In article >, 
says...
<snip>..
>Earlier you asked what historical documentation has there been where a
>society has recognized homosexual behavior.  Well, one interesting book
>totally slipped my mind, you may want to read it:
>SAME-SEX UNIONS in Premodern Europe  by  John Boswell
>ISBN: 0-679-75164-5

I've seen quite a few titles on this subject. A couple I remember
looking at are:

*One Hundred Years of Homosexuality* (apparently, the term *homosexual*
was coined just over 100 years ago. I can't remember much about this
book except that it was fairly wide ranging on the sociological factors)

Greek Homosexuality (Ancient Greece, that is. Aristophanes considered
homosexual love to be *nobler* than heterosexual love [see Plato's
*The Symposium*] and homosexual relationships were positively encouraged
in the Spartan armed forces, etc, etc...)

Sorry, no authors or ISBN numbers.

--
George Szaszvari, DCPS Chess Club, 42 Alleyn Park, London SE21 7AA, UK
Planet Earth, Milky Way Galaxy * ARM Club * C=64..ICPUG * NW London CC

In >  writes:

  > Dear Roman Kanala,
  >
  > Thank you for your eloquent posting of August 30, 1996. It is
  > extremely clear the dilution  Mr. Frajkor is suffering of.
  >
  > I am personally in process of locating members of the board of
  > trusties at University of Carleton, Ottawa. NAZI orientations
  > like his are to be isolated, curtailed and expelled from the
  > society.
  >
  > A. Albu

It's you again! Mr. Kanala and Mr. Frajkor are participating here in
what is know as "Freedom of the speech", which is know here in USA as
"First amendment to the constitution". For that you are threatening one
of them with a personal harm and persecution. If one were to compare
you to a nazi, it would be a genuine insult to all nazis. Does not
Canada have anti-stalking laws? Just go away, and stay away, please.

Ross Hedvicek ) wrote:
:
: >My professional advice is to ignore
: >Mr.Kanala.  Sick individuals like him need treatment and lots
: >of rest.  The best you can do is to ignore his self-advertisements
: >and postings claiming his self-righteousness,
: >which will hopefully help him overcome his sickness.
:
: Professional? "Professionals" like you put Andrei Sakharov to mental
: hospital because his opinions were not liked by the communist regime. I
: assume that you "earned" your questionable title during a communist
: regime, too..

Nice try.  I have a degree from York, but that's beside the point.
As a therapist, I deal with a lot of people that have various handicaps,
and ATTENTION SEEKERS (like Mr. Kanala here) are among them.
Just look at his postings: advertising his usenet threads, crossposting,
purposely picking controversial issues, and when discussion is heated
abandoning them (I have (unfortunately) came across many threads where
he never responeded to the replies.).  We call such people
shit disturbers (=naseru peknu kopku, potom s palickou pichnu do toho
hovna, a potom ujdu prec).  Furthermore, his focus is somehow on Slovakia
only, ignoring other nations that have perhaps much more pressing issues
to talk about.  He is ready to provide statstical and geographical data
to support his lies (never footnoted by the way, that I have seen),
however he totally misplaced my e-mail "yorku.ca" to be a USA university.
Just look at the usenet posting of the type: "I will be posting shortly,
stay tuned."  What kind of crap is that?  I don't need commercials
on the 'Net, especialy from sickos like Mr. Kanala.
In contrast with other posters in this group, Mr. Kanala usually
starts threads, hoping to get a response.  Mr. Frajkor and others
usually respond (defensively) to an offensive posting.
Why would someone come to the 'Net to stirr up shit and get a kick out
of it?  Mr. Kanala is clearly a morbid person.

An EFFECTIVE way to deal with ATTENTION SEEKERS is to IGNORE them.
It is sometimes hard to pass by a posting in this group that insults
me to the bone, but remember, the author is SICK.  Unfortunately,
it is not possible to shake someone's head, or smash a beer bottle
on it as someone suggested; that's not how these handicaps are dealt with.

Calling people names, insulting people on the 'Net, leaving useless
messages (Mr. Lewinsky), are not very productive postings.
Remember, the 'Net is run by people, there is no governing body.
If this, or other, newsgroup deterriaorates to name-calling
and insulting, people will move elsewhere.

Szurek

At 11:41 PM 8/30/96 EDT, The Rambo wrote:
>Since when your name is "Marina"?And why do you have to
>put your nose in to any matters?And why don't you stick to
>your profession,like sniffing after people?
>The Rambo Arpi.

Hey, he knows how to spell it after all. Probably just testing me.

Gabor D. Farkas

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On Sat, 31 Aug 1996, S or G Farkas wrote:
> >[... usual ramble] The Rambo Arpi.
>
> Hey, he knows how to spell it after all.

 This remains to be seen; so far, it looks more like the experiment
with zillions of monkeys typing away blindly ;-)...

 --
 Zoli , keeper of <http://www.hix.com/hungarian-faq/>;
*SELLERS BEWARE: I will never buy anything from companies associated
*with inappropriate online advertising (unsolicited commercial email,
*excessive multiposting etc), and discourage others from doing so too!


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At 01:56 PM 8/30/96 EDT, ARPAD BERECZKY, the Rambo Arpi, wrote:

>No kiddin' sweetie!Say,are you requesting,or ordering me back
>to the Forum?.....

Sweetie is a nice word.  That's what I'll call you, sweetie.  But you know,
sweetie, I don't think you're going to find many friends on this list.

Joe Szalai

"When he said we were trying to make a fool of him, I could only murmur that
the Creator had beat us to it."
            Ilka Chase

Dear Colleagues,

The summer is just about over. I hope you are well rested and ready to resume
your work in the Hungarian Lobby. The next two months will be critical, as
our goal is nothing less, than to introduce a new issue into the American
presidential campaign: to make the support for collective human rights an
integral part of American foreign policy.

If you are busy, if you are not interested in reading about the pros and cons
of our various actions: PLEASE SIGN UP TO HL-ACTION:
 Address:   and write in text: subscribe hl-action

Please find attached a complete Action list of all projects, that are in
progress. Please study the list and please take part in the projects that you
agree with. If you need more information, contact the individual(s) who have
initiated the particular action. If I left out some actions, please let me
know.

Three projects deserve particular mentioning:

1) The letters to Congressmen Smith, Shays, Torricelli and Funderburk are
urgent as the Romanian delegation arrives in Washington on September 2.

2) Our effort to inform the local press about the historic role of
Pannonhalma is urgent, as the Pope arrives there on the 6th of September. On
August 20, we have placed nearly a dozen articles in the American papers.
Congratulations to all who took part. After the Pope's visit, we will start
sending articles to our local papers, about the 40th anniversary of the
Hungarian Revolution. Please take part.

3) Please find attached two form-letters addressed to the American
presidential candidates. These letters will be the most important ones
between now and November. Please send them out every day(!)  Please,
distribute them to all your acquaintances who care about human rights. Not
only Hungarians! Not only Central Europeans, but all! Hand them out to your
students, take the form letters to your church or synagogue, and most
importantly, have faith and be convinced,  that we can, that we will reach
our goal. I know we can, because the wind of history is in our favor, because
what we are trying to achieve is against no one, because our goal is also in
the interest of the United States, and because, when Benes influenced
American policy, he had less strength than what we have today. Please collect
signatures, send fax-es, please be a participant, not a spectator. Don't make
comments, take action! Let us be the catalyst of a nation-wide movement in
favor of collective human rights. 

Best regards: Bela Liptak
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
LIST OF HL-ACTIONS IN PROGRESS
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX 

BACKGROUND INFORMATION (Articles, Lists)

Csángó Problem (13)
Cseresznyes - Facts (25 and 40))
Danube and the Compromise Plan (2)
E-Mail Lists of Media and Politicians (2)
Hungarian Economy (34)
Hungarian History (1 & 24)
Linguists Against the Slovak Language Law (26) 
Our Blind Spot for Vojvodina (2)
Pannonhalma (2)
Proclamation of the Hungarians in Slovakia (2)
Road to Peace: Collective Human Rights (2)
Slovak Constitution (4)
State Dept.: Romanian Human Rights Practice (32)
Subcarpathia (4)
Transylvania and the Romanian Constitution (3)
Trianon (2)
Vojvodina (1)
Vojvodina, history of genocide (33)
Voting rights of duel citizens (22)
1956 Memoirs (2)

LETTER, ARTICLE AND FAX CAMPAIGNS (Formletters)

Amnesty for Pal Cseresznyes (2)
Commemorative Stamp for 40th Anniversary (2)
Congratulate Mayor of Marosvasarhely, Imre Fodror (25)
Congratulate Gyorgy Konrad (2)
Congratulate Jeno de Tassy (2)
Correct API/UPI/Reuter Reports
Cry Hungary - Demand to show the BBC film in HUngary (2)
Danube - International Court of Justice (2)
            - Protest distortions in Nepszabadsag (2)
           - Request to Gyula Horn to make position public (2)
           - Support for Environmental NGO Memorial (2)
           - Support Compromise Plan (2)
           - Stopping the J.P. Morgan Loan (2) 
Debt Rescheduling, a Request to G7 (2)
Debt Repayment by Hungarian Stocks, Recommendation to Finance Minister (2)
       - 
Hungarian Secret Police - Opening the III/II Files (2,11,31)
Letters To Defense Secretary Perry on NATO's Role in Romanian Election (2)
Protesting Censorship in Hungarian Museum (39)
Protesting Gerrymandering in Slovakia (2)
Protesting Slovak Language Police ( 9)
Protesting Romanian Educational Policy in Transylvania (2)
Protest Biased CNN Report (19)
Roma Problem: Asking for Protection (2)
                        Used clothing for the Transylvanian Roma (30)
Saint Stephen's Crown - Demand to move into more respectable surroundings (2)
Stamp to Commemorate the Hungarian Revolution (2)
Support for Somorja's Mayor on Language Law's Constitutionality (2)
Support for Unitarian Statement on Human Rights in Romania (5) 
Thanks to Michal Kovac (2)
Thanks to Congressmen Funderburk, Smith and Torricelli (2)
USA Presidential Campaign - Letter to Clinton/Dole (2, 8 &17)
40th Anniversary - Support for Depoliticizing (2) 
                         - Request US House Resolution to Honor Anniversary
(2)

OTHER PROJECTS
Donations to Publish History of Bolyai Farkas Liceum (16 & 20)
Donations for Building School Dormitory in Szabadka (27)
Fund-raising for Hungarian Press in Slovakia (6)
October 23rd Advertisement on NY Times OP-Ed Page (37)
Order Dr. I. Benko's book on Trianon (35)
Support printing of postcards and stamps for Danube lawsuit (38)

NUMBER CODES:
1) 
2) HL archives at http://mineral.umd.edu/hl/archive/ or 
3) 
4) 
5) 
6) László Böjtös, 11312 Fitzwater Dr. Brecksville, OH 44141
7) 
8) 
9) Eugene Megyesy Esq., fax: 303-832-3804
10) 
11) 
12) 
13) kurrah.cab.jgytf.u-szeged.hu  OR 
(14) 
(15) 
(16) Cultural Foundation for Transylvania, POB 1487, Washington DC 20013-1487
(17) Dr. J.L. Bollyky (fax: 203-967-4845)
(18) 
(19)  
(20) 
(21) 
(22) 
(23) 
(24) http://www.mediarange.com/media/huncor/huncor.htm
(25) 
(26) 
(27) 
(28) HHRF fax: 212-996-6268, Hungarian Coalition fax: 202-775-5175
(29) 
(30) International Roma Federation, Sandor Balogh, VP. 308 E. 80th St. NYC
10021, Fax: 212-472-7782.
(31) 
(32) 
(33) 
(34) 
(35) Dr. I. Benko, 18222 Robin Ave, Somona, CA 95476
(36) 
(37) 
(38) Laszlo Kertesz, Veszprem, Varga u. 8/8, Hungary
(39) 
(40) 


XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
LETTER #1
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Reply to:______________________________________________________
Date:_________________________________________________________

President Bill Clinton
The White House
1600 Pennsylvania Ave
Washington, D.C.
(e-mail: )

RE: Support Collective Human Rights in Central Europe

Dear Mr. President,

Every culture is sacred, the destruction of a single one, mutilates the
heritage of the entire human race. International standards are needed to
protect all of them. We, Americans must accept the historical responsibility
to lead in the development of such international standards, which will
protect the collective human rights of all indigenous minority groups.

We must lead, as we pass on the bridge to the 21st Century, just as we did a
few decades ago, in  connection with the protection of individual human
rights. Collective rights flow from those of the individual, because such
basic rights as the use of one's language can only be practiced in groups.
There is no other choice. There are no melting-pots in the Screbenicas of the
World. The alternative to cultural autonomy are  mass graves and cultural
cleansing.

Mr. President: In this century, the United States was forced three times, to
intervene in Europe. The only way to permanently eliminate the need for
sending our troops on similar missions in the future, is to eliminate the
cause of these conflicts. This should be done by uniformly satisfying the
aspitations of all indigenous minority groups. If, as the next president of
the United States, you would make the defense of collective human rights and
cultural autonomy, a cornerstone of your foreign policy, you would
permanently eliminate the need for our G.I.s  getting entangled in future
European conflicts.

As a member of the 1.58 million community of Hungarian-Americans, I ask you
to make the cultural autonomy of all indigenous national minorities of
Central Europe, an integral part of your foreign policy. 

Respectfully yours,
Your name, address and title. If this letter is signed by many, please use
the attached form to list the names and addresses.

NAME                                  ADDRESS
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
LETTER # 2
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Reply to:______________________________________________________
Date:_________________________________________________________
  
Senator Bob Dole
United States Senate
Washington, D.C. 20510
(Fax: 202-408-9468)

Dear Senator Dole,

RE: Support Collective Human Rights in Central Europe

Dear Mr. Senator,

Every culture is sacred, the destruction of a single one, mutilates the
heritage of the entire human race. International standards are needed to
protect all of them. We, Americans must accept the historical responsibility
to lead in the development of such international standards, which will
protect the collective human rights of all indigenous minority groups.

We must lead, if we want a stable and peaceful Europe. Just as we lead the
efforts a few decades ago, when we developed the international standards to
protect individual human rights, we have to lead again. Collective rights
flow from those of the individual, because such basic rights as the use of
one's language can only be practiced in groups. There is no other choice.
There are no melting-pots in the Screbenicas of the World. The alternative to
cultural autonomy are the mass graves and cultural cleansing.

Mr. Senator: In this century, the United States was forced three times, to
intervene in Europe. The only way to permanently eliminate the need for
sending our troops on similar missions in the future, is to eliminate the
cause of these conflicts. This should be done by uniformly satisfying the
aspitations of all indigenous minority groups. If, as the next president of
the United States, you would make the defense of collective human rights and
cultural autonomy, a cornerstone of your foreign policy, you would
permanently eliminate the need for our G.I.s  getting entangled in future
European conflicts.

As a member of the 1.58 million strong community of Hungarian-Americans, I
ask you to make the cultural autonomy of all indigenous national minorities
of Central Europe, an integral part of your foreign policy. 

Respectfully yours,
Your name, address and title. If this letter is signed by many, please use
the attached form to list the names and addresses.

NAME                                  ADDRESS
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Well,I always had a second thought,that you are a smart cookie
after all,no matter what others saying about you.And about that
warning at the end of each of your letters: "sellers beware..".
Seems to be you are the only one on this list who has a phobia
about salesmen.You obviously burned your finger in the past.
Well,cheer up,there is a sucker born in every minute.Perhaps
creating your own webpage will help your phobia.Call it:"Suckers
of the world,assemble!"
And psssst!You are not agent "Lup".

The Rambo Arpi.

"Sweetie is a nice word.  That's what I'll call you, sweetie.  But you know,
sweetie, I don't think you're going to find many friends on this list.

Joe Szalai"

With friends like you,and your kind,who the hell needs enemies?By the
way,why don't you mind your own business?

The Rambo Arpi.

At 11:41 PM 8/30/96 EDT, you wrote:
>Since when your name is "Marina"?And why do you have to
>put your nose in to any matters?And why don't you stick to
>your profession,like sniffing after people?
>The Rambo Arpi.
>
Dear Group:

When I see this type of shit on the net, the only thing that comes to mind
is that some degree of maturity is obviously lacking.  If we were to utilize
the Hungarian saying "everyone comes from within", (mindenki maga'bol indul
ki), just what sort of "within" is there?

What is this crapola, of Agent Lup anyhow?  Am I the only one sitting in the
bushes?

Please enlighten - Aniko.

Dr. Kristina:  At 01:39 PM 8/30/96 GMT, you wrote:

To the rest of the listmembers, apologies... did not quite know what to cut,
so as to keep with PMS and all....I am reposting....
>
>Nice try.  I have a degree from York, but that's beside the point.
>As a therapist, I deal with a lot of people that have various handicaps,
>and ATTENTION SEEKERS (like Mr. Kanala here) are among them.
>Just look at his postings: advertising his usenet threads, crossposting,
>purposely picking controversial issues, and when discussion is heated
>abandoning them (I have (unfortunately) came across many threads where
>he never responeded to the replies.).  We call such people
>shit disturbers (=naseru peknu kopku, potom s palickou pichnu do toho
>hovna, a potom ujdu prec).  Furthermore, his focus is somehow on Slovakia
>only, ignoring other nations that have perhaps much more pressing issues
>to talk about.  He is ready to provide statstical and geographical data
>to support his lies (never footnoted by the way, that I have seen),
>however he totally misplaced my e-mail "yorku.ca" to be a USA university.
>Just look at the usenet posting of the type: "I will be posting shortly,
>stay tuned."  What kind of crap is that?  I don't need commercials
>on the 'Net, especialy from sickos like Mr. Kanala.
>In contrast with other posters in this group, Mr. Kanala usually
>starts threads, hoping to get a response.  Mr. Frajkor and others
>usually respond (defensively) to an offensive posting.
>Why would someone come to the 'Net to stirr up shit and get a kick out
>of it?  Mr. Kanala is clearly a morbid person.
>
>An EFFECTIVE way to deal with ATTENTION SEEKERS is to IGNORE them.
>It is sometimes hard to pass by a posting in this group that insults
>me to the bone, but remember, the author is SICK.  Unfortunately,
>it is not possible to shake someone's head, or smash a beer bottle
>on it as someone suggested; that's not how these handicaps are dealt with.
>
>Calling people names, insulting people on the 'Net, leaving useless
>messages (Mr. Lewinsky), are not very productive postings.
>Remember, the 'Net is run by people, there is no governing body.
>If this, or other, newsgroup deterriaorates to name-calling
>and insulting, people will move elsewhere.
>
>Szurek
>
Dear Dr. Kristina:

I have ran accross alot of very uneducatedly brilliant people in my life,
whom could clearly put you to shame based on the above.....  along with a
lot of extremely educated ones, who would likely do the same.

One thing that both would have in common is the outmost respect for
professionalism.  From the most uneducated to the most educated; each
possess a code of ethics - some sworn to; others sworn to by morals.  You
have in my opinion, violated both in a most disrespectful way.  And since
you claim to be a professional therapist, you of all the people ought to
know the oath you had sworn to....(just in case you missed my my drift)?

Btw... from reading Kanala, he never associated you with the US.  Carleton
University is in Ottawa, being the capital Canada.... just to correct your
geographical knowledge a tad....since your backpaddling is painfully obvious.

Check that oath you took prior to "becoming" a therapist....?  Anyone owes
at least that to their professed profession.

Aniko.. (or do you require credentials to go with that)?