says...
>willy, the canadian pseudo poet and artificial artist wrote:
>> |------------------------------------------------------------|
>> |o OFICIALDUMB[1] STATEMENT CONCERNING GENERAL POLICY OF    o|
>> |o THE PEOPLES REPUBLIC OF POETRY 250480                    o|
>> |o                                                          o|
>> |o The Peoples Republic of Poetry {PRP}, as its name        o|
>> |o indicates, has its historic roots {Origin Ally} in       o|
>> |o poetry. Just as the People's Republic of China is often  o|
>
>Ummm...system error. Delete Peoples Republic of Poetry {PRP} and 
>replace with pseudo republic of pseudo poetry (PROPP). It has its roots in 
>pseudo poetry. 
>Gabor

Hi Gabor. I haven't seen you posting about anything for quite awhile, at 
least not since I was the subject of discussion. I've been looking, but 
alas, it was in vain. You are a bright and intelligent person no doubt, and 
I am sure that there are several subjects you could post about that would 
interest many readers of SCM. Give it a try. You are certainly not shy. Just 
because I drop some bait into the pool doesn't mean that you have to swallow 
it hook line and sinker. Georgy contributes bits and pieces here and there 
that are of interest to others to read. I'm good for his target practice, 
but he has interesting things to say about other things. He has set an 
example, as have others, so put your best foot forward, and try another 
subject. As for me, I'm the same ole pigot of bardology.

 Johanne writes:
>No, no, that is not my point. I disagree with the state, in this
>case, the government of Quebec, restricting people's access to
>education in the language they desire to have their children
>taught in. 

So if I want my child to have his education in Swahili, then the
Quebec people should pay the expense to ensure that my child has
it. And if my neighbour wants his child to have his child
educated in Chinese in Trois Rivieres, then he should have it.
Whatever the individual person desires they should have. You are
playing fast and loose with other people's money here.

>Immigrants are often classed as allophones, which is
>the term for people whose native language is other than English
>or French. 

Well, they are not anglophones nor francophones are they. And it
gets a little unwieldy to refer to each individual phone that
immigrates to Quebec. 

>These people often wish to have their children taught
>in English, but the Quebec government forbids these people to
>send their children to English-language schools. 

Yes they do, and for damn good reasons.

>Frankly, it 
>would seem that they would be bilingual as well if they went
>to English-language school, but their bilingual facility would
>be in English and their native language rather than necessarily
>French and the native language. 

This is an incredibly incoherent sentence, especially coming from
someone involved in legal matters.

>Actually, though, when I wrote about the government restricting
>the bilingual ability of the population, I was talking about the
>native-speaking French population. The government and many of
>the Francophone people of Quebec actually discourage their young
>people from learning to speak fluent English. 

Quebec francophones are a tiny minority in the overwhelming
majority of anglophones in North America, and to boot, it is a
neighbour of the most culturally anglo-dominating force in the
world -- the USA. For God's sake, Even Anglo-Canadians take
legislative measures to protect what they consider Canadian
culture in face of the cultural beomoth to the south. Indeed,
Canada fought tooth and nail to exempt cultural matters from the
Free Trade arrangement. If Anglo-Canadians can feel their culture
threatened by the USA, then perhaps you can understand how the
Quebec francophone community feels in the face of the USA AND
English-Canada. Quebecers have had a long history of Anglo
domination and insensitivities. You and Agnes both exhibit that
same insensitivity. Quebecers need only look at the anemic
remnants of the once vibrant francophone culture that
predominated in Louisiana, to know what would happen to them if
they were to acquiese to the demands of immigrant ingrates, let
alone to the Anglo-community of Canada.

Consider how important Hungarian language education is to those
Magyars living in Erdely/Transylvania. 

>After all, if
>bilingual education is begun sufficiently early, it is not all
>that difficult to teach children well enough that they can speak
>two languages fluently. However, the Quebec government is not
>encouraging the education of its Francophone population in
>English, and this is what I mean is a narrow-minded and
>chauvinistic policy. The people seem to be afraid to have their
>young people become truly fluent in English as well as French,
>as if such fluency would result in the abandonment of the French
>language.

English education is available if you pay for it. The Quebec
government, freely elected by the majority of Quebecers, have
taken responsibility for the protection of their heritage and
culture. Virtually all of the major political parties of Quebec
find this policy agreeable. This is the voice and rule of a
highly-developed democracy. What you regard as narrow-minded,
they regard as a necessary prudency to protect their particular
culture. That you fail to understand the need for this reflects
on your ignorance and the ignorance of all too many Canadians
outside Quebec. To finance and encourage bilingualism (with its
inherent benefits as we perceive it) would be the thin edge of
the wedge that would corrode the foundation of francophone
culture in North America.
 
>>>I suppose you think that the restrictions on the language on
>>>signs in Quebec is reasonable, too.
>> 
>>I think it says French cannot be in smaller letters? This
>>leaves room for English when felt necessary, and helps the
>>French not switch to English due to massive English presence in
>>media etc - at least this is how Quebecker visitors usually
>>explain it to us in France. It makes sense to me.
>> 
>The sign law now allows English on signs if French is
>predominant, I believe. I fail to understand, though, why any
>government anywhere should be telling its population what
>language they use on the signs on their storefronts and in their
>stores. 

A typical attitude displayed by the the dominant anglophone
community of Canada/NAmerica, who are smug with the knowledge
that they enjoy the power, prestige and security of the world's
lingua franca. Sorry, but Quebec is a francophone culture and
they don't share Anglo values. The government of Quebec
represents the majority population of Quebec and it reserves the
right to inform the world that it is first and foremost a
francophone culture and that all immigrants around the world are
free to assimilate to its francophone culture. 

>If signs in a primarily Chinese-speaking area are all in 
>Chinese characters and not in English, so be it. If there is
>sufficient demand, the signs will be printed in more than one
>language. 

This is all fine and dandy within the overwhelming context of a
dominating Anglo culture. And area of Chinese here or Spanish
there, is not going to undermine Anglo culture. English has shown
itself to be resilient and versatile and capable of overwhelming
and assimilating other language-based cultures to the point of
insignificance.

>But I feel strongly that this is an area in which the
>involvement of the government must of necessity be oppressive,
>and what I have seen of the government's sign policy in Quebec
>(and btw, are you aware that they have had *language police* who
>have the power to charge store owners who violate the sign
>law?), only reinforces my opinion.

Tongue troopers they call them. Quebec wants to present itself to
the world with a French face, not a bilingual face. It is a
francophone community not a bilingual community. The anglophone
community does not want Quebec to be a francophone community or
to show a French face to the world.

>I believe in bilingualism, but I believe the policy of the
>government of Quebec has not been a policy of bilingualism but a
>French-only policy. 

Exactly. It is the English community that wants Quebec to water
down its Frenchness. It is the English community that does not
want Quebec to be all it wants to be -- FRENCH. 

>They are trying to limit, if not stamp out,
>the use of English - and other languages - in places like parts
>of Montreal, which have never in their entire history been
>French-speaking. It seems to me that the oppression by a
>minority of another minority is still oppression no matter who
>does it or for what ostensibly noble purpose it is done.

It works both ways. In the context of North America, Canada
(English Canada) has regarded itself as a mouse sleeping next to
the elephant of the USA. Quebec is 25% of Canada. So now we can
regard francophone culture as being a fragile crysalis sleeping
next to the elephant of English culture. It seems a bit ludicrous
for you to be referring to a minority oppressing another
minority. This is not reality. Quebec has been conquered by
English culture, dominated for most if its history by English
culture, and exists as a tiny tiny minority immediately next to
the world's most dominating and forceful English culture. Yes the
Quebec government has to take "oppressive" measures to protect
its distinct culture.

|D'accord, Johanne.  When we lived in Montreal, and my younger
|daughter reached 13, there were so-called French-immersion
|schools. She finished grade 8 in such a school, and then she was
|supposed to continue in a bilingual school, i.e. some subjects
|in English and some in French. I found this a terrific solution,
|but it was available only for children with English schooling,
|not vice-versa.

Finally, Quebec took full control of its culture and decided that
it was a French culture and French society, not a bilingual
society. Quebecers never lobbied for a bilingual Canada. They
lobbied for a French Quebec. Get it?

|After taht school year we moved to Toronto, where though French
|was an obligatory subject, it was on a much lower level.  I am
|advocating more French teaching in the rest of Canada, but
|otherwise I am 100% with Johanne.
|Agnes 

Advocacy is a fine activity.

Tisza Ensemble's T=E1nch=E1z:

   Saturday January 11, 1997=20

T=E1nch=E1z starts at 7:30 PM (19:00). Dancing to live (local bands T=C1NCH=
=C1Z!=20
And Maros Ensemble) and recorded music continues until 10:30 PM (22:30).=20
The basic steps of the dances will be demonstrated in special teaching
circles while each dance is going on.  You may bring food or drink as an
optional donation to the snack table.  Please bring dance footwear.=20

Admission: $4 (for non-members)

Directions to Tisza Ensemble's Dance Studio:=20

Starting Point Dance Studio, College Park, Md. Inside the Beltway.  From
I-495 take Route 1 South toward College Park. Go approximately 13-14
lights. After passing the UM complex, make a left at a light onto Calvert
Rd. The studio is in the first building on your right, behind Clean&Lean
Laudromat/Fitness Center.


Workshop with S=E1ndor & Erzs=E9bet Tim=E1r=20

On Saturday, February 22nd with S=E1ndor & Erzs=E9bet Tim=E1r.  S=E1ndor is=
 the
Artistic Director and Erzs=E9bet is Dance Director of the Hungarian State
Folk Ensemble . S=E1ndor is one of the founders of the t=E1nch=E1z movement=
=2E
Please e-mail or call for more information.


New Member Class:

New Members Class starts in January. If you would like to learn more about
Hungarian folk dancing with the goal of becoming a performing member of
Tisza Ensemble, please call Rudy Petke at (301)  929-0120 a.s.a.p..=20


=DCdv=F6zlettel,

=C1rpad F=E1bi=E1n Kov=E1cs

-- L=E1sd Tisza Egy=FCttes web oldal=E1t - Please visit the homepage of the
   Tisza Ensemble:
WWW                : http://www.glue.umd.edu/~hungaria/Tisza
WWW                : http://www.glue.umd.edu/~kovacs
personal email     : 

In the beginning there was the Lord's Prayer as delivered by the
Jewish Son of God, Jesus Christ of Nazareth. This first oral
version (1.00) was recorded by Matthew using papyrus media --
version 1.01.

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Version 2.0 is to be found in the King James version of the New
Testament of the Holy Bible, "translated out of the original
tongues: and with the former translations diligently compared and
revised..." Gutenburg media.

              Our Father
              which art in heaven,
              Hallowed be thy name.
              Thy kingdom come.
              Thy will be done
              in Earth as it is in heaven.
              Give us this day
              our daily bread.
              And forgive us
              our debts,
              as we forgive
              our debtors.
              And lead us not into temptation,
              but deliver us from evil:
              For thine is the Kingdom,
              the power, and the glory
              for ever.
              A'-men.

Version 2.01 as modified by the Trinity United Church:

              Our Father
              which art in heaven,
              Hallowed be thy name.
              Thy kingdom come.
              Thy will be done
              in Earth as it is in heaven.
              Give us this day
              our daily bread.
              And forgive us
              our trespasses,
              as we forgive
              those who trespass against us.
              And lead us not into temptation,
              but deliver us from evil:
              For thine is the Kingdom,
              the power, and the glory
              for ever and ever.
              A'-men.

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Version 3.* from the book entitled: 1ST NTRM RPORT OF TH COMISN
ON TH CAUSS & MANIFESTATNS OF DVERGNT THINK PROCEDUR CONCERNNG TH
1ST 10 YRS OF TH HISTRY OF TH PEOPLS RPUBLIC OF POETRY, published
by Samizdada Publications, 1980. This version had been previously
published in Canada's National Magazine, Macleans, April 1974,
Vol 87, No.4, page 6.

This version entitled SPONTANEUS PRINTOUT 140172 was the
image-national prayer of the Peoples Republic of Poetry. Written
in 1972 with the same cadence as the Lords Prayer in the Trinity
United Church's King James version of the New Testament of the
Bible, as follows:

               XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
              XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
              XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
              XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX  XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
              XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
              XX I B M XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX  XXXXX
              XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX  XXXXXXXXXXXX
              XX whch is evrywher XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
              XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
              XX halowd be thy data XXXXXXXXXXXX
              XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX  XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
              XX Thy nfo com XXXXX  XXXXXXXXXXXX
              XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
              XX Thy progrm b don XXXXXX  XXXXXX
              XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
              XX here as it is evrywher XXXXXXXX
              XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX  XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
              XX & giv us this day XXXXXXXXXXXXX
              XXX  XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
              XX our datacards XXXXX  XXXXXXXXXX
              XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
              XX & 4giv us XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
              XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX  XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
              XX our humn errrs XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
              XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX  XXXXXXXXX
              XX as we 4giv XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
              XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
              XX thy downtim XXXXXXXXX  XXXXXXXX
              XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
              XX & lead us nto automatn XXXXXXXX
              XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX  XXXXXXXXX
              XX & dlivr us from work XXXXXXXXXX
              XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX  XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
              XX For thyn is th memry banks XXXX
              XXXXXX  XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
              XX th nput/output terminls XXXXXXX
              XXXXXXXXXXXXXX  XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
              XX 4evr & evr XXXXXXXX  XXXXXXXXXX
              XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX  XXXXXXXXXX
              XX ohm XXXXXXXXX  XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
              XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
               XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Version 4.0* (Beta). Evolution prevails:

              SPONTANEOUS PRINTOUT 150595
              ===========================

              Microsoft
              which is everywhere
              hallowed be thy Windows
              Thy software come
              Thy program be done
              here as it is everywhere
              And give us this day
              our plug and play
              and forgive us
              our human errrors
              as we forgive
              thy loadtime
              And lead us into downsizing
              and deliver us from work
              For thine is the promises
              the promises and promises
              forever ad nauseum
              ohm

###############################################################

Under construction . . .

In the case that you, as a financially strong investor are looking for
very  high yield offerings, which do not belong to so-called
"roll-over-" or"trading" programs I would invite you to obtain some
confidential information on this specific investment facilty. 

In this respect the required minimum capital would be 3.0 million US $,
but the earnings are really excellent. It is a  joint US&german
government backed R&D investment program, which has a strong political
background. And it is the last one, which will be executed under this
official entity. German investors should not participate with the
program, for a number of reasons (even historical ones) I could explain
upon request.

If a private investor, an investment bank or a fund raising organisation
would invest 3.0 m $, he could rely on an officially backed government
pool of funds, therefore this investment does not bear any risk of
capital loss and it provides  10 monthly earnings far above competition.
The capital investment will flow back within 1 month only, and it is all
done on secured titles.The initial investment to join could be higher,
if the investor wants to do so, but always in lots of 3.0 million
dollars (3/6/9/12...m). 

This is not a bad joke ! The project has a deadline to enter of

                   ************************
                   *  JANUARY 12 th, 1997 *
                   ************************

and it will take place in Florida, USA. Cash funds could be replaced by
an AAA-guarantee, but in this case the paper should be available by  one
day earlier.

All persons involved are highly reputated individuals who would not risk
their positions if this matter would not be 100% clean.

The only problem we are facing is this terribly tough time schedule. If
funds are not transferred to the escrow account in the US up to the
mentioned deadline it is not possible to participate with the final
program which will start definitely on 15 January 5:00 p.m.

I would be glad if you would be interested to place funds for this very
attractive investment. Please do not hesitate to contact me

Yours sincerely

Reinhard Firlinger
Investment advisor and broker
Vienna, Austria
phones : +43 1 4701002 , +43 2985 308793, +43 664 1028188
fax: +43 2985 308794

*************end of message***********

What you say below is not quite correct.  Vikings settled both Iceland and
Greenland.  They killed a lot of the natives on Greenland, but Iceland was
an empty land when they discovered it.

-- 
David Cannon
)

Justin Cobb > wrote in article
>...
> Brynjolfur Olason ) wrote:
> : Steve Kiely wrote:
> : > 
> : > Name one (1) country with a racist-free history:
> : > 
> : > 1.
> : > 
> : > Steve Kiely
> : > http://www.magna.com.au/~c41
> : 
> : Iceland - the Northern fringe of the world! Just check it out.
> 
> umm....
> 
> questions:
> 
> 1. Who settled Iceland?
> 2. What did those people do to others they encountered?
> 
> answers:
> 
> 1. Norwegians/Vikings
> 2. Killed them
> 
> 
>

Non Racist countries
1. Gt. Britain
2. After 2nd World War Germany compelled to pushout from their colonies.
3. Colonial powers do not accept this fact and now they wanted to pose 
themselves as the human right preservers. In Australia they called the 
human species Aborginies "they are not humans?" that's all...

In article >,  
says...
>
>I'd be grateful if someone could translate this passage into English
>(or French, or German) for me. It's from an interview with Terry Jones
>of Monty Python's Flying Circus (http://mm.iit.uni-miskolc.hu/Lart/
>iview/terry.html).
>
>"Ez azért van, mert nem kötôdtünk szorosan sem helyhez, sem idôhöz.
>Ha mégis megemlítettük egy miniszter - például Reginald Maudling -
>nevét,
>akkor sem konkrétan ôt, hanem az általa képviselt embertípust, "a"
>politikust akartuk megidézni. Nem szándékosan törekedtünk az
>egyetemességre,
>inkább ösztönösen tartózkodtunk az aktualitásoktól."

>This is because we did not tie in closely with either location or time. 
 Even if we mentioned the name of a minister, eg. Richardd Maudling, it 
was not him we referred to but to the type of people he represented, i.e. 
"the" politician.  We didn't voluntarily wanted to strive to 
universality, but stayed away intuitively from the actualities.

(This is a rather raw, literal translation, and I have to admit that I 
don't quite understand the meaning of the last sentence, but I hope it 
helps somewhat).

Agnes

Justin Cobb wrote:
> 
> Brynjolfur Olason ) wrote:
> : Steve Kiely wrote:
> : >
> : > Name one (1) country with a racist-free history:
> : >
> : > 1.
> : >
> : > Steve Kiely
> : > http://www.magna.com.au/~c41
> :
> : Iceland - the Northern fringe of the world! Just check it out.
> 
> umm....
> 
> questions:
> 
> 1. Who settled Iceland?
> 2. What did those people do to others they encountered?
> 
> answers:
> 
> 1. Norwegians/Vikings
> 2. Killed them

Also Iceland had a whites only immigration policy till only a few years 
ago (maybe a decade or so).

-- 

Walter Rumsby


"Would you settle for a mobile home
 With a good record store and a public phone?"
 - You Am I ("If We Can't Get It Together")

Hi....I came across a great Web Site, that teaches Hungarian! I dont know
how advanced it is...cause I am just starting to look through it. It is
free...so check the site out! 

http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~arubin/hungarian.html  

Joris Van Looveren > wrote in article
>...
> 
> Hello,
> 
> 
> I am a Belgiam computer science student and I am doing a project on
> the Hungarian language. I know an Hungarian girl who helps me with it,
but
> some questions are digging a littlebit too deep in the Hungarian language
> for her to answer. The problem is that she is not an expert on the
grammar
> of her language, so that she cannot explain the finer details of things
> that don't exist in Dutch and therefore are difficult to grasp for me. If
> you can help me or know anyone who can help me, please let me know!
> 
> 
> Please reply by e-mail if you can. Thanks in advance.
> 
> 
> Joris.
> 
> 
> PS. Sorry if this post landed in the wrong newsgroup. Could you advise
>     me on a more appropriate one if this is the case? Thanks.
> 
> 
>                                       \ \    / /    Joris Van Looveren
>                                        \ \  / /     
>  ___________________________________ ___> \/ <____  VUB - Brussel
> 
>

Stephen G. Vasko wrote:
> 
> I understand that the word Magyar equals Hungarian, but it was also my husban
d's Great
> Grandmother's maiden name. She was from Hungary. Have you heard of it as a la
st name
> before?
> 
> Thank You,
> 
> J. Vasko
my last name is Magyar,as far as i know it was a tribe of barbarians in
bc time.Now it means hungaria.

Love without passion, society without conflict, people without brain.  You are 
in a mindless search.        

In article >,  wrote:
>On Thu, 02 Jan 1997 14:09:06 -0800, Oaktoad >
>wrote:
>
>>W Louw wrote:
>>> 
>>> Steve Kiely wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Name one (1) country with a racist-free history:
>>> >
>>> > 1.Antarctica!
>>> >
>>> > Steve Kiely
>>> > http://www.magna.com.au/~c41
>>
>>close but no cigar. It is a continent, not a country.
>
>
>Yeah, so is Austrialia, but we refer to it as a country.

You listing is posted under http://www.onsite.net/estate.
I hope you get a lots of responds.

Hudson