Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
HIX HUNGARY 964
Copyright (C) HIX
1997-04-09
Új cikk beküldése (a cikk tartalma az író felelőssége)
Megrendelés Lemondás
1 Re: No HUNGARY content, but it's funny (mind)  7 sor     (cikkei)
2 Founding Hungarian Communities (mind)  53 sor     (cikkei)
3 HL-Action: letter to AL GORE (mind)  94 sor     (cikkei)
4 Re: No HUNGARY content, but it's funny (mind)  20 sor     (cikkei)
5 Re: Founding Hungarian Communities (mind)  39 sor     (cikkei)
6 Re: No HUNGARY content, but it's funny (mind)  25 sor     (cikkei)
7 Re: Founding Hungarian Communities (mind)  58 sor     (cikkei)
8 Re: The First Hungarians in America (mind)  52 sor     (cikkei)
9 Re: No HUNGARY content, but it's funny (mind)  12 sor     (cikkei)
10 Re: The First Hungarians in America (mind)  23 sor     (cikkei)
11 Re: No HUNGARY content, but it's funny (mind)  20 sor     (cikkei)

+ - Re: No HUNGARY content, but it's funny (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Andrew J. Rozsa wrote:
>
> "We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters
> will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to
> the Internet, we know this is not true."
Na mi toertent, Bandi?
M.
+ - Founding Hungarian Communities (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 03:24 PM 4/8/97 -0400, Barna, in "Re: The First Hungarians in America"
wrote:

<snip>
>Laszlo Papp the president of Western Region of the World Federation of
>Hungarians in a recent article (Nemzet, 97.03.30) entitled "Milyen jovo var
>a szetszortsagban elokre? -- Sziveben el a nemzet" (What is the future of
>the diaspora? - A nation lives in the heart of its people) wrote the
>following :
>
>"Az erzelmi kotodesen tul az idonkenti magyarorszagi latogatas mellett, a
>magyar kultura idegen nyelven valo megismerese, a magyar egyesuleti es
>kozossegi kapcsolatok idegen nyelven valo apolasa lehet az a megtarto ero,
>amely szorvanyainkat megmentheti a teljes beolvadastol. Ilyen celt
>szolgalhatnak a magyar kultura mas nyelveken valo megjeleniteset munkalo
>kiadvanyok."
>
>(Beyond the sentimental attachment and occasional visit to Hungary, the
>opportunity to learn about the Hungarian culture, or to maintain a
>community spirit in foreign languages can become a force which could
>preserve the diaspora from complete assimilation. Publications which
>disseminate the Hungarian culture in other languages than Hungarian could
>help this cause.)
>
>Lets hope he will do more than just write about this important issue.

I'm afraid the Hungarian diaspora is going to need a lot more than
publications if it is to survive and thrive.  We may have to think about
founding Hungarian communities in Canada and the United States.  Having
cultural reference points outside Hungary may prove crucial for the diaspora.

Hungarian communities were founded in the past and none are thriving today.
 Why should we try the same thing again?  Well, why not?  For starters,
it's not illegal.  Also, technological changes now make it possible for
people to live almost anywhere they want and still have a job.  That was
not the case in the past.

Obviously, we couldn't have exclusive Hungarian communities but we can have
communities where the majority, or perhaps a very large minority, are
Hungarian.  Toronto and Cleveland have tens of thousands of Hungarians but
they are no more than drops in a bucket because the cities are so large.
Imagine if those tens of thousands of Hungarians lived in a smaller
community not far from those large cities.  The difference, in terms of
culture, would be measurable.

How would we go about founding new communities?  Would it be desirable?
Would anyone in the diaspora actually want to live in a predominantly
Hungarian community?  I really don't know.  However, the idea of a
Hungarian community excites me.

What do you think?

Joe Szalai
+ - HL-Action: letter to AL GORE (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

****************** CALL FOR ACTION ****************

Priority:
   normal

Background:
  Hungary's position in the Danube lawsuit at the International Court
of Justice in The Hague is very promising. However, even if the court
rules in favour for the environment it is possible that the Slovak
government does not accept the sentence.
  It is important that influential politicians of USA support our
position, since in this case Slovakia probably does not dare to reject
the decision of the court.

What to do:
  Please ask vice president Al Gore to make a statement in favour for
the environment of Szigetkoz. Feel free to use the attached NEW form
letter. Al Gore  will only take notice if he receives thousands of
letters.
      SEND SEVERAL LETTERS A DAY!!! PLEASE DO NOT ONLY SEND
      THEM BY E-MAIL!  Send them even by fax or "priority
      mail".  Below are the fax number, and the priority mail
      addresses you should use.
      In all cases, put the names of both the Vice President
      and one or another of his key aides on the top of the
      fax, or on the envelope address.
key aides:
Executive Assistant to the Vice President: Heather Marabeti
Deputy Chief of Staff:                        David Strauss
Director of Political Affairs:              Karen Elizabeth Skelton

address of key aides as well as of Al Gore:
Room 276, Old Executive Office Building
Washington, DC  20501
fax number: 202-456-7044

e-mail address of Al Gore:


*************************************************************

<date>

The Honorable Al Gore
Vice President of the United States
The White House
Washington, D.C. 20001
(E-Mail: 

Dear Mr. Vice President,

On the 21st of August, 1993, you wrote to professor Bela Liptak
about your concern for the Danube ecosystem. Today, humankind is
approaching an important precedent: On the 3rd of March, 1997 the
International Court of Justice has started the oral phase of the first
international environmental lawsuit in The Hague.

By the end of October, the ICJ will decide on this case involving the
Danube and the destruction of its ancient wetland region: the
Szigetkoz. This name, loosely translated, means: "The region of a
thousand islands," yet today there are no islands left there, because
the water is gone. Still, the implications of this case go beyond the
future of just one river or just the 400 endangered species of one
ancient ecosystem.

This lawsuit will set a precedent for the whole planet and will
answer a much more basic question:  Do national governments have the
right to destroy the natural natural treasures of this planet, or does
humankind as a whole have the right to protect them?

Mr. Vice President, in 1995, nine international NGOs have submitted a
memorial to ICJ, which the Court accepted. A Compromise Plan was also
submitted to the Court, which would guarantee the restoration of the
ancient Szigetkoz wetlands, together with fulfilling the water-supply,
shipping and energy needs of the region. For details of this plan or
for other aspects of the lawsuit, information is available at the Web
site: http://www.goodpoint.com/duna.htm or from prof. Liptak.

Dear Mr. Gore. There is little question that in October the ICJ will
order Slovakia to return the Danube into its natural riverbed and will
also order the restoration of the Szigetkoz wetlands. But the ICJ has
no powers to enforce its rulings. Therefore it will be up to the
international community to force Slovakia to obey the ruling. This
being the first international environmental lawsuit before the ICJ,
the outcome will establish an important precedent. The Slovak
Government must understand that there is a price to be paid for being
admitted into the European Community or into NATO. That price must
include the respect for international law. A statement by you, would
guarantee that the Slovak Government understands this. Please make
that statement.

Respectfully yours,

<Your name, title and address>
+ - Re: No HUNGARY content, but it's funny (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 09:49 AM 4/9/97 +0200, you wrote:
>Andrew J. Rozsa wrote:
>>
>> "We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters
>> will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to
>> the Internet, we know this is not true."

>Na mi toertent, Bandi?
>M.

Semmi kulonos. Pont most. :-))

Az ember csak figyeli hogy menyi marhasagot irnak honfitarsaink (nem pont
itt), es
arra emlekesztem hogy valaki, egyetemi oktatasomban annak indejeben, aszt
modta hogy ha egy millio majom gepezne egy millio gepiron, akkor ........

Just  an observation. Nothing special. :-)

Bandi
+ - Re: Founding Hungarian Communities (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On Wed, 9 Apr 1997, Joe Szalai wrote:

> I'm afraid the Hungarian diaspora is going to need a lot more than
> publications if it is to survive and thrive.  We may have to think about
> founding Hungarian communities in Canada and the United States.  Having
> cultural reference points outside Hungary may prove crucial for the diaspora.

I agree, but I can not come up with a credible plan. All I can say with
conviction that a respectable monthly magazine, like the Hungarian Heritage
Review was, would be a good start. To get this started we would need a
foundation to finance it for a couple of years. After that, I think
subscription fees would support it.

> Hungarian communities were founded in the past and none are thriving today.
> Why should we try the same thing again?  Well, why not?  For starters,
> it's not illegal.  Also, technological changes now make it possible for
> people to live almost anywhere they want and still have a job.  That was
> not the case in the past.

The Hungarians were always divided. The first Canadian community was
divided along religious lines. Bekevar was protestant while Kaposvar was
mainly Roman Catholic. Or look at the Kossuth Park (a vacation community
with nice little cottages) in Port Colborne, ON. This was established in
the 1960's by Hungarian-Canadians of the Kossuth Club. The DP-s would not
even go near that "communist" place. They gave me a dirty look for even
asking directions to find it.

> How would we go about founding new communities?  Would it be desirable?
> Would anyone in the diaspora actually want to live in a predominantly
> Hungarian community?  I really don't know.  However, the idea of a
> Hungarian community excites me.
> What do you think?

Take a look at the retirement communities like St Elizabeth village in
Hamilton, ON; or the Bethlen Home in Ligonier, PA; or the Lorantffy Home in
Akron, OH; or Foyer Hongrois in Montreal, QC. These are primarily for retired
people, but still they could serve as reference.

Barna Bozoki
+ - Re: No HUNGARY content, but it's funny (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Andrew J. Rozsa wrote:
>
> At 09:49 AM 4/9/97 +0200, you wrote:
> >Andrew J. Rozsa wrote:
> >>
> >> "We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters
> >> will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to
> >> the Internet, we know this is not true."
>
> >Na mi toertent, Bandi?
> >M.
>
> Semmi kulonos. Pont most. :-))
>
> Az ember csak figyeli hogy menyi marhasagot irnak honfitarsaink (nem pont
> itt), es
> arra emlekesztem hogy valaki, egyetemi oktatasomban annak indejeben, aszt
> modta hogy ha egy millio majom gepezne egy millio gepiron, akkor ........
>
> Just  an observation. Nothing special. :-)
>
> Bandi
Still, you never know. A valosznuesege annak ugyan nagyon kicsi,
de nem nulla!!! :-)))
Miklos
+ - Re: Founding Hungarian Communities (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

We should also include the St Elizabeth Home, Nursing Home and Retirement Villa
ge at Blacktown near Sydney Australia which was opened in 1966 and has grown to
 include 18 retirement units, a Retirement Home of 50 rooms with communal kitch
en facilities and a 40 bed Nursing Home. Also on the site is a museum of Hungar
ian art, mainly, but not exclusively of wood carvings and a sizeable Hungarian 
library. 
There are similar establishments in Melbourne and Adelaide.

Regards
Dénes 



----------
From:  Barnabas Bozoki[SMTP:]
Sent:  Thursday, 10 April 1997 4:39
To:  Multiple recipients of list HUNGARY
Subject:  Re: Founding Hungarian Communities

On Wed, 9 Apr 1997, Joe Szalai wrote:

> I'm afraid the Hungarian diaspora is going to need a lot more than
> publications if it is to survive and thrive.  We may have to think about
> founding Hungarian communities in Canada and the United States.  Having
> cultural reference points outside Hungary may prove crucial for the diaspora.

I agree, but I can not come up with a credible plan. All I can say with
conviction that a respectable monthly magazine, like the Hungarian Heritage
Review was, would be a good start. To get this started we would need a
foundation to finance it for a couple of years. After that, I think
subscription fees would support it.

> Hungarian communities were founded in the past and none are thriving today.
> Why should we try the same thing again?  Well, why not?  For starters,
> it's not illegal.  Also, technological changes now make it possible for
> people to live almost anywhere they want and still have a job.  That was
> not the case in the past.

The Hungarians were always divided. The first Canadian community was
divided along religious lines. Bekevar was protestant while Kaposvar was
mainly Roman Catholic. Or look at the Kossuth Park (a vacation community
with nice little cottages) in Port Colborne, ON. This was established in
the 1960's by Hungarian-Canadians of the Kossuth Club. The DP-s would not
even go near that "communist" place. They gave me a dirty look for even
asking directions to find it.

> How would we go about founding new communities?  Would it be desirable?
> Would anyone in the diaspora actually want to live in a predominantly
> Hungarian community?  I really don't know.  However, the idea of a
> Hungarian community excites me.
> What do you think?

Take a look at the retirement communities like St Elizabeth village in
Hamilton, ON; or the Bethlen Home in Ligonier, PA; or the Lorantffy Home in
Akron, OH; or Foyer Hongrois in Montreal, QC. These are primarily for retired
people, but still they could serve as reference.

Barna Bozoki
+ - Re: The First Hungarians in America (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I have a copy of what is the seminal resource book on Hungarian migration to Au
stralia and as soon as I can spare a bit of time I will write a fuller account 
of it. It is a very interesting saga including the fact that Australia's flour 
milling industry had its basis in machinery imported from Hungary. In the 1970'
s I inspected a flour mill which still had machinery running which had been imp
orted from Hungary about a century previously. Similarly both the first mine an
d town street lighting equipment in Australia was imported from Hungary.

Regards
Dénes 



----------
From:  Barnabas Bozoki[SMTP:]
Sent:  Wednesday, 9 April 1997 5:24
To:  Multiple recipients of list HUNGARY
Subject:  Re: The First Hungarians in America

On Mon, 7 Apr 1997, Andrew J. Rozsa wrote:

> My source is the self-same now-defunct Hungarian Heritage Review. Its
> infamous demise still bugs the hell out of me. I will keep on crying foul
> until one of you RICH readers of this list ponies up the ante for a new
> (English) magazine for American Hungarians. So, please, somebody shut
> me up already!

Bandi, you have powerful allies.

Laszlo Papp the president of Western Region of the World Federation of
Hungarians in a recent article (Nemzet, 97.03.30) entitled "Milyen jovo var
a szetszortsagban elokre? -- Sziveben el a nemzet" (What is the future of
the diaspora? - A nation lives in the heart of its people) wrote the
following :

"Az erzelmi kotodesen tul az idonkenti magyarorszagi latogatas mellett, a
magyar kultura idegen nyelven valo megismerese, a magyar egyesuleti es
kozossegi kapcsolatok idegen nyelven valo apolasa lehet az a megtarto ero,
amely szorvanyainkat megmentheti a teljes beolvadastol. Ilyen celt
szolgalhatnak a magyar kultura mas nyelveken valo megjeleniteset munkalo
kiadvanyok."

(Beyond the sentimental attachment and occasional visit to Hungary, the
opportunity to learn about the Hungarian culture, or to maintain a
community spirit in foreign languages can become a force which could
preserve the diaspora from complete assimilation. Publications which
disseminate the Hungarian culture in other languages than Hungarian could
help this cause.)

Lets hope he will do more than just write about this important issue.

Barna Bozoki
+ - Re: No HUNGARY content, but it's funny (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Andrew J. Rozsa wrote:

> "We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters
> will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to
> the Internet, we know this is not true."
>

"To be or not to be, that is the question"

J.Zs

P.S: See, Andrew, don't draw a conclusion to early! :-)
+ - Re: The First Hungarians in America (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On Tue, 8 Apr 1997, jeliko wrote:

> Maybe, it happened this way.
>
<The rest of Jeliko's wonderful story is delated>

It looks like Jeliko thinks the stories of early Hungarian adventurers are
all fairy-tales. May be they are. But the stories of the Hungarian hussars
in the American Revolution should be tracable, even if they were not
national heros. For example, Poloreczky's story sounds quite realistic. If
it is true, it is worth remembering. Here it is, quoted from HHR Vol. XIX,
No.1.

     "Janos Laszlo Poloreczky settled down in the town of Dresden, Maine,
as town clerk. Now known as John Ladislaus Poloreszky, he petitioned
Congress for a veteran's pension as well as for the cost of the horse
killed beneath him at White Plains, New York. His petition, constantly
blocked by a jealous local politician, was finally granted by a special act
of Congress in 1830, the year of Poloreczky's death. While the Major did
not live to collect his money, his petition became a precedent for the
comprehensive package of benefits enjoyed by American veterans todays."

Barna Bozoki
+ - Re: No HUNGARY content, but it's funny (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 06:02 PM 4/9/97 -0400, Janos Zsargo wrote:

>Andrew J. Rozsa wrote:
>
>> "We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters
>> will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to
>> the Internet, we know this is not true."
>>
>
>"To be or not to be, that is the question"
>
>J.Zs
>
>P.S: See, Andrew, don't draw a conclusion to early! :-)

Bandi didn't jump to conclusions.  He wrote about monkeys reproducing the
works of Shakespeare.  He wasn't writing about people who could ape
Shakespeare.

Joe Szalai

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