Sam, you have the opportunity to prove that you care for
the Hungarian Nation, provided you know what will happen tomorrow.

Act today and show that you care. You will be judged by your action.

Albert Albu

Peter I. Hidas wrote:
>
> Litvan, Gyvrgy. Ed. THE HUNGARIAN REVOLUTION OF 1956; REFORM, REVOLT AND
> REPRESSION 1953-1963.  London and New York: Longman, 1996.
>
> The authors  also claim that,
> except for the notable exception of the freedom fighters, the political
> elite of the Revolution, from Imre Nagy to Bela Kiraly, most of the
> revolutionary councils, the workers' councils, the writers and most of the
> intellectuals, remained reform communists. Even Cardinal Mindszenty, the
> most vehement opponent of the communists, including Imre Nagy, spoke in his
> 3 October 1956 address to the nation about "classless society" and the
> "principle of private property limited by social concern." (p.129) During
> the last week of the uprising the street fighters forced such concessions
> from the communist leadership and Imre Nagy which provoked the Russians to
> intervene militarily  to prevent the establishment of an independent
> Hungary with a liberal-democratic regime. Between the summer of 1953 and
> October 1956 and between  (4)November 1956 and the end of 1963, the workers
> and the elite fought for a democratic socialist regime, a democracy within
> the party, albeit a one- party system, and freedom of speech and the press.
> Freedom of enterprise, that is capitalism, was rejected.


> What united the

> revolutionaries of 1956 and the reformers was the desire for national

> independence and the rejection of the Soviet model of socialism. The two

> components of the Revolution, the street fighters and the reformers

> temporarily united behind Imre Nagy, who abandoning the Bolshevik tradition

> and practices but not necessarily his Marxist faith, decided to lead all

> Magyars, socialists and nationalists.


XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
classless society
one- party system
Freedom of enterprise, that is capitalism, was rejected (REJECTED)
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX


Yes, that is the problem of Hungary, the +70% Socialist majority. As it
did in 1919, and all occasions there after the +70% leftist and
internationalist majority, HAD SOLD OUT THE NATION.

Tomorrow at Temesvar it will do just that. What a contrast between what
will happen tomorrow and the posting subject of soc.culture.magyar and
bit.list.hungary.

If there is a figure around which the Hungarian Nation is polarized that
is Reverend Tokes Laszlo. Read <mailto:>



Albert Albu

>classless society
>one- party system
>Freedom of enterprise, that is capitalism, was rejected (REJECTED)
>XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
>
>
>Yes, that is the problem of Hungary, the +70% Socialist majority. As it
>did in 1919, and all occasions there after the +70% leftist and
>internationalist majority, HAD SOLD OUT THE NATION.
>
>Tomorrow at Temesvar it will do just that. What a contrast between what
>will happen tomorrow and the posting subject of soc.culture.magyar and
>bit.list.hungary.
>
>If there is a figure around which the Hungarian Nation is polarized that
>is Reverend Tokes Laszlo. Read <mailto:>
>
>
>
>Albert Albu

The position taken in 1956 is not the position of the Hungarians of today.
In 1994 the majority of the Hungarian voters elected a social-democratic
and liberal group of MPs but, at the same time, it was understood, that the
multi-party system and the system of free enterprise will remain in effect.
Therefore, one can say, that the tradition of the street-fighters survived
but not the ideas of the reform-communist with the notable exception of
national independence. Furthermore, Tokes was never elected by the
Hungarian people to represent them and the  parties with which the Rev.
Tokes is "in harmony"  represent a tiny minority of Hungarians.

Peter I. Hidas
Montreal

In article >,  writes:

>Sam, you have the opportunity to prove that you care for
>the Hungarian Nation, provided you know what will happen tomorrow.
>
>Act today and show that you care. You will be judged by your action.
>
>Albert Albu

Judge away and be damned. I don't dance to your tune.
Sam Stowe

Born to laugh at hurricanes.

In article >,  writes:

>Tel me Sam, It huts to be a jerk?
>
>Albert Albu
>I laugh at idiots..

Doesn't hurt me a bit when you act like a jerk. In fact, flaming you keeps
me off the street and out of trouble.
Sam Stowe

Born to laugh at hurricanes.

I am going to Oroshaza, Hungary in about 12 days to work as a
volunteer executive at a company there for about one month.  My wife
is going with me.

Does anyone have any knowledge of the place that might be useful?
What to do, how much (if any) English is spoken, etc.

Please e-mail me if you do, at 

To all for your best wishes.
Andy.

 on Sat Sep 14 14:33:05 EDT 1996 in HUNGARY #790:

>Let me quote from my memoires without any further comment on the above
subject:
>
>"About this same time (1945), Rodolfo arrived to Budapest with my sister Eva
>to assume the post of the press attache at the Italian embassy. A few weeks
>later, the first charge d'affaires also arrived, a high level diplomat from
>the Italian foreign ministry. In addition to the usual formal calls to
>members of the government -the post of presidency was not yet established-
>he visited the head of the Catholic church, Cardinal Mindszenty. The
>Cardinal was ill at the time, but insisted on seeing the charge d'affaires
>and his interpreter, Rodolfo, at his hospital bedside. He began by sharply
>criticizing the provisional government, but without any specifics.
>"But what is your main complaint, your Excellency?" asked the charge
d'affaires
> .
>"They confiscated our land, land which was the property of the church for
>centuries." And he rambled on about the injustice the church has suffered by
>no longer being one of the largest landowners.
>"But are not the recipients of the land mostly Catholic landless peasants?"
>asked the charge d'affaires politely.
>The Cardinal simply ignored his question and continued his tirade against
>the government, again and again pointing out that the Church was robbed of
>its land. Nothing else interested him.
>After the visit, Rodolfo told me: "I am not a Hungarian, but as a Catholic I
>felt very uncomfortable translating the primitive and sometimes incoherent
>complaints by the Cardinal. I noticed that the charge d'affaires was shocked
>and terribly disappointed by the position of this church leader."
>
>Szegedy Sandor

I hope this Rodolfo was not the famous Hungarian circus conjurer who could
pull
rabbits out of his hat and do all kinds of other tricks? :-)  Sandor's memoir
seems
a bit shaky in its historical grounding:

1.  In 1945 Hungary was not yet a republic, so of course the presidency could
    not have been established.  It happened in 1946.

2.  Mindszenty was not a cardinal in 1945.  Seredi was.  He (Seredi) died in
that
    year, and Mindszenty was elevated in 1946.

Perhaps Sandor wrote these memoirs at a later time and his facts as well as
his
dates were adjusted for some reason other than historical accuracy.  I would
be
very interested to see any corroborative evidence of this alleged encounter.

Anyway, this anecdote adds nothing to the ongoing discussion on the
Cardinal's
address to the nation 11 (or 10) years later.  While he may have (rightly)
resented the taking of Church property without compensation after the war, in

1956 he did not demand the return of church lands.  He may have said
something
about returning the nationalized schools and the houses of religious orders,
but
that would not have been a radical demand.  In fact, such restitution is now
taking place.

I think Eva Balogh is very open-minded when she allows for the possibility of
communist brainwashing in instilling in the populationa dislike towards the
church by falsifying the text of Mindszenty's speech.  And she is right.  Of
course, the communists never published the actual text.  Now that the
original recording is available in the Radio archives, it becomes an easy
task to put those lies to rest.

(I heard the recording in 1989 and would appreciate any information
pertaining
to its availability either on tape or on the Internet.)

Ferenc

 on Sun Sep 15 11:12:31 EDT 1996 in HUNGARY #791:

>At 10:53 PM 9/14/96 -0400, Ferenc Novak wrote in connection with the name
>"Ikarusz":
>
>>Yes, we probably should care a great deal whether or not a purchaser keeps
>>the old name.  Why?  For one, a trade name by itself can be a valuable
asset
>>(under the accounting rubric of "goodwill").
>
>        What valuable asset? If I recall properly, not terribly long time
>ago there was full-blown scandal concerning some Ikarusz buses sold to
>Canada!! And by the way, Ikarusz is not exactly a household name, you know.

Actually, there are places where it is a household name.  That is called
its market.  Just how much value the name represents, we are in no position
to judge.  With a bit of capitalist marketing that value may even grow.

>>Another, even more important
>>reason is the likelihood of continued operation of the business after it is
>>acquired by a foreign buyer.  If the assets of Ikarus are bought without
the
>>name, it would be an indication that the buyer was interested in buying
only
>>the tangible assets and the market share, while perhaps intending to shut
>>down
>>the production line itself.
>
>        Well, that may happen anyway: meaning shuting down the operation.
>But if the plant had been sold the state treasury would have gotten a few
>billion dollars for it while this way it will just die on its own accord
>without any compensation whatsoever.
>
>        Eva Balogh

Of course that may happen.  Since neither of us is an expert, we can only
guess.

Ferenc

Further to the speculation about the damage done to Hungary's image as
a safe investment destination by PM Horn's cancellation of the first
agreement on the sale of HungarHotels:

HUNGARY RATED SAFE FOR INVESTMENT [Sept. 10]: A survey by
  DRI/McGraw-Hill, a division of the credit rating agency Standard &
  Poor's, found that Hungary is one of the world's safest countries to
  invest in, with regard to the danger of the state limiting foreign
  investments. The chance of central interference in the private sector
  was rated at 5% for Hungary, the third best level, on a par with
  states like the US, Switzerland, Australia and Japan as well as most
  countries of the European Union. The risk is even less, 3%, in the
  Czech Republic, Poland and Slovenia. The agency added that the
  difference is marginal, as only rates above 10% present actual danger
  to investors.
(Source: Hungary Report 2.13)

So, it would appear that Hungary is indeed perceived worse than other ex-
communist countries from the point of view of potential government
intervention.

Note, however, which countries are at the same level as Hungary.
Actually, if Hungary were at the top of the list with zero per cent I
would be just as worried as by a rating of >10 per cent.

George Antony

Separated at birth: Princess Di and Kadar Janos.  Take away the make-up
(hers, not his) and look at their smiles, then see if I'm crazy.  Too bad
he didn't go in for colonic irrigations like she did--Hungary might have
had some mellower times.

Burian